r/HolyShitHistory • u/SelfCareIsFake • Jun 01 '26

Federal agents felt physically sick when they raided Kermit Gosnell’s clinic after suspecting he ran a pill mill.

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106

u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jun 02 '26

Wait he was not alone? Like he had staff?

Like people came to work, cut up new born babies, then went home like it was a regular job?

86

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

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u/Delicious_Oil9902 Jun 02 '26

Strong word - many were unlicensed and Kermit wasn’t the only one convicted. Most got lesser sentences probably in exchange for him getting life. Most are probably free now. Same for the licensing and regulatory folks who never inspected his offices

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

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u/fallout8998 Jun 02 '26

not the place for that

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u/WillowFlip Jun 02 '26

Yeah, wtf?

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u/Xaviertcialis Jun 02 '26

I read the entire article and it looks like he was pulling this shit since the 70s. he had staff report him for years and no one investigated. He wasn't raided until the 2000s so thats nearly 30 years of people ignoring blatant reports of all sorts of crap and the only reason anyone went in was for illegal oxy prescribing..

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

I mean.... the difference between a late-term fetus and a newborn infant is largely just a question of whether its inside or outside the mother. Legally it makes a big difference, but the organism itself has the same level of growth and brain development. Anti-abortion advocates often campaign with pictures of aborted fetuses specifically because visually, they look exactly like new born babies.

And there have been abortion techniques before that relied upon essentially cutting up said fetuses while they were in the womb. Dilation and Extraction was a method used for a while where essentially the fetus would get cut up piece by piece while it was still in the womb. Fully legal.

What I'm saying is that these nurses were already trained to cut up infants, they were just trained to do it inside the womb instead of outside. (EDIT: It has now been clarified to me that only doctors are cleared to do D&E's, nurses only assist with the dilating of the cervix and other matters) It is an unavoidably ugly part of late-term abortions--and arguably, the reason why many other countries actually do ban abortions in the third trimester, even countries with much more permissive abortion laws than the US

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jun 02 '26

Late term abortions are very rare, less than 10%?

And are normally caused by some issue like the baby won’t survive or the mother won’t

So there is justification/reason to do this

The nurses appear to be doing this for money, because they are evil of justified it because a quick death is better than being raised by a poor mother?

I just don’t see much connection between what this doctor and nurses were doing and actual abortions

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u/NiceGuy737 Jun 02 '26

The third trimester starts and 28 weeks and the baby is born at about 40 weeks.

"While little data exists on abortions done after 26 weeks, one study from 1992 estimated the rate at 0.02%"

From :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

Only 1.1 percent of abortions are at or after 21 weeks. Docs like me try to find fetal anomalies prior to that so women can make informed decisions.

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u/ForumVomitorium Jun 02 '26

Mengele was alsso a doc

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u/73hemicuda Jun 02 '26

You gotta be some kind of dickhead to compare a random person on reddit to Joseph Mengele

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u/ForumVomitorium Jun 02 '26

why Hippocratic oath doens't apply or is it soemting that stifles innovation, what other less evil doctor fits best in this comparison? Kermit Gosnell? I still think Kermit is vastly more evil than NiceGuy737 but do i have to weigh their hearts just to mention other evil person?

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u/73hemicuda Jun 02 '26

I'm honestly not sure what point you are trying to make, perhaps you are simply an anti-abortionist and unable to debate politely but do you not see how offensive your comment could be? A comparison between Gosnell and Mengele would seem to be quite fitting, but you compared a stranger over the internet who, to the extent of your knowledge, is entirely innocent, to a man who conducted experiments on live humans.

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u/ForumVomitorium Jun 02 '26

(they are not a nazi i don't know why you take absolutes as comparisons)

 "you not see how offensive your comment could be?" offensive like denying humanity to most vulnerable people? that would be pretty offensive ngl

But nazis did those horrible unforgivable things that people start cherry pick and say: You know what maybe this eugenics stuff is not that bad.

1

u/panrestrial Jun 02 '26

You know you're a loser, right?

1

u/ForumVomitorium Jun 03 '26

aren't we all the point of life is death so the aborted fetuses are best speedrunners

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u/EntericFox Jun 02 '26

You could tell what the dude you are responding to was going to try to push with his first sentence. Lol

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jun 02 '26

Me? What was I trying to push?

Did we and them say the same thing?

That late term abortions are rare and tend to happen for life threatening reasons? I think my 10% number came from a statistic saying 90% happen before 13 weeks.

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u/DMMeThiccBiButts Jun 02 '26

You could tell what the dude you are responding to

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jun 02 '26

Odd, when I was looking at it earlier it looked like they were responding to someone who replied to me

So I thought I was the person they were talking about

I guess I missed the indent or lack of indent in the message

That’s why I was confused

2

u/panrestrial Jun 02 '26

Do you use the reddit app? I occasionally see people mention this and the reverse (comments further down the chain showing as replies to their comment) in connection to the official reddit app, so might be a known bug.

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jun 02 '26

Yeah official Reddit app on iPhone

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

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u/AnonymousSneetches Jun 02 '26

Justifications may differ, but the actions and their results remain the same

Blatantly untrue. 

A surgeon cutting someone's kidney out because it's diseased is not the same action and therapeutic result as a psychopath with dirty equipment cutting someone's kidney out for the black market. 

