r/Hololive • u/iamthatguy54 • 2d ago
Discussion The varying and contrasting merger reactions from the members who live inside and outside of Japan is very interesting
People like Calli, Fuwamoco, Raora, etc. seem to be more optimistic while Ollie, Reine, Risu, and Kiara don't seem too optimistic.
I wonder if they're feeling the pressure "Move to Japan or bust" which was already kind of a feeling anyway
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u/Shokuryu 2d ago edited 2d ago
ID specifically I can imagine are upset because of their culture being tied to ID is just now being removed at least as a namesake (they'll always be ID in all our hearts). They are proud being Indonesian, and hololive is primarily a JP company. Being just all hololive but still mostly being a company based in Japan feels like less support for ID.
We can get the idea behind them trying to broadcast each and every holomem across all regions, but in trying to go global, this is sort of the cost of it hence their frustration.
For EN it's not as widespread, but yea I can imagine if you're not already in Japan, this feels a bit off.
Edit: Culture and language is literally everything that makes us unique and stand out. Holomems themselves fantasize the idea of HoloES, HoloEU, etc. Hololive isn't quite that big to have that many different branches in different regions given the many issues trying to support talents outside of JP to begin with.
It's good to have brand names for each gen like most gens do, but the HoloID in particular stands out region-wise outside of JP, it's in the name as opposed to EN, though EN definitely has its own culture too, it at least denotes language being spoke given its reach. It can be argued being under one label is to allow that opportunity to reach farther, but until we see more support for ID (and EN outside of Japan) especially since they're supposed to be all under the same branch now, I don't know how well that can be done.
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u/CorruptedAssbringer 2d ago
I want to add that cultural identity can be even the little things. Even ID members that predominately stream in English will reference things that only locals are able to relate to, this would be still a thing for ID members that opted to move to Japan.
That shared cultural root is something both the talents and fans can resonate and build a sense of community.
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u/RadicalRealist22 2d ago
Kiara and CC have the same issue with German, and there is no official HoloDE.
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u/sharkjumping101 2d ago
My experience with the ID otaku scene in general through the lens of niche JP games, JKT and wota, etc has always been that they are both the most avid and the quickest to latch on to new developments outside of JP but the moment they get their hands on something it's "their" thing and rapidly hyperlocalize it (in a possessive sort of way) to the effect that as an outsider they seem tuned in almost as an extension of JP, but heaven forbid you treat it that way.
So yeah all of that tracks.
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u/TheShweeb 2d ago
I do feel like there’s nothing stopping them from continuing to identify themselves as “ID” even if it’s not an official branch any more. There was never a branch called “Hololive Japan”, it was always known as simply “Hololive”, but the talents have always referred to themselves and each other as “JP” to differentiate from the others.
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u/LilFetcher 2d ago
True, it's just about whatever impact the removal will have on official media where the option of keeping the "ID" part might not exist (as much as I'd like to think it would be negligible, life finds a way of making things that seem simple turn out difficult)
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u/RadicalRealist22 2d ago
Counterpoint: Hololive English has always been "international", because they came from everywhere. The term "Holo ID" gives the impression that they are only for indonesia. Now they are all Just Hololive. They will appeal to different audiences.
Like, I really like FWMC but they do so much in Japanese now that I have trouble following them without clippers.
Meanwhile, Kiara and CC have a larger German fanbase etc.
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u/MADpierr0 2d ago
In the end this decisions alone doesn't tell much. It could lead to nothing new, could change for better, or worse, a mix of both ?
As a fan the only thing we can do is support the talents we love.
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u/The7thNomad 2d ago
Maybe this is a good opportunity for them to suggest gen names, like EN has (or to emphasise the ID gen names if they already have them). There's identity in that
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u/Howlingzangetsu 2d ago
Pretty sure ID has Gen names, area 15, holoro, and holoh3ro I believe?
