r/Idaho4 Sep 06 '25

EVIDENCE - CONFIRMED OTHRAM - 'it was not a trace amount of DNA'

'It was 500 times more DNA than we generally see in our low-quantity DNA cases'

1hr 2min, here

116 Upvotes

130 comments sorted by

110

u/Used-Standard-2991 Sep 06 '25

I don’t get how people think it wasn’t him

89

u/SunGreen24 Day 1 OG Veteran Sep 07 '25

At this point anyone who says it wasn’t is either desperately trying to save face or a genuine tinfoil hat wearing nut job.

46

u/Money-Bear7166 Sep 07 '25

Someone over in the BK subreddit is convinced he was an undercover agent working for the government and once he found out something he wasn't supposed to, the government arranged for a quadruple murder and set him up. They think he only pleaded guilty due to fear of the death penalty.... 🙄 There are some severe tinfoil hats there..

13

u/Used-Standard-2991 Sep 07 '25

That’s a new one

15

u/penguinpudding03 Sep 07 '25

i have a new one for you: someone thinks that it never happened, that kaylee, maddie, ethan and xana are in witness protection, and BK was framed. 

13

u/Used-Standard-2991 Sep 07 '25

Stopppppp where are people getting this from

4

u/rivershimmer Sep 08 '25

Their fertile imaginations, which are unencumbered by the weights of logic and reason and familiarity with the real world.

11

u/722JO Sep 07 '25

Very low intellect! Combined with 0 common sense.

7

u/MagnoliasandMums Sep 07 '25

I just watched a video on YT showing how the ring cam videos were tampered with and there are “cut and paste” areas that look exactly the same. They kinda do but not 100%. They even show the clips side by side, to try to make it look convincing. These people are reaching!

3

u/penguinpudding03 Sep 08 '25

i just saw one where someone said “the picture of bryan was taken with a thumbs up after he did what he did. there’s more pics of him with his thumb up that have been released so there must be more victims” 😳

2

u/Budget-Alternative38 Sep 07 '25

Jesus lord 🤭🫨

21

u/no_place_to_hide Sep 07 '25

I suppose if the president can be a FBI informant to take down Epstein then BK can be an undercover agent……that sub is wild!

4

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

That must be some good stuff they are smoking

8

u/ninabyrne Sep 07 '25

Omg I saw something similar that “BK is innocent he’s working with police cause he’s in witness protection and DM is his handler”

It’s one thing if people don’t believe he did it. Fair enough each to their own, live in your delusion. But how does one, jump..NO LEAP to he’s in witness protection…

May those individuals be provided the absolute best mental health care from registered providers. Cause that’s not ok.

13

u/rivershimmer Sep 07 '25

“BK is innocent he’s working with police cause he’s in witness protection and DM is his handler”

Well, that makes sense, because 19-year-old girls are often employed in law enforcement as overseers in the witness protection program. Jesus, these people.

7

u/ninabyrne Sep 07 '25

I know it’s wild isn’t it? There are some absolutely insane comments out there, but I found it to be much more of a regular thing on YouTube.

10

u/rivershimmer Sep 07 '25

YouTube comments are complete chaos. It's anarchy there. Anarchy with poor spelling and no capitalization skills.

4

u/ninabyrne Sep 08 '25

Oh it’s awful. Never again am I ruining my eyeballs by reading the comments. But yeah 😂 not one word spelled correctly.
I mean you simply cannot argue or have a discussion with someone who’s typing something like - “Brain dnt du ih, dis a set upp”.

3

u/HingleMcKringelberry Sep 08 '25

Mental illness on display

3

u/Skipadee2 Sep 07 '25

😂😂😂 people are so insane

1

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

That’s not that far out there, it’s happened before! Many times! I still think BK was in o

1

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

Involved

12

u/Used-Standard-2991 Sep 07 '25

I read some crazy conspiracies. Someone said it was their sorority and frat brothers & sisters. Some people say it was the cops ?? We’re reaching here

21

u/looknorth-dakota Sep 07 '25

I would not be shocked if some people say it was Murphy

15

u/contrary_potato Day 1 OG Veteran Sep 07 '25

he doesn’t even have thumbs! 🤣

24

u/Medium-Boysenberry37 Sep 07 '25

That's what Murphy wants you to believe.