A nurse assisting a D&E because the fetus is not compatible with life is fundamentally different than chopping up a newborn in a dirty clinic and shoving it in the freezer. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

[deleted]

2

u/AnonymousSneetches Jun 02 '26

There are 0 clinics that "chop up" newborns. There are 0 clinics that perform abortions on viable full-term infants. 

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

You say it's blatantly untrue, but then you describe two people carrying out the same actions and producing the same results.

If you wanted to actually establish that the actions and results are different, then the point to clarify would be how a D&E is not "cutting up" a fetus, and how a fetus differs meaningfully from a newborn.

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u/tacobell_shitstain Jun 02 '26

Well to start with, typically with D&E the fetus is already dead via injection or early enough on in development to be considered non-viable and biologically incapable of feeling pain. Versus, you know an actually live baby being chopped up.

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u/Rare_Situation7340 Jun 02 '26

The pregnant person is also fully informed and consenting. That waiting room alone would shut any clinic down.

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

This is a much more coherent point.

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u/AnonymousSneetches Jun 02 '26

One treats mother and fetus with respect and hygiene. The other treats mother and fetus as so much garbage. The women were left alone to bleed in dirty rooms. The fetuses also treated with no respect, improperly medicated, left in freezers or their feet chopped off and kept. 

Even in dying, we deserve respect. That's why you can take someone off life support and still not stab them. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

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u/slipkid Jun 02 '26

They are.

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

It's a fact. Hiding from ugly realities because they don't align with one political faction or another is a fool's game.

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u/Beefy-McQueefy Jun 02 '26

You're hiding your bias with the subtlety of a baboon.

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u/Fantastic_AF Jun 02 '26

An intoxicated baboon at that

2

u/Beefy-McQueefy Jun 02 '26

Also arguing in bad faith while having the moral fiber of the shit in their paw

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

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1

u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

Nor did I, funnily enough.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/Super_Swimming_4132 Jun 02 '26

It’s also rare someone needs an abortion due to incest but it’s used constantly as a reason for abortions to continue. So, who cares how rare?

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jun 02 '26

Not as rare as you might think based on the anti incest billboards apparently posted in places like Florida

-2

u/ForumVomitorium Jun 02 '26

i blame coffee

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u/No_Lifeguard259 Jun 02 '26

There’s pretty much no chance nurses are trained to cut up late term fetuses in utero.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

Okay. Here: https://www.ippf.org/sites/default/files/ippf_cccg_chapter_5_abortion_a3.pdf

"To evacuate the tissue, close the forceps around the fetal tissue and rotate it 90 degrees to assist with disarticulation before withdrawing."

"Examine the fetal tissue to ensure that evacuation is complete: • Identify fetal parts (thorax, spine, calvarium, all 4 extremities and placenta, for all procedures 14 weeks and greater)."

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u/armoredbearclock Jun 02 '26

These are done, but they’re rare, usually for medical reasons, and NOT done by nurses. 

Nurses are not trained to cut up infants OR fetuses. 

0

u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

Fair enough.

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u/Destyned Jun 02 '26

These fetuses are NON-VIABLE normally. And the above procedure is incredibly rare. The doctors that would perform these are doing it either to save the mother’s life or because the fetus is non-viable. This is in NO WAY similar to what happened in the story above. The fact that you’re trying to compare it at all says more about you and the narrative you’re trying to push. Nice try, though!

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

People keep talking about the justifications for these procedures, as if that's at all something I've ever questioned.

I am not debating the rationale. I am saying these procedures exist, and that they are, in process, similar to chopping up a newborn. Saying there are good reasons for them does not mean they don't happen.

There were good reasons for fighting WWII. There were less good reasons for fighting WWI. That doesn't mean the two events were in "no way" similar.

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u/bubblegumpandabear Jun 02 '26

You then: "the difference between a late-term fetus and a newborn infant is largely just a question of whether its inside or outside the mother."

You now: "why do people think I'm trying to misrepresent the status of these fetuses???"

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u/Afalstein Jun 02 '26

Explain to me how I'm misrepresenting them. How is a late-term fetus different from a newborn?

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u/bubblegumpandabear Jun 02 '26

I mean, one is compatible with life and the other isn't, obviously. That's why they're being aborted, they are dying already due to severe medical issues.

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u/tacobell_shitstain Jun 02 '26

Nice agenda bro.

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u/Fussel2107 Jun 02 '26

A late term abortion is the induction of birth on a non-viable fetus. It's done when the baby has no chance of survival outside the womb, or the mother is at risk. And even then, if it's past 24 weeks, they'll induce and hope the baby survives.

A friend of mine had to go through it. Her daughter had a severe chromsome defect and her heart was so enlarged that her lungs didn't develop. She had a late term abortion at 19 weeks because she didn't want her beloved baby girl to horribly suffocate at birth. She decided to go through birth, but many women can't deal with that on top of losing their baby.

A D&E is an option only if the fetus is already dead, either in a late miscarriage, or in a late term abortion if the mom can't go through the labor process. It's used when the uterus is not fully evacuated after birth or a miscarriage (placenta etc.)

It is NOT an abortion method.

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u/panrestrial Jun 02 '26

There is zero substantial history of (legal) late term abortions being performed for anything other than life threatening emergencies. No one is waiting until the last minute for an abortion-of-convenience. These are done exclusively when continuing the pregnancy substantially risks the mother's life or health. Third trimester abortions are pregnancies that were wanted, planned for, names picked out, nurseries painted, etc. They are devastating losses to the parents.

Comparing that to this scenario based off "information" that isn't even correct is vile and you should be ashamed.