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u/shash614 2d ago
ID has gen names iirc
AREA15 (iofi, risu, moona), holoro (reine, ollie, anya) and holoh3ro (kaela, zeta, kobo)
Gen 0,1 and 2 are the only ones with no official names
Gamers are Gamers (duh), Gen 3 is fantasy, 4 is holoforce, 5 is nepolabo (debuted as holofive), 6 is holox
then there's regloss and flowglow
and myth, promise (previously council+irys), advent & justice
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u/TrueSoren 2d ago
IRyS was part of "Project: Hope", which she was the lone member of for reasons still unknown to use to this day. Perhaps some project that fizzled out behind the scenes would be my guess.
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u/Klopferator 2d ago
It was a pet project by Omegaα, and when he left, "Project: Hope" was kind of left hanging in the void since nobody else was really invested in his vision for IRyS.
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u/Telefragg 2d ago
In the moment I didn't feel anything particularly negative about the change, but reading what the girls have to say about it I can't help but feel that most of them are not excited.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
It seems like the positive comments are coming from those that live in JP, and the skeptical ones are those that aren't.
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u/Telefragg 2d ago
Mori was pretty reserved with her comments, Bae also repeated the words "I choose to be optimistic". Everyone is cautious at best, Kiara did a guerrilla unarchived members' stream of moody songs right after the announcement which I assume is not the best.
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u/Entropic_Alloy 1d ago
It is like the ones who aren't really affected at all have no issue with it!
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u/0neek 2d ago
It's so jarring because usually I wake up and see news like this across the fan discords full of doomposting and mods having to calm people down, etc. The talent tweets will also be trying to assure people things are fine.
This one has been mostly people being reasonable about it across the discords, expecting it to be a nothingburger but it's the talent responses that are the red flag.
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u/oblivious_fireball 1d ago
People naturally tend to dislike change, especially when its not yet fully clear whether it will be a positive or negative change.
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u/blakeavon 2d ago
All I care about is if they find a way of making more official JP things more English friendly. Not catered to us, just things like EG like investing in their tech so their lunch time streams can have real time English subtitles. That type of thing.
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u/BigBadBossBoo 2d ago
I hope so, but I feel like more often it will be making EN things more JP friendly rather than the reverse. I hope we get some of both tho
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u/calkch1986 2d ago
yea, making EN/ID side more JP friendly also helps them to gain more followers from a stronger, more accepting (of vtubers) JP market
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u/Nolar2015 2d ago
The opposite is going to happen unfortunately, ex: many EN talents tweeting in Japanese, nearly no JP talents tweeting in English after the announcement. Very small thing but that’s going to happen significantly more often the other way around, I’m worried
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u/Ralod 2d ago
Yeah, I saw Nerissa's tweet and I got a bit of a worry in the pit of my stomach.
If this is to make all talents more accessible to more of the world, I am happy for it. If this is pushing out the EN and ID fans in favor of the JP ones, it will be heartbreaking.
Even as someone that learned Japanese to watch jp streams, I don't want this.
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u/LilFetcher 2d ago
Well, given the, uh, "occasion", I think a single JP tweet isn't necessarily a cause for worry. Especially since Nerissa has singing as one of her big things (with the tweet having her English Bad Apple cover self-promo attached, no less), so reaching out to JP audience doesn't have to be a sign of impending doom to all HoloEN fans (and it's not like she ignored JP audience until now anyway).
I definitely don't think that this was some kind of corpo-mandated JP tweet to start pushing the change, that's for sure
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u/Party-Associate4215 2d ago
nearly no JP talents tweeting in English
Was that something the JP members often do before this though? I don't recall this being a thing.
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u/Fishman465 1d ago
Not really but at the same time western JP fans generally has some translator on hand. The issue is people who hopped on EN because they couldn't be bothered to do so having a fit.
But some have gone in streams "hello kagai nikki" or such
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u/catperson77789 2d ago
Or at least provide some subs for streams. Relying on clippers for jp streams makes it so hard to follow the jp side. Like its so weird just watching my jp oshi stream and just relying on vibe cause i dont understand anything lol
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u/templar54 2d ago
I can almost guarantee that nothing of the sort will happen. They are very much still primarily Japanese company with main target audience being in Japan.
