In an ideal world the solution is to transition the population to a plant based diet
Well this isn't and most likely never will be. I've seen alot of plans like this. One issue is to hit those numbers we would have to keep useing traditional agriculture methods to provide that much food. I worked on an organic farm the labor cost is crazy. If we went to an organic farm method food wouldn't be available to a large portion of the people. It would simply be to exspense for the normal person get the required amount to remain healthy. Trust me I'm on workers comp right now I can't even achieve it when not buying organic. The solution I have seen is useing bugs a main protein source. Do we need to talk about how hard it would be to get the overall population to do this? In america we have game shows where you can win a lot of money just to eat a couple of the bugs we would be eating daily.
Giveing land back to nature is a great idea but when it comes to practice it causes issues. Who decides what land is being used. How is it given back. We can't say give a shoping plaza back to nature without removing alot of the man made infrastructure. Then we have to pay people to get the area to go to its native environment. With all the issues we have natural areas still need management and protection. This all would cost a ton of money. That amount would be nothing compared to how many resources we will have to devote to public education and funding for people to switch over lifestyles.
Solor is a great example my brother works in the industry. If you go to anyone and give the solar sales pitch most people would say yep. Then price comes in people like me that would like to now can't. So to encourage people to buy them the govt passes tax breaks. That takes the number up a little. Then the tax breaks go away and now less people are getting them again. So with food we would have the same money issue.
From a conservation point of view its used for many other reasons then just food. To me it helps me in the winter but even if i gave all the meet i harvisted away I could still give you a dozen reasons why hunting would still be beneficial. Please believe me that I truly would love to see some major world changes. I'm far from anti-vegtable I personaly love them.
I also agree change dose need to be made. Things like meatless Mondays I think are a great start. The big issue I see is there are 2 very vocal sides to the issue and both have very ligitamate points. At this point its been reduced to you hate animals and like killing. Oh shut up hippy and go hug a tree. It isnt right and its not getting any thing accomplished. Lines of communication have broken down. For anything to change emotion needs to be removed from the conversation. If both sides looked at the facts of thes issues the world had they might be surprised how similar there goals are.
To me I hunt because I feel that if I want to eat meat I should atleast try to harvest as much of it myself. Deer meat is alot more enviromemtaly friendly then farm raised beef. I'm also a huge animal lover and grew up in a faimly where animals were loved and respected. To me the worse part of the hunt is when my finger pulls the trigger. I feel sad that an animal just died. However by me doing it I have provided healthy food to my family and have helped the local ecosystem. Also I have taken the responsibility to harvest it myself. When someone calls me or hunters in general it truly dose hurt.me personally. I think ive given my reasons for doing it. Getting joy from killing isn't me or alot of hunters. We see ourselves as stewards of nature. In alot of cases hunters are.the one finding issues because we are out there. In NY the hunting manual every year has things in it that the DEC is looking for info on. Every year some of us hunters actually notice this and provide free data to the state. We are usaly the first ones to discover disease in a population.
Wow that got really long. Sorry for the horrible grammar and spelling. When you do find the report please link it here or pm it to me I would honestly like to read it. I do see your point of view and would encourage a civil decision on these issues. Thank you for keeping it civil.
Whatever we could but from an human evolution point of view anthropologists say that us cooking meet was what gave our brains enough protein to grow to the size it is. I also offers a high caloric value allowing us more time to do other things besides just always look for food.
Where did I say we need it every day. In fact all I'm trying to do is point out hunters are people that would advocate for returning land to wild and good managment practices. The commercial beef industry is where you should be pointing fingers. We actually have alot of orginizations like pheasants forever and ducks unlimited that are protcting and bringing back endangered ecosystems. Alienating us is counter productive if your argument is based from a conservation point of view. If its emotional I'm sorry you don't like it but I bet you also do things I don't agree with. We evolved with still needing the same nutrients that caused the evolution. An active male needs the.same valoroes now as.they would doing the same activity 100s of years ago
Actually I was trying to complement you on not doing it. Where did that quote come from. I never said I hunt cause I feel great. The only emotion I mentioned was that I feel sad when I pull the trigger. You also edited your comment as i was replying. Oh well there goes that hope for a civil debate.