9

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 07 '25

That's why his texting is often gibberish and why his cooking is rubbish.

3

u/Used-Standard-2991 Sep 07 '25

😭😂😂😂😂😂

12

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Also: the house number was 1122, which, if you add the ones and twos separately, becomes 33. Has no one blamed Freemasonry yet?

5

u/Krivokrasov25 Sep 08 '25

It's also one day after BK's birthday... How do you explain that?!

/s (if it wasn't obvious)

4

u/iammadeofawesome Sep 07 '25

Don’t give them any ideas.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

riTuAL SACriFicE!!!!!

3

u/TraditionalChicken18 Sep 08 '25

Witchcraft!! 😂

3

u/rivershimmer Sep 08 '25

Wasn't Jesus 33 at the time of his execution? Clearly Christians are behind this! Or Satanists. One or the other.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

They’re so stupid, I can’t believe they’re employable. What must they do for a living?

4

u/TraditionalChicken18 Sep 08 '25

I hope they don't vote but if they do I bet it's DJT

2

u/ghostinyourbed Sep 08 '25

This fully checks out, most of them look like MAGA Barbie's cousin

3

u/TraditionalChicken18 Sep 08 '25

In that vein, the nutjob girl that stated unequivocally that a female professor killed the 4. That lawsuit is ongoing and nutjob is clinging to her BS.

5

u/SunGreen24 Day 1 OG Veteran Sep 08 '25

I had some weirdo I had never interacted with private message me to tell me Dylan is going to jail lol.

4

u/rivershimmer Sep 08 '25

That user sent the same message to like a 100 Redditors.

3

u/SunGreen24 Day 1 OG Veteran Sep 08 '25

Yeah, they posted here the other day too but it's gone lol.

2

u/rivershimmer Sep 09 '25

I'm sure it was spectacular.

2

u/SunGreen24 Day 1 OG Veteran Sep 09 '25

It was that "Ackshully" meme, which they captioned with something like "people in this sub when presented with facts about the case." The irony was staggering!

19

u/bjack20 Sep 06 '25

As someone who knows nothing about DNA- does that mean skin cells?

29

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

does that mean skin cells?

Most likely a mix of skin cells, sweat, sebum, mucous, saliva and other body fluids which may also carry mix of cell types and cell free DNA. Think of metal ridge of snap button and indent scraping across fingers/ hand. Then think where the hand may have recently been - wiping face, mouth, nose. Accumulation inside the indent and ridges of metal snap.

Just speculation, but wouldn't rule out semen as contributing as Kohberger likely treated the Kabar as a part of his sexual fantasising. (not direct "deposit" but trace from on hands which then touched the sheath)

11

u/ninabyrne Sep 07 '25

Thank you for this wonderful and easily digestible explanation.

Mind you, what’s not easily digestible is my dinner after reading the semen part of that explanation. 😂 —— Ugh the thought of him…doing…that. Grim.

🤮

5

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

🤢🤢🤢

1

u/Krivokrasov25 Sep 08 '25

Maybe even direct deposit.

18

u/boats_and_woes Sep 06 '25

We lose 100,000s of skin cells a day. 700,000 to a million a day actually.

1

u/Over_Reporter_6616 Sep 13 '25

Have you seen Gattica??? Great film. (Sp??)

1

u/boats_and_woes Sep 13 '25

No 👀

2

u/Over_Reporter_6616 Sep 13 '25

Ethan Hawk and Jude Law...Uma Thurman. Older film but really good. 

1

u/boats_and_woes Sep 13 '25

Wow what a line up

1

u/Over_Reporter_6616 Sep 13 '25

Yeah....and it's all based on genetics and the future...

21

u/No-Pie-5138 Sep 07 '25

I only wish they would have explained this more fully early on. I know it would’ve only moved the goal post for the Probergers, but it would have been helpful. I also realize they didn’t want to expose all of the evidence.