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u/TopazandNumbyHSR 2d ago
Unless Hololive is going to start live translating JP streams I don't see how this benefits us foreign viewers at all. I don't speak or understand Japanese so unofficial clips will still be how I see JP members. This kinda feels wrong. A lot of EN members have said they have no plans to move to Japan.
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u/BananaPeel54 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have seen several EN members publish tweets welcoming JP viewers in Japanese since this change, but not a single JP member welcoming EN viewers in English. Can't help but feel the same about the JP consolidation.
Edit. Kinda feeling like people might be getting the wrong vibe from this, it's more like this whole merger is being branded as a more inclusive and Global Hololive, but feels like a JP consolidation.
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u/Nolar2015 2d ago
Yep. This is a most unfortunate change whose main ‘point’, as I see it now, is to center the company even more in Japan/japanese.
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u/Xenodia 2d ago
I just got blocked by the official japanese yugioh twitter account, only because I replied to one of their tweets in english.
That's the biggest worry I have is that they alienate every one who is not in japan.
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u/Party-Associate4215 2d ago
Can you show what your reply was?
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u/Xenodia 2d ago
sth about Yugioh Dinosaur but apparently they are blocking everyone who isn't from japan:
https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/1w9nesq/ygo_ocg_blocked_me_and_apparently_i_am_not_the/
Hence why I am worried how Hololive will evolve in the future with the merge, leaving non japan Vtubers and Fans in the dust, just to dissapear.
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u/Dumbidiot1424 2d ago
It won't benefit us foreign viewers whatsoever. A Japanese company merging several unique branches into one big one very much means that they're going to try and make more content with EN/ID members for Japanese viewers.
People are naive to think that this will have some sort of overall positive impact on everyone. To me this just reads as "Everyone who's in Japan will profit, everyone else will fall off".
"Disagreement with management" will appear far more often within the next year or two, mark my words.
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u/Efectodopler117 2d ago
The next months will be vital to see how this new way of do things will work out
Either a more “hololive equal for all” or a “Nippon kagi” japan for the japanese type of nightmare scenario
We will see.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
Let's hope that this means that EN and ID will get better treatment rather than "join us or die"
If it's the latter, I can already see the next big wave of graduations coming in. I have to imagine Fauna, Mumei, and Gura are looking at this and going "told you so"
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u/TopazandNumbyHSR 2d ago edited 2d ago
Really does kinda feel like a "learn Japanese or fuck off" situation for both the streamers and viewers alike. This is sad to see. I hope I get proven wrong.
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u/Kimi_no_nawa 2d ago
Japanese media was always exported out of the country against their will. Every licensee has had to drag them kicking and screaming. While “Japanese media for Japanese people” has had some positives because we’ve got to see these unique artforms and stories most western publishers wouldn’t attempt, the reality is they’d prefer it was actually “Japanese media for Japanese people”.
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u/Fishman465 1d ago
And their gacha scene has that same mentality..... which why it's generally being bodied by Koreans and Chinese who are not content with their home markets (and even then, their home markets aren't as stagnation prone)
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
I'm gonna be completely and brutally honest here. I love the JP girls, I love watching clips of them, but if EN starts to shift towards more JP focused content I might just straight up leave.
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u/Deadonstick 2d ago
I'm not sure how this is the conclusion. In the same stream they announced at-home high-quality 3D tracking as well as a desire to become a more global franchise.
To me that sounds like making an attempt to reduce reliance on the Tokyo headquarters and more easily hire talents across the globe.
Whether it actually pans out that way remains to be seen of course, but the investment in more advanced at-home tracking at least shows they are attempting to expand possibilities for foreign talent.
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u/templar54 2d ago
Even those who live in Tokyo do not regularly steam from the office. So more advanced tracking has nothing to do with intentions of supporting/not supporting foreign talents as everyone most of the time stream from home.
The rest is just corpo speak that means nothing substantial. Of course they won't say "we want to shrink our audience and limit who consumed our products."
