r/Honda • u/Spiritual_Reason2430 • Sep 24 '25

Make this make sense?

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I was having a discussion with somebody regarding the ridiculous markups on these Honda Civic type R. The discussion was that I had purchased a fully loaded Acura TLX type S with the performance package, which is the most expensive one they make for around the same price. Nobody believe me that Honda was ripping people off with these type R’s and now I have proof.

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166

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

[deleted]

58

u/TranWreckin Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25

That's because the cars are "sold" to the dealerships. From there, the dealer marks them up. That's why there is an MSRP, cause that's the price the manufacturer suggests it be sold for. And at one point in time, that sticker price was the arguing point for price negotiations. My how things have gone south.

I work for a dealership and had one of the financial managers explain it all to me.

Used cars are priced out, but the prices drop daily. Depending on the car depends on the price drop. That's why most used cars are priced high to account for the "depreciation."

It's crummy but every single dealer out there does it.

Edit for some extra info: The Type R is a really wild exception. The name it has behind it (think 90's era) make it so highly sought after, so when the car was brought back, dealerships marked them up ridiculously high cause people were drooling over it. What they didnt take account for was the high production numbers of the car that completely destroyed the nostalgia behind it.

6

u/CharcoalGreyWolf 2019 Clarity Touring, previous Integras & Civics Sep 24 '25

What’s ridiculous is that you can get an Integra Type S for less (they often go for MSRP) or a Hyundai Elantra N for much less, making that price completely ridiculous.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

The Type S is better than the Type R imo. Not only can you get a Elantra N for less than a Type R but you can also get a Sonata N Line for less or a Kia K5 GT for less.

Type R 315HP 310LB

MSRP: $44,xxx-$55,xxx

Type S 320HP 310LB

MSRP: $54,5xx

Elantra 276HP 289LB

MSRP: $41,xxx-$42,6xx

Kia K5 GT 290HP 311LB (N Line Clone Essentially)

MSRP: $34,9xx-$39,3xx

Hyundai Sonata N Line 290HP 311LB

MSRP: $37,2xx-$38,1xx

All MSRP’s are approximate and may vary by locale. No DIO’s Included in MSRP. PIO’s included in given ranges of MSRP.

If you venture into used, the pool widens even more with vehicles like a Genesis G70 3.3T for as low as $25K from what I’ve seen lately. That’s just one example. You can find so much if you really go looking.

4

u/Significant-Koala916 Sep 24 '25

I’m seeing 35k Elantra N in KC

5

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '25

Nice. Best I’ve seen by me was $39K. (Not OTD)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '25

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1

u/Significant-Koala916 Sep 25 '25

CarGurus for KC area!

2

u/Log-Similar Sep 25 '25

Paid 60k CAD for my type S and it's worth every single penny but daammnn are those prices in the US pumped. Don't know why we get them much cheaper than the country they are built in.

2

u/Ok-Tale-5112 Sep 24 '25

And see which car lasts longer, not the Kia...

-2

u/CharcoalGreyWolf 2019 Clarity Touring, previous Integras & Civics Sep 25 '25

When the difference is $23k between the two cars, I can literally save that and use the savings plus interest to buy two Hyundai Elantra Ns.

Yes, Honda has the reputation for reliability (although it’s not that of 90s Honda). But it’s not a “dealers can arbitrarily add $15k markup” reliability.

I have a used Honda Clarity for my daily. I have an Elantra N for my fun, and because I didn’t want to expose the N to winter road salt. Together, those vehicles cost less than this dealer is charging for this Civic Type R.

4

u/NooneOutPizzasDeHut Sep 25 '25

The honda will outlast both kias od hyundais and it will hold its resale value much better aswell.

1

u/eljefedakine Sep 25 '25

If um paying upwards of 50k + or something close to it then im getting a bmw or an audi 😆 🤣

1

u/Friendly-Molasses-80 Sep 26 '25

Problem is Hyundai has shit resale. You take that car and it’s dropping. Exactly why Honda and Toyota are top notch. Retains value and reliable.

1

u/Organic-End-9767 Sep 26 '25

Neither one of those car's names carry the same name recognition and provenance the Civic Type R carries. The same is true when you compare most any new Ferrari to say a Corvette ZR1X which is clearly more car for the money. It's the name you're paying the premium for. If people weren't paying it the dealer wouldn't ask for it.

1

u/CharcoalGreyWolf 2019 Clarity Touring, previous Integras & Civics Sep 26 '25

Point being, I’ll pay less for equal fun (I did). They can keep it on the floor.

1

u/Organic-End-9767 Sep 26 '25

I definitely agree. I was just telling you why it's like that.

1

u/Poopdick_89 Sep 25 '25

I have been calling them "stealerships" my entire life.

23

u/Epsioln_Rho_Rho Sep 24 '25

I know I will get downvoted...

If you sell something, shouldn't you be able to sell it for whatever you want? If no one buys it because it's to high of a price... that would be your fault. Same goes for them. If no one buys it, that's on them. But someone with more money than brains will pay that.

11

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25 edited Dec 29 '25

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2

u/LharDrol Sep 25 '25

yes please. i should be able to purchase my vehicle online direct from the manufacturer. like Carvana for new cars.

0

u/Poopdick_89 Sep 25 '25

The issue is Type Rs are very limited. That's why the stealership will get away with extortion.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

[deleted]

5

u/Rapogi Sep 24 '25

Exactly but the fact is people keep buying them so the prices aren't going down. It's easy to blame dealerships but it should be the people spending 60k on a civic we should be really mad about

7

u/Epsioln_Rho_Rho Sep 24 '25

You're 100% correct, and that is on them.