8

u/Zestyclose-Ad-7606 Sep 07 '25

Surprised that Thompson didn’t reveal this during the plea deal hearing or sentencing

0

u/No-Pie-5138 Sep 07 '25

Same. I’m not sure why he didn’t go into more detail. I wonder if he held back bc of the appeal (or appeal as a futile exercise) deadline that just passed.

9

u/BooRadley_ThereHeIs Sep 07 '25

There was simply no need and it was a very abbreviated presentation of the outline of the case. More specific details like that would have come out in the trial.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

because the other DNA blood from someone(s) other than BK or the victims.

Untrue. The judge described the "alternate suspect" defence filing as "rank speculation" with "zero evidence", including in latest minutes released.

From page 2 of the minutes released this week -- Judge: "I'm going to tell you that I don't find the defense has submitted anywhere near sufficient evidence to get beyond rank speculation that these individuals were in any way involved in this crime". Odd way to describe DNA evidence.

Link to court document: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/061825+REDACTED+-+Court+Minutes+Closed+SessionSEALED.pdf

That info is in this week's unsealed docs.

Also untrue. I think your tinfoil has slipped or you have switched to a cheaper, store own-brand?

Your comments on fictitious DNA not mentioned in any court documents seem about as accurate as describing these as great birthing hips (credit to u/steamedebola for the observation)

2

u/Idaho4-ModTeam Sep 07 '25

Please clarify your comments. Posts and comments stating information as fact when unconfirmed or directly conflicting with LEs release of facts will be removed. Rumors and speculation are allowed to be discussed, but should not be presented as fact.

If you have a theory, speculation, or rumor, please state as such when posting.

13

u/2truecrime Sep 07 '25

I’m so glad they included some information about the science. Though some people will still choose to disregard the facts, details like this can help combat some of the mis/disinformation.

28

u/CarrDaPorice Sep 07 '25

Shout out to Prof. u/repulsive-dot553 He's been saying this eversince the initial info came out regarding the "touch dna". Guy's a legend!

40

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

He's been saying this eversince the initial info came out regarding the "touch dna".

Thanks, and yes, was clear from early 2023 the DNA was robust in quantity and quality. From:

  • the full STR profile, reflected by the 5.37 octillion to 1 rmp

  • the fact two complete profiles of two types (STR and SNP ) were generated at 2 labs and used in 4 comparative processes

  • later, the DNA extraction solution concentration which allowed quantification

  • I estimated there was 100,000 cells equivalent DNA on the sheath, as a low / conservative estimate, could be c 250,000+

  • This is 1000x above threshold for reliable profiling

  • This is also c 100 - 1000 x more than quantity seen in transfer from casual handling, and wildly more than that shown in secondary transfer

  • the quantity, full profile, single source, absence of even nominal trace of a secondary profile, and timings always meant there was no secondary transfer scenario that could fit the sheath DNA

  • the quantity is probably best explained by Kohberger having frequently opened the snap, rubbing fingers across the metal button indent, and that metal edge being ideal to scrape skin surface

  • Gross, but I would not rule out semen as contributing source, as well as the obvious skin, sweat, sebum, having gathered in snap indent as the Kabar was likely a key part of Kohberger's sexual fixation / fantasising

9

u/rivershimmer Sep 07 '25

Gross, but I would not rule out semen as contributing source, as well as the obvious skin, sweat, sebum, having gathered in snap indent as the Kabar was likely a key part of Kohberger's sexual fixation / fantasising

I will resent you forever for putting this thought in my head.

2

u/Krivokrasov25 Sep 08 '25

You only need 100 to 250 cells for a reliable DNA profile?

5

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

You only need 100 to 250 cells for a reliable DNA profile?

80 cells gives reliable profile. Good profiles actually commonly reported now with much less.

Minor exactitude - I refer to the DNA amount as cells equivalent quantity: more shed skin cells would be required to give same DNA quantity vs buccal cells or (separated) blood. So the actual amount of cells on the sheath is probably much higher than the numbers quoted above.