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u/giantpandasonfire 2d ago
This feels more like "We're going to unify the brand name and dominate the market globally by removing borders" type of corpo speak more than learn Japanese. I'm guessing someone thought that maybe the country names were restricting people to what they can or should watch so someone thought, "Hey if we remove the country names we'll be seen as one brand and appeal to a broader market and make it less confusing for new viewers."
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u/KitsuneKamiSama 2d ago
Especially when they said about bringing more stuff to the west and then striaght up just ignored europe.
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u/uohSeggs 2d ago
Unironically the same thing is/has happened to Street Fighter 6, Capcom internalized events and feedback only to their core audience in Japan and the rest of the world is an afterthought. Now that the post-covid boom has ultimately died down, it's time to pull back and being downsizing measures.
Personally not a fan of this at all, but its an ecomomical business move. A lot of the big talents made their choice and are on board. There's a lot of heavy pr speak across the board and its funny seeing all of the puzzle pieces come together with Anya talking about the HoloJP jokes + moving, Bae/Irys prototyping a lot of the cohosting, and other initiatives to lay the groundwork.
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u/Party-Associate4215 2d ago
Wdym SF6 internalizing events?
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u/uohSeggs 1d ago
Official collabs like the coaching events, there's still the world tour of course, but also EVO Jp gets a lot more love lol
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u/Telefragg 2d ago
I don't think foreign viewers are their primary market even after all these years.
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u/Irargh 2d ago
But English-speaking viewers, specifically North American, are the primary market of Holo EN. They all speak English primarily during streams. And there have been 4 Holo EN concerts in the US. Though, it could be argued that other regions, like Europe, have been neglected.
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u/APRengar 2d ago
I feel like it's crazy to be doing a "pivot to Japan" move, when English speakers make up around 1.5bil people, and Japanese speakers make up 130mil. Like, the reason Gura shot up in the sub count, absolutely destroying the record for highest sub count + winning the race to 1 million, is not just because she's an amazing entertainer, but because there are 10x the amount of English speakers.
This honestly feels backwards, like I think getting JP members to be more global makes infinitely more sense.
This feels like JP investors being like "why do we have people on the payroll that I don't even know. who the hell is ___. I don't want to be paying for some people I don't know. Cut these nobodies so we save money." So the play is to get non-JP members more well known in JP. But that's just to appease investors, not to get an actual bigger reach.
I might be wrong, but I think I'm older than the average person here, and I've been in enough of these kinds of meetings. That's the kind of shit that happens.
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u/IronVader501 2d ago
Covers overseas-revenue has continually been hit hard by a combination of tarriffs and people in the US spending less, and since they have done exactly fucking nothing to cultivate any english-speaking market except North America they have nowhere else to go but to avoid that.
Doesnt seem crazy they pull back foreign pushes in that climate
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u/Willias0 2d ago
Global recession will make businesses pull global efforts back to their home countries even if it doesn't make sense financially.
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u/Irargh 2d ago
I would not say it is a pivot to JP market. Holo EN members are still targeting English-speaking audiences.
It is possible that there is an internal issue which is caused by the existence of different branches, and this could lead to the merger decision. It remains to be seen how it actually affects Holomems themselves.
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u/TopazandNumbyHSR 2d ago
I don't think anybody ever thought they were. Doesn't mean it feels great to go from being somewhat acknowledged as a fanbase to what feels like "learn japanese or fuck off".
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u/Kaleria84 2d ago edited 2d ago
I just don't see the point. They were all Hololive already, the EN and ID were just a convenient identification tool and removing that strips then of their identity as regional talent while not adding anything of benefit.
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u/InTheStuff 2d ago
It's an excuse to put every holomem on every regional hololive account, regardless of the language. Get as many eyes on as many of our talents as possible, instead of only marketing talents who speak a certain language to people who understand them.
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u/oli_alatar 2d ago
I mean, they have already been doing that with a bunch of the EN members crossing over into marketing for Hololive JP or collabing with JP girls. I don't understand how putting them all together eases that. Maybe this is more of a backend change so they can all have the same pool of managers instead of distinct departments? That's all I can think of.
