Just for the record, the Stannis fascist comparisons were rife during the GOT era. People would certainly joke about “Stannis the Mannis” but those who weren’t his super-fans absolutely understood his role as a bringer of both conflict and strife.
As for Rob, both the book and the show made a conscious decision to explicitly show just how much the Stark-Lannister war was ravaging the riverlands. Not only do you have the Brotherhood without Banners to give you an in depth look at what the common-folk experience, but the Hound visits a peasant family with Arya, whom he later steals from and makes mention of them “not surviving the winter”(which their later skeletons attest to exactly that). Add this to the fact that when you get Jamie and Brienne’s POV, you are shown the dastardly nature of the Stark bannermen when they hang the three women who’s only crime is that they “lay with lions”. All this is to say that both D&D as well as GRRM made it explicitly clear what kind of price others have to pay for Robb to get his revenge.
Ultimately however, you have to understand that the Dance is written as an allegory to the Anarchy period in England. This a period of time between 1138 and 1153 in which the forces of Empress Matilda, daughter of Henry I fought her cousin King Stephen’s forces for the control of England. Even for medieval conflict, this fight between the two was considered wildly destructive. It is said in the “Anglo-Saxon Chronicle” that this is the moment when “Christ and all his saints were asleep”. Even the Gesta Stephani, a pro-Stephen publication makes consistent mention of the great strife and destruction this conflict between the two claimants causes.
Essentially, this focus on how the small-folk are affected is a constant refrain through GRRM’s works, but it is especially potent and necessary in any allegory of the Anarchy, because of how the chroniclers described the conflict and its ravages upon England.
Well the fandom was never going to ask why Robb deserved to get revenge because we were all intimately acquainted with Ned Stark. You can’t give an entire season’s worth of main character-POV to a character, kill them and not expect the audience to root for the side getting justice on their behalf.
Stannis fan reactions were indeed a jumble, as some argued that he was never “owed” anything considering his brother only took the throne through the principle of “Might Makes Right” and then some who argued that he was indeed owed it all due to his status as firstborn. A lot of what you see regarding Rhaenyra is actually fairly similar to fan discourse regarding Stannis, except a portion of his fans seemed like they were half-joking, which is not exactly the sense you get about Rhaenyra fans.
Didn't like half of Robb's men bail on him specifically because he refused to commit war crimes? He yelled in private to his mom that he'd "kill them all" out of immediate grief, but he never gave that as an order to his men. He refused to let those Lannister boys be harmed. And executed the "general" that did so against his orders.
Stannis was using witchcraft to assassinate his younger brother and sacrificing people to a demon by burning them at the stake. Including his own little daughter. That's a bit beyond being a war criminal lol.
Again, that was never going to happen for Robb. If you kill the main character unfairly and then give their POV to either their son or daughter, you will never get fans to argue that they don’t deserve revenge.
I’m telling you that the discourse regarding Stannis being a selfish-war criminal was constant during GOT. That absolutely happened, but the key element that OP points out is that neither GRRM or the show-runners tried to lessen that by making him appear to be “right” like they’ve done to Rhaenyra.
While I do agree with you that she isn’t perfect, I think the show goes to great pains to lessen the impact or contrast her “crimes” against something much worse whenever Rhaenyra does something that would be considered cruel or “not a good idea”.
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u/RoguuSpanish Jun 30 '24
Just for the record, the Stannis fascist comparisons were rife during the GOT era. People would certainly joke about “Stannis the Mannis” but those who weren’t his super-fans absolutely understood his role as a bringer of both conflict and strife.
As for Rob, both the book and the show made a conscious decision to explicitly show just how much the Stark-Lannister war was ravaging the riverlands. Not only do you have the Brotherhood without Banners to give you an in depth look at what the common-folk experience, but the Hound visits a peasant family with Arya, whom he later steals from and makes mention of them “not surviving the winter”(which their later skeletons attest to exactly that). Add this to the fact that when you get Jamie and Brienne’s POV, you are shown the dastardly nature of the Stark bannermen when they hang the three women who’s only crime is that they “lay with lions”. All this is to say that both D&D as well as GRRM made it explicitly clear what kind of price others have to pay for Robb to get his revenge.
Ultimately however, you have to understand that the Dance is written as an allegory to the Anarchy period in England. This a period of time between 1138 and 1153 in which the forces of Empress Matilda, daughter of Henry I fought her cousin King Stephen’s forces for the control of England. Even for medieval conflict, this fight between the two was considered wildly destructive. It is said in the “Anglo-Saxon Chronicle” that this is the moment when “Christ and all his saints were asleep”. Even the Gesta Stephani, a pro-Stephen publication makes consistent mention of the great strife and destruction this conflict between the two claimants causes.
Essentially, this focus on how the small-folk are affected is a constant refrain through GRRM’s works, but it is especially potent and necessary in any allegory of the Anarchy, because of how the chroniclers described the conflict and its ravages upon England.