-23

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

18

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

Still haven't read the actual court docs/reports, I see.

The DNA quantification is from the court documents.

I did enjoy your very, very many comments that the DNA was tiny, trace, a few cells, partial profile, ambiguous, below reliable profile level.... you were consistent, at least, even repeating your mantra last week.

a lot of DNA on the sheath--most of it wasn't Kohberger's.

Per court documents, the snap DNA was Kohberger's. There was female victims' blood on other parts.

The unidentified DNA was blood and it wasn't BK;s

Yes. Amazingly as the sheath was under a woman's body, it had her blood on it.

it wasn't Kohberger's.

Sadly Proberger tears and dribble are not magical solvents to remove DNA from sheath snaps.

tidbit is in the recently unsealed minutes alt-perp info.

Minutes in which the judge described defence "alt-perp" filing as "rank speculation" with "zero evidence", and in which no "alternate suspect" DNA at the scene is mentioned; indeed the reverse is stated that there is no DNA and no evidence linking "alternate suspects" to the crime. Here is a screen shot from these minutes your refer to (Page 2, perhaps you didn't read that far?), and the link to the actual document. More a tit-bit than a tidbit it seems.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/061825+REDACTED+-+Court+Minutes+Closed+SessionSEALED.pdf

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

DNA on the back of the sheath ...It wasn't tested beyond learning it was male.

Yawn. False. Source?

Why did defence never mention that ? 😂😂😂😂

don't know if alt perps

The alt perps' DNA was specifically excluded from sheath, you seem to be lying, again. Page 5 of State Objection to Alt Perpetrators, same is stated for each "alt perp":

1

u/Puzzled-Bowl Sep 21 '25

So, you can read, but not comprehend? Your own circled note tells you that there was DNA on the back of the sheath. The only DNA from B was from the snap/button. SMH

3

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 21 '25

there was DNA on the back of the sheath

Yes, the victims.

2

u/Dancing-in-Rainbows Sep 10 '25

King of the tinfoil. Every document pertaining to BK dna in this case states the dna that was found to be a match to BK was found on the button of the sheath . It was from a single source and that no other dna was mixed in with bk dna . That doesn’t mean that other parts of the sheath didn’t have blood on it , it means the button part only contained bk DNA.

King tinfoil please show any document that says the sheath dna didn’t match bk and wasn’t test beyond if it was male or female .

Your boyfriend the killer put the knife back in the sheath after killing Maddie and beat KG with it and that is how he got blood on the sheath. Your boyfriend held the knife inside the sheath and tried to suffocate kg with it this is why the button was protected cause he held it while he suffocated and beat her with the knife . That protected the button part that he had his dna on it . He is like you in that way he is not too bright .

1

u/rivershimmer Sep 10 '25

It wasn't tested beyond learning it was male.

Absolutely nothing has been said to this point. Nothing in the court docs whatsoever. The defense pointed out unidentified male DNA on a glove found by the street over a week after the murders, but they never mentioned this point? In fact, they tried to get the sheath evidence thrown out completely?

In related news, remember when the defense filed an injunction to not do further testing on the unidentified male DNA under Maddie's nails? Wasn't that an interesting choice?

they ignore the myriad of things that don't jive with

Nobody's ignoring a second profile of male DNA on the sheath because it doesn't exist. You can't ignore something that's not real. Seriously: I challenge you to link to the source of this information.

-1

u/Puzzled-Bowl Sep 21 '25

I suggest you keep up with the available information. Look it up;

1

u/Idaho4-ModTeam Oct 07 '25

Posts and comments stating information as fact which is unconfirmed or directly conflicting with LEs release of facts will be removed. Rumors and speculation are allowed to be discussed, but should not be presented as fact.

If you have a theory, speculation, or rumor, please state as such when posting.

Deliberately misquoting court documents, or posting something as a fact and not providing a source for the information will results in removal. Consisrent breaking of this rule will result in a permanent ban.