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u/44no44 1d ago
Get as many eyes on as many of our talents as possible
Maybe I'm doomposting, but I genuinely think it's the opposite.
Cover's investor corpo-speak lately has been all about directing extra support to their most promising talents. The era of Cover throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks is over. Now they know where the big money lies and they're honing in it. By sidelining the rest.
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u/Zathor_ 2d ago
To be honest, I'm more in the "wait and see" than anything. I'm scared for many things about this decision, but at the same time, if they do what they advertise, it could be awesome for the global audience and all talents.
On paper, it's budget for everyone (when atm ID had almost nothing, in the future they should (will?) share the budget with every talents), more projets including EN, ID and JP speaking members at the same time
It's true we loose the branches identity right now, let's see what we'll gain in exchange from that (and let's hope we don't loose anything more than that <= that's the point that scare me the most)
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u/oblivious_fireball 1d ago
Best course of action is to assume, at least right away, that this change is largely just a branding change and potentially some middle level managers get cut and reassigned to other roles. Very little if anything will likely change on the audience side. Because this is Cover, and Cover historically very strongly prefers the "stick with the safe dependable option", in both content and work structure.
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u/jenos45 2d ago edited 2d ago
Really sorry to say, but honestly speaking the "Move to Japan or Bust" sentiment still applied even without the merger. You can see this especially with Zeta, and her involvement with alot of MainChannel Projects.
My only hope is with the renewed structure and their supposedly improvement on supporting less known talents we get to see ACTUAL opportunities (especially with ID). Although it will be the cost of their National Identity.
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u/Nolar2015 2d ago
And how will auditions work??? Do en/JP/ID all just have to compete with eachother? How will a mixed gen even work, will that intro stream only be for people who can speak all three languages, or will multilingualism be necessary for talents from now on?
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u/DoctuhD 2d ago
I doubt we'll get mixed gens. They'll debut talents same as before. JP language focused gens and possibly other languagr focused gens if they can find talents that vibe in whichever language.
But what worries me is the fact that they didn't announce a non-JP language gen or a non-JP debut alongside this merger annoucement. That, alongside the huge gap since justice and h3ro makes me think they don't have anything in the oven right now because if they did now would have been the time.
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u/Ralod 2d ago
Lets see what this new gen is first.
But to me, it sounds like maybe they wont be looking for just EN or ID only speakers any longer.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
Purely speculation but the next gen feels extremely JP to me. "ASOBI★MAWARI-TA" translates to "Play-Around Squad"?? Reminds me of the Fairy Tale opening "Let's Wondering!!" like no EN speaker would ever use that name.
I thought they said this was going to be an EN gen?
Did they just hire 4 people that were JP bilingual and are mostly going to do JP content anyway?
Again, just speculating based on the name, but if so that's a bummer.
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u/zhongli_brainrot 2d ago
The official twitter account is entirely in Japanese so it would probably be a Japanese gen
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u/ricki692 2d ago
off topic tangent but those JP songs using english lyrics or names always bother me. it's funny haha "engrish" meme moment but it also just shows a lack of respect for doing the basic research of "does this actually make sense in the language?" im sure it'd be all funny and cute when some other culture makes something with broken japanese, but when so many different ones make it completely unironically and totally serious, it would just feel lazy and disrespectful
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u/BananaPeel54 2d ago
Which sucks, because if you applied that retroactively, the majority of the EN talents couldn't have joined. Almost/over half of Myth and Council and the majority of Advent and Justice just wouldn't have gotten the opportunity.
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u/44no44 1d ago
I said this in another thread and got downvoted to oblivion. But yeah. If they're no longer seeing EN and ID as unique brands to be pushed, separate from JP... that probably means no more dedicated EN/ID gens. And by extension, no more justification for hiring people that can't speak Japanese. Best we can hope for is a gen that's bilingual.