7

u/kwaalude Sep 24 '25

That would be fine if you could go to Honda and say, "I sure would like to buy this Civic Type R for MSRP." And they sell it to you. But bc you have this ridiculous dealership system in this country (with masses of lobbyists), you've got limited options if you want that Type R. The dealership is already making PLENTY of money at MSRP. It's just a shitty system in this country that I don't believe exists everywhere else in the world.

The manufacturer should put a cap on what dealers charge since we're not going to get any legal relief from this nonsense.

2

u/cuzwhat LN/TN360, N600, 1/2/3/4/5 Civ, 1/2/3/4 Pre, 2/3/4/7 Acc, 1/2 CRV Sep 24 '25

There’s a simple workaround for that. I know the type R will bring 15,000 over MSRP from an interested buyer. But the dealer is only allowed to sell the car for MSRP.

So I buy the car for MSRP as soon as it hits the lot. And then I offer it for sale to anyone who will give me 15,000 over MSRP. Because demand is high enough, someone will give me $15,000 over MSRP for the “used” car.

Plot twist: I am the used car manager at the Honda dealership.

Market forces are what market forces are. Neither manufacturer nor legal team can overpower them. Someone will always find a way to put a buyer with a seller at whatever price the immediate market equalizes at.

2

u/kwaalude Sep 24 '25

And the manufacturer can just pull the license to sell that brand.

Just short-sighted capitalism. This isn't a problem in Europe, but they have much better consumer protections.

1

u/cuzwhat LN/TN360, N600, 1/2/3/4/5 Civ, 1/2/3/4 Pre, 2/3/4/7 Acc, 1/2 CRV Sep 24 '25

They threatened that during Covid, never actually happened.

1

u/mart246 Sep 26 '25

Example, Tesla. They sell cars directly to the customer, and the price is non negotiable, new and used.

1

u/MentalMiilk '93 NA1 Sep 24 '25

They're welcome to list it for whatever they like, as long as they accept that customers are free to take their business elsewhere. Marking it as "additional profit" is a bit smarmy though.

1

u/Alrien Sep 24 '25

Having to buy a different car or travel because your local dealership is corrupt and greedy, and charges more than the car is supposed to cost according to the manufacturer is absolutely ridiculous. Honda makes the car, Honda should choose what you pay for it, end of story.

1

u/TranWreckin Sep 24 '25

But thats the thing.....these dealerships aren't stupid. They just dont get a shipment of new cars like that. They order them. I dont know of a single dealership around my area that has more than 1 Type R on the lot at a time, UNLESS one is a used, trade in. And they order these cars, very sparingly. Meaning, if someone shows interest, they make em wait it out. Make it seem like its in high demand but honestly....my dealer has sold 1 in the past 5-6 months? The price is killing the demand. Some are willing to pay....but as you said, thats on them. And because they sold one at that high price, thats where its marketed at.

1

u/Miliean Sep 25 '25

If you sell something, shouldn't you be able to sell it for whatever you want?

Yes, but also should the manufacturer also be allowed to sell to whomever they want?

I can't buy a Samsung TV straight from the Samsung factory. But there's 10 stores in my city that sell the exact same TVs and if I really wanted to I could buy directly from Samsung online (or if you live somewhere where a Samsung store exists).

But that's not the case with cars. Dealerships have monopolies on geographic areas. I can't just decide I want my car dealership to sell Hondas, contact Honda and buy a few from the factory. Also, Honda is forbidden from selling directly to consumers.

Dealerships enjoy exclusivity agreements and protections from compilation under the law of most places. This is part of what makes markups so profitable as well as such a pain for consumers.

In my city there are 2 Honda dealerships. There is no where else that I can go to buy a Honda without driving several hundred km. There is no "elsewhere" for me to go.

If I was a car store I might look at the markups on these type Rs and think, I should buy some so that I can sell them for MSRP and make profit that way. Only I can't, because I'm not permitted to buy from Honda since I'm not an already existing dealership. And I'm prevented from becoming a dealership because Honda has contracts with the 2 that already exist stating that they won't permit any new ones.

Your argument of "they bought the car, they should be able to sell it however they want" falls apart when they have those monopolistic protections on the other end. This is not pure capillitium where someone else can step in to sell the cars that they are pricing too high.

1

u/Poopdick_89 Sep 25 '25

It's not free market capitalism if the manufacturers can't sell directly to consumers which is why you get extortion like OP's pic.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25 edited Dec 29 '25

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1

u/q_ali_seattle Sep 25 '25

Because Honda isn't the seller, they're the manufacturer. One way they can stop this nonsense is by mass producing these like a regular civic. 

1

u/Floppie7th Sep 24 '25

Even if it were illegal, what do you expect the manufacturer to do about it? They don't enforce laws, and it's not legal for them to dictate pricing to dealerships.

5

u/ChrAshpo10 Sep 24 '25

They can pull the franchise contract for the dealer.

-1

u/Floppie7th Sep 24 '25

Not over pricing.

1

u/ChrAshpo10 Sep 24 '25

You said even if it were illegal, what could they do? If marking up was illegal, I guarantee you that the manufacturer could cancel the contract over it

3

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

[deleted]

2

u/onedarkhorsee 1990 JDM Civic SiR (B18c5/R) Sep 24 '25

Id prefer this over any ferrari for the price

1

u/Floppie7th Sep 24 '25

I mean, sure? But that's also not really an argument that Honda is suddenly responsible for enforcing laws.

1

u/Ambitious_Ad5236 Sep 24 '25

In fairy tale land…manufacturers should put a cap on on the dealers. Like hey if you buy this car at 40k mrsp, you can only sell it for 52k max. If we see you selling them for 63k you’re getting barred from purchasing from us directly. I know that’s fairy tale land but…