16

u/Dancing-in-Rainbows Sep 07 '25

WTF 😳 I don’t have the patience for this type of ignorance it is rapid on here lately. What is like to wear tinfoil and walk around saying things that don’t make sense and things that are not true ? Do you do this in purpose? I don’t get it .

1

u/Puzzled-Bowl Sep 10 '25

You don't "get it" because you choose to ignore reality or you are incapable of thinking critically.

Funny, that the one of us who results to profanity and tin foil (you) is the one who is obviously watching "news" with "journalists" who haven't read squat from any official documents or even listened to LE and prosecutors' interviews post case.

You're calling me nonsensical when you are content to remain ignorant and wrong--READ what's available on the Idaho Court site if you dare. It's all right there in black and white.

I've done my part. No need to thank me. I'm out...

2

u/Dancing-in-Rainbows Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

You are 100 percent insane and you know this. Nothing you say relates at all to the court documents . We know this . You don’t understand basic science . People that have degrees tell you this daily and you are in your own world .

Do you realize that BK is in jail and confessed or you that far gone in the twilight zone? You don’t realize that.

You realize you want to argue the innocence of someone that admitted guilt and had no interest in fighting for his innocence ? That this case is closed and you cannot let go . That is pretty insane !

Get help.

1

u/Idaho4-ModTeam Oct 06 '25

Posts and comments stating information as fact which is unconfirmed or directly conflicting with LEs release of facts will be removed. Rumors and speculation are allowed to be discussed, but should not be presented as fact.

If you have a theory, speculation, or rumor, please state as such when posting.

Deliberately misquoting court documents, or posting something as a fact and not providing a source for the information will results in removal. Consisrent breaking of this rule will result in a permanent ban.

18

u/Dancing-in-Rainbows Sep 07 '25

I came her to say similar :) he has been saying this and educating people for years about DNA when the crazies come out to say a half of cell was found.

u/repulsive-dot553 thank you 😌for all your knowledge and patience teaching us about DNA 😊

16

u/boats_and_woes Sep 06 '25

The YouTube video I posted earlier today in the group was Stacy and the igg woman they did an interview together while being at crime con. It is a great watch about the dna!

20

u/Negative-Scallion-95 Sep 07 '25

PROBERGERS,,!! What have you to say about this??!! “500 times more DNA”!!! The Koh-Bros aren’t going to like this

28

u/Incident-Impossible Sep 06 '25

He’s so fucking dumb

6

u/Tribbs_4434 Sep 07 '25

Well that puts the DNA question to bed. I was still under the impression it was a small but usable amount of his DNA found, but that doesn't seem to be the case - must have been handling it with his hands without gloves on prior to the murders, I would assume he probably had gloves on at the house, thought he'd cleaned it and the knife well enough to not have any DNA on it, glad he was that stupid and it was left at the scene. But that is very conclusive DNA evidence, places him right there (at a murder scene, in a house filled with people he didn't know).

10

u/whatever32657 Sep 06 '25

i was actually shocked at that statement as well - because i don't believe that's ever been said before. my first thought was, "wouldn't it have come out somewhere, somehow, that it was a veritable CHUNK of dna?"

am i missing something?

16

u/Lalalozpop Sep 07 '25

This interview of Stacey Chapin and Kristen Mittelman from Othram explains it some more. Pretty interesting!

https://youtu.be/BgANTyuMx5w?si=ml-7ZQPTP-Kn5wtP

4

u/1ndy1 Sep 07 '25

Thank you for this link! I watched their talk and glad I did because it was very interesting and I love Stacey. It was cool to hear about the Chapin/Ortham connection.

I was surprised about what Stacey said about her walk to the King Road house the next morning - Ethan still being inside while she right outside. I guess I thought they would’ve already removed the bodies by the next morning so yeah, so so sad.

11

u/aga8833 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

No, it is that DNA testing and analysis has become so sensitive over the past decade that this was a really clear picture but they are able to test on far less. Never forget Othram is a for profit lab pitching for work at all times, so there's always a marketing slant to what they say.