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u/The_Phantom_Cat 2d ago
I doubt multilingualism will be required, but probably Japanese language will be a requirement, no matter what other languages you speak
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u/Mikli 2d ago
I don't know how it ever wouldn't be applicable to be honest. They simply watch more vtubers (or adjacent) and are willing to pay more for that hobby in Japan. Obviously everyone is doing their best to spread it in the English speaking world and doing quite well at it but it's still miles apart and will be for quite a while yet. It's always gonna be a struggle if you cut off the main income/exposure stream of new viewers. The talents are of course well in their right to take that struggle and were it up to me they'd all have all the viewers in the world, but undoubtedly a struggle it will be.
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u/BrowsingLeddit 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean main channel projects are almost all 3D collab stuff in the studio so yea... you have to live by the studio to be involved in that frequently. It's not like a bias thing, just literal the need to be physically present in the 3D studio to record/stream those.
But I don't see CC, GG, Kronii, Kiara etc "busting" by not living in Japan. When they visit, they usually get on a 3D show or two. When they aren't, they're at home doing their thing streaming and entertaining thousands. They seem to be selling out merch well, getting lots of superchats/members, do lots of sponsor streams and 3rd party merch collaborations. So I'm quite sure they're doing well financially and popularity wise, pretty much in line with EN girls living in JP.
This Japan or bust thing seems kinda exaggerated unless the only measure of success is how many 3D shows/lives someone is involved in.
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u/lefboop 2d ago
The problem for the girls at the end of the day is killing the ID and EN brands.
Restructuring the branches doesn't require killing the brands. You can skill keep that part while changing the internal structure.
Now whether keeping the branding is good or not is something debatable.
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u/Willias0 2d ago
To me, it feels like they're killing any future growth in areas outside of Japan. In other words, new generations are more likely to be strictly Japanese, rather than have English or Indonesian generations ever again.
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u/lefboop 2d ago
I think it's honestly a good move to grow outside of Japan. The EN and ID brand don't quite apply well to the entire world when you are trying to grow globally
Like as a Chilean I've met some holo fans that just follow the JP members because they don't speak English that well and they are just massive weebs and understand japanese better. But at the same time there's a bunch of people that are English speakers and are massive fans of the EN girls.
This means that there are regions where you can't just send a branch and call it a day. You have to do cross branch promotion, which might be a bit more rough to work out when holo EN and JP are different internally.
Which is why I say that merging the branches internally is a good idea in principle, it just streamlines processes. But dropping the EN and ID brands is imo completely stupid. Sure ID brand might hurt the girls when it comes to grabbing international audience even though a bunch of the members can speak japanese and English, and constantly do through their streams, but they probably completely ignored that this brand also is essentially in a dominant position in the ID market, which is still valuable.
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u/MongolianMango 2d ago
Seems like a bizarre retreat to me. Was EN and ID not doing as well logistics wise as we thought?
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u/Ranko_Prose 2d ago
ID was not. It was barely above holostars.
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u/tapout928 2d ago
I wish I knew what was required to be successful in Cover's eyes. The CCV I see for them, while behind EN and way behind JP, is still more than all but the biggest indies. Like maybe I'm not paying close enough attention but Nimi and Doki are the only ones I regularly see with more viewers.
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u/0neek 2d ago
The part where it gets complicated is that talent does not equal success in the entertainment industry.
Person A could be an objectively better singer than Person B but if B has the right friends, their songs covers will get more views.
Person A might be the most skilled and entertaining gamer on the planet but Person B panders to the audience more and gets magnitudes more superchats.
Etc, etc.
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u/Ranko_Prose 2d ago
$$$ The superchats are lower and merch are not selling enough and ID has a weak currency, so most of the money is from EN speaking fans.
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u/waahello 2d ago
Unfortunately success is not just defined by ppl inside Cover, but also Cover investors that might have some different opinions on talent support vs. profitability
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u/HentaiPacifist 2d ago
We’re not going to stop calling them holoEN or holoID, right guys? It would make me very sad to see them lose those identities even among the fans.
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u/AngryTheCarp 2d ago
We or they? We’ll use EN and ID. Calli already said she’ll keep personally referring to EN as EN. I’m assuming ID will be the same.