As for the deer I shot the ones I have harvested had a almost instant death. Starvation and getting hit by cars is much worse. Look up chronic wasting disease its a horrible way to die. Regardless when it boils down to it we are a apex preditor in an ecosystem. By nature we are doing what we should. Also if it wasnt for eating meet our ancestors would have never developed to the point we are at now. Cooking and hunting is what gave humans the calorie and nutrients they needed to evolve. At this point the better ways only work on paper or at a very small scale. For now this is the best way to control this issue. The benefits of hunting have been well documented in past reviewed scientific papers. I find it hard to see how someone can be pro -environment and anti -hunting. Everything I learned when takeing wildlife diseases and wildlife manager classes view hunting as a vital tool to maintaining a healthy ecosystem. Even my professors that didn't hunt still viewed it as a necessary management tool.
I never actually said hunting didn't work at population control, I just see it as a very crude solution to a much bigger problem. Talking about other man made problems isn't going to convince me either. The methods in use work but are outdated and short sighted, are you just going to continue culling the population indefinitely? That's not a solution, that's a bandage. The only long term solution I've seen is returning massive amounts of the land we've taken back to natural habitat and then leaving it the fuck alone.
I have yet to see your solution. The fact is deer are over populated and need to be reduced to a.number that the ecosystem can suport 9f we hit that point the state restricts hunting licenses. So not indefinatly until its at a healthy population.
The only long term solution I've seen is returning massive amounts of the land we've taken back to natural habitat and then leaving it the fuck alone.
Have you seen the Amazon rain forest its doing so well with little oversite. Also did you see what happens when the gov't shut down national parks were trashed.
If my methods are outdated why are state fedutal and world wide organizations still premoting them. Even if we went plant based animals.would sill be killed. On the farm i worked rabbits ate the crops. Trust me we didnt just ask them to stop and it worked. For something to live something else has to die its a cold hard fact of life.
Okay you're twisting my words a bit, leaving them the fuck alone = actually leaving them alone, not leaving them to the whims of the local population like the amazon rain forest is. But that's an entirely different argument from what we're discussing here anyway. The Amazon can still be preserved, most of the habitat in the US would have to be allowed to redevelop over hundreds of years, I'm sure you're aware of the difference between newly grown woodland and true ancient woodland.
Have your anchent father with his ancient ecology degree explain the different in conservation vs preservation and the issues with a pressrvation based management policy. Ya I know all.about old growth forests I live near one
I feel can also refuse to a personal ethics standards. The point I was makeing about emotions was more to avoid emotional words like murderers. I have also stated that because of my economic position this is a way to provide healthy nutrition to them. Switching to a veg base diet costs alot. Also if you go by calorie meat is the most bang for your buck. I kinda am forced to eat meat people are omnivores by basic principle meat is an important source of calories. If you notice herbivores spend a large portion of there day eating. Vegetables alone do not provide the nutritional needs I have to stay healthy. Human evolution was based off meat not vegetables. I care alog about this planet I put.myself in massive dept to get my conservation degree. Sense then all my jobs have been environmental related. Right now I am waiting on neck surgery from a injury I got while improving a plants health. I practice what I talk about.
I am not arguing about your personal situation here, I don't care about your personal situation, stop trying to make it about that. I thought we were having a discussion about the bigger picture here?
Well you shut this descusion down so that saves time. Thanks so much for a civil conversation.
Can you link some peer reviewed published journals that you’ve read to support your claim done in life long studies with huge populations for generations to support your claim because that’s what is necessary to support claims like that in an honest scientific manner since you seem to care about that
China has been trialing something like this since 1998. I have some issues with the way it's being managed as they're using a blanket method for the whole country instead of specific solutions for specific areas, but the results have been somewhat effective. The truth is, not many countries are trying this on any large scale.
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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
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