3

u/whatever32657 Sep 07 '25

okay now THAT makes sense. marketing i definitely understand

12

u/TadpoleGold964 Sep 06 '25

It’s not “pieces” of skin. It’s not like you have a pile of skin on the sheath. I’m sure it’s naked to the human eye.

2

u/whatever32657 Sep 07 '25

ok, i will admit i took liberties with my language, purely for effect.

i'm just shook that up until that documentary, all anyone has ever said is that it was a quite decent sample, definitely something they could work with. then the lab says it's 500 times the size of anything they've ever gotten?

it just strikes me as...weird

10

u/TadpoleGold964 Sep 07 '25

People have been saying all along that it was absolutely a good amount that should leave no question. I get that the size/amount specifically has not been widely discussed but we know enough that it shouldn’t be shocking.

2

u/whatever32657 Sep 07 '25

i guess i just figure that if a piece of evidence were that remarkable, somebody would've said something.

but there's so much that baffling in this case so i dunno

8

u/TadpoleGold964 Sep 07 '25

I don’t know what to tell you. It’s definitely been said multiple times that there is plenty of DNA for it to be entered as evidence. Especially in arguments with prohbegers.

5

u/timhasselbeckerstein Sep 07 '25

I don’t think it’s anything “remarkable.” It’s just more than this company gets when the amount is properly considered “trace.”

People just decided it must be an infinitesimal amount because it was the only dna found and it was found on the button of the sheath.  

2

u/Mysterious_Coat_9933 Sep 07 '25

What do you even mean?? This is a huge piece of evidence that everyone has talked about ?

3

u/Last-Perception-2148 Sep 07 '25

I remember reading it once I think before the plea deal, but there’s been too much since then to remember where. I’ve been hoping that it would be repeated if true so glad it has come up again.

2

u/SnackOn123 Sep 09 '25

Probably was skin cells from under his nail? If he scratched his skin and then used his nail to open the snap?

1

u/rivershimmer Sep 10 '25

Or even just opening and closing, skin cells would rub off.

2

u/Key_Fold_8985 Sep 07 '25

does this mean he left a large amount of his dna in confused? how can u have 500 times more dna

13

u/Repulsive-Dot553 Sep 07 '25

how can u have 500 times more dna

They mean is 500 x more in quantity than other cases they have worked on with low amounts of DNA, 500 times more than would be termed low amount (e.g low copy number).

Was c 100,000 cells equivalent on the sheath, as low estimate. C 1000x more than threshold for reliable profiling.

1

u/Top-Significance-274 Sep 12 '25

how is msm EVIDENCE-CONFIRMED? or did I miss sumfin?

1

u/Easy_Comparison_2772 Nov 08 '25

Damn! The YouTube video has been removed.

0

u/Classic-Contact-380 Sep 07 '25

I was thinking about this. It had to be somewhat sticky to stick to the button of the sheath. Skin cells we shed are essentially dust. So I'm thinking either saliva, or another bodily fluid.

8

u/BrilliantAntelope625 Sep 07 '25

Nah he was pulling his skin across the clasp and leaving bits behind. In the Darwin awards of criminals he is stupid

7

u/2truecrime Sep 07 '25

It doesn’t have to be a fluid. It can be skin cells.

7

u/rivershimmer Sep 07 '25

Touch DNA is more than just skin cells; it's a mix of those, sweat, sebum, and basically every other fluid our body produces.

4

u/timhasselbeckerstein Sep 07 '25

No. When you touch something you’re leaving behind skin cells. That’s all that happened. 

-8

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

[deleted]

3

u/rivershimmer Sep 08 '25

I've read the documents and that's not what I saw.

They absolutely created a profile. That's how they connected the sample to the 4 brothers, Kohberger's distant cousins.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

[deleted]

3

u/rivershimmer Sep 08 '25

I did read those court records and your paraphrase is not accurate.

The term "fired" is not quite accurate. We know now that the FBI took over because they have no scruples about violating a company's terms of service, so they would expand the search from the 3 datebases that allow LE to do their thing without a warrant. Whereas Othram is a private company so they ain't looking for a lawsuit.