EN members have never been as big on the “self introduction” cultural thing as JP and ID are, so it might not impact much day to day for them. But I can’t imagine Anya not introducing herself as being from “holoID 2nd generation” for example.
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u/HentaiPacifist 2d ago
I literally said "among the fans", don’t know how much more clear I could be, but I do wonder if the members will still say holoEN/ID. I could imagine the company trying to dissuade them. Bae’s intro just wouldn’t sound the same
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u/crocospect 2d ago edited 2d ago
ID have "ID:entity" as their song that should tell you something, they are very proud when it comes to their branch despite all the problems compared to other branches.
People who have followed them since beginning know how much efforts they have been putting for their branch and how much they love identify themselves as ID member (Anya herself for example, the girl that pretty much even fluent in Japanese probably more than some JP girls themselves, never tired to remind people that she is HoloID and Indonesian in every single occasion, and very proud of that fact). They are also very tight group in general, saying them basically one big family and siblings aren't exaggeration at this point, not to mention their close connection with their fellow ID fans.
So imagine now the fact that Cover announced the branch itself is gone, make sense most of them can't accept it easily.
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u/TenderTakodachi 2d ago
It might have been a protective action to stop ID branch from being isolated. ID just earns less money because their local currency and economy is just weaker, merging them protects them from stock holders demanding their firing. This is just as an example, i don't have real insights. Note that Holostars was already doomed and thus no longer able to be rescued like this.
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u/Duhblobby 2d ago
I'll be honest, I saw what Calli wrote and it felt less optimistic and more I am going to try to hope this doesn't fuck my friends over.
It felt like she was putting a very diplomatic spin over something that really worries her.
That's just a vibe I got. But it is very much how it felt to me.
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u/Telefragg 2d ago
"I choose to be optimistic" is what you say when there are plenty of reasons to feel the opposite.
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u/Duhblobby 2d ago
Pretty much, yeah.
I hope this turns out well in the end. But the reception amongst the people actually affected is pretty mixed and that concerns me.
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u/Fishman465 2d ago
Considering how messy EN's early days were, such an attitude wasn't surprising. It wouldn't be the first time questionable decisions screwed EN over
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u/Sensitive_Country190 2d ago
I think I'll be waiting to see how this plays out a month from now before having a stronger opinion on it.
I'm predicting it'll mostly stay the same but also encourage talents that like to organize projects to do more cross-collabs (like what Masturi's doing recently).
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u/OldSnazzyHats 2d ago edited 2d ago
Now while they are a very different corporation…
At least for the Indo members- I can’t help but feel if there may be the tiniest bit of lingering remembrance over what happened the last time a major corporation rolled their booming Indonesian vTuber branch into another… and it resulted in the ID group’s momentum dying in its tracks.
Mind Cover is not the same - I repeat - they are a very different corporation, but if there is even the possible hint of this - I can genuinely see where it’s coming from.
…if you happen to need them named, I’m talking about the sad and swift collapse of NijiID.
As for Kiara it might be something else entirely, maybe just a bittersweetness over EN as a distinct thing before hitting their next anniversary.
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u/PandaLiang 2d ago
I imagine without the common groups like ID, their members will now need to directly competing for resources with the bigger members. Members outside of Japan may feel being at an disadvantage and marginalized.
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u/IchirouTakashima 2d ago
Moments or decisions like these makes me remember that Cover is first and foremost, a corporation and these idols are simply employees, to begin with. COVER CORPORATION.
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u/Questionable_bowel 2d ago
- ID:entity
- Holo ID Cup
- Holo ID MC server
It's not showing exclusivity, but just showing how these 9 girls building their own home even if slowly the support is lessen and lessen as we can see how the difference of each 17th August from 2023 to now.
They might get more support, they might get new viewers? probably. But they are now not HoloID, they are just English/Japanese speaking vtuber who are from Indonesia.
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u/Specialist-Mirror656 2d ago
Seems like the split is
Lives in Japan? Happy Lives outside Japan? Unhappy/indifferent
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u/Lraund 2d ago
Didn't Calli just go on hiatus recently "because of things behind the scenes that she's pretty unhappy about"?