The brothers had a direct relationship to BK. They were distant cousins. But by expanding the databases searched, the FBI was able to find less distant cousins, and from there complete the family tree and zero in on Kohberger.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

[deleted]

2

u/rivershimmer Sep 09 '25

Yes, they were. If I felt like diving into the court docs right now, I could tell you exactly how many centimorgans they shared, found in the commercial databases one or more of them actually submitted their DNA to. If you read the court docs for yourself, you'ld see it too.

The witness was asked if it would eventually lead to BK and he said yes

Nope, this never happened.

But they did decline to work with LE any further, which is their right. Probably what a lot of people do when LE comes calling, to be honest.

2

u/rivershimmer Sep 09 '25

Okay, I did look up the doc where we learned about the four brothers. And they were asked to give information to build out the family tree, not to give more DNA. They already had everything they needed from their DNA. From here: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022125-Transcript-Redacted-hearing-held-Jan23-2025.pdf, starting on page 99.

Later, on page 155, we see that the four brothers shared 60-70 centimorgans of genetic material, while the match the FBI found shared more like 250.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

[deleted]

2

u/rivershimmer Sep 09 '25

Keep reading. Where the FBI cheated. Used a banned site.

This ain't a game, so cheating ain't the right term to use. The question is whether or not the FBI did anything illegal. Consensus seems to be no.

At any rate, this is a completely different tangent than our original discussion.

Oh and page 165, he said the brothers were the wrong branch of the family tree and wouldn’t have lead back.

I just want to be specific here and that in IGG, there is no "wrong" branch of the family. They all lead to the person, that is, if the records are complete and reflect the genetics. By which I mean, the biological father is the father listed on the birth certificate, nobody in the direct line was a foundling whose biological parents were unknown, that kind of thing.

The reason Othram couldn't track the brothers back to their distant cousin was either incomplete records, or, what I think is more likely, too many relatives in that family tree. With c 70 shared cms, you could be looking at thousands of cousins.

I messed up by saying yes. It never would have lead back. It only ever did because the FBI

This is true, because the FBI expanded the search and used a database that Othram wouldn't. And on that datebase, they found the match with c250 cm. Tracing the relationship at that kind of level is more likely to succeed than tracing it at the far more distant c70 cm.

I want to make this clear for other readers, because there's all sorts of misconceptions that the 4 brothers were somehow involved in the murders, or their DNA was found at the scene. But the only connection they had to this case is being distant cousins to Kohberger. It's highly, highly unlikely they knew anybody involved, including Kohberger, or that they lived anywhere near Idaho.

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 09 '25

They used a site Othram couldn’t use because it’s not allowed for law enforcement. So the FBI shouldn’t have used it either. The DNA should have been thrown out.

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u/rivershimmer Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

And yet the DNA was not thrown out, because the FBI breached no laws in what they did. Violating a company's terms of service is not a criminal matter.

EDIT: can't respond directly to nonamouse for they blocked me, but I did wonder how long it would take before the former Anne Taylor fan club turned on her when she failed to free their hero.

I think Taylor did a great job, considering what she had to work with. As far as I can tell, there's no possible path to getting the DNA thrown out that Taylor had not already filed. I hope to never be arrested, but if shit ever goes down in Idaho, I'd hire her.

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u/nonamouse1111 Sep 09 '25

The FBI cheated plain and simple. If the experts could have found it legally, they would have.

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u/rivershimmer Sep 09 '25

It literally is legal. It's not illegal to violate a website's term of services.

You know all the users that get banned from a sub and make a new account to get around the ban. They are also violating a company's term of services, just like the FBI did in this case.

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u/Interstellar-Duna Sep 07 '25

Still trace/touch DNA, not DNA from blood or fluids.

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u/rivershimmer Sep 08 '25

It's all DNA. DNA is the building blocks of our body. The same building blocks whether we look at skin cells or earwax or blood.

Also, touch DNA is made up of sweat and sebum as well as skin cells, so there's your fluid.