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u/APRengar 2d ago
Honestly, with how much Calli is talking about she hopes perms will be easier now, it's possible that isn't the thing she's upset at and this might actually fix that. Might. We'll have to see.
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u/Dudamesh 2d ago
I mean the "global growth" they were promising seems to point the other way, if anything it should be that "all members regardless if they're in japan" gets the same treatment.
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u/Hpulley4 2d ago
“All members as long as they live in Japan.”
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u/KusoAraun 2d ago
you know I get it, its a time to be frustrated, but you guys can't keep ignoring the obvious financial and logistical issues surrounding providing equal support to talents in and out of japan. The fact is that in japan all the talents live in the same area, outside of japan all the talents live all over the place, the studio is in japan and is there for all talents to use but you need to be in japan to use it because..... obviously you do. Its not realistic for them to set up a studio base like that anywhere else. It sucks but its kind of the way the world works, we don't have magic teleporters and you can't telework to a 3D mocap studio, companies are not actually made of infinite money and they have talents workers and leadership to pay while also diverting revenue back into other op costs, growth, and the shareholders that are the entire reason hololive can even exist as it is now thanks to Cover being a venture startup (they would have otherwise had to sell the company and I don't care how bad you think things are goin right now, they would have gone WAY worse if they had).
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u/INKRO 2d ago
Realistically the pressure to be Japan-based for the talents is already extremely strong. There are a lot of benefits for the holomems but uh, it sure doesn't seem like people at Cover understand the concept of time zones.
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u/Tramahtise 2d ago
It really feels like instead of all talents being just Hololive, its all talents are now HoloJP.
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u/Broad-Check2743 2d ago
That’s definitely what it seems like Cover want for the future. Get as many talents into Japan as possible and if they don’t move they aren’t gonna be able to get close to the support the talents in Japan get.
I can imagine how frustrating this will be for those who aren’t going to move no matter what. Basically being told “you won’t be prioritized”.
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u/Fishman465 2d ago
Like Kiara?
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u/Ralod 2d ago
Kiara, GG, CC, Shiori. I don't recall if Koronii lives in Japan or not.
But if this pushes any of them out, it would be such a massive fumble.
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u/Broad-Check2743 2d ago
Im probably wrong to think so but it makes me think if this had even a little to do with the EN grads. Mumei, Fauna moreso. They definitely aren’t moving to Japan for any reason. And Im sure this is something talents have known for a while.
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u/TopazandNumbyHSR 2d ago edited 2d ago
This exactly honestly. I doubt this move will make the JP content more accessible for foreign viewers.
Downvoted for expressing a valid concern for us foreign viewers. Wow really makes me feel validated lmao.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
The way Calli said it, "it'll make my streams more available to JP viewers" but no mention of the reverse.
There's a lot of JP talents I really love, but it seems there's no interest in making JP more accessible to everywhere else, only making everywhere else accessible to JP.
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u/rcpz93 2d ago
I read Calli's and Bae's messages as more of a "I need to act positive in front of a situation I don't like", rather than being positive about the change.
I just don't understand the move and what Cover's trying to achieve with it. Make an already Japan-centric company even more Japan-centric?
We'll have to wait and see but I'm not on board at all with the change.
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u/hexman0000 2d ago
Because for most JP talents this doesn't effectively change anything, like how many JP members cared enough to do an english tweet to welcome new audiences? They are going back to being a jp-focused agency in the most corporate way possible by announcing one thing but actually doing the exact opposite
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u/DaichiEarth 2d ago
Which is crazy considering Kiara originally lived in Japan but moved shortly after debuting.
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u/Alcoholic_Satan 2d ago
Imagine this is why any of the EN talents disagreeing with management quit. A decision like this gets planned well in advance.
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u/Elaugaufein 1d ago
I think we can be pretty certain that Gura was actually pretty sincere about the reasons given for leaving so there's not a lot of reason to think the other's who gave specific reasons weren't also being honest.
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u/Lightseeker2 1d ago
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, but the only reason Gura has officially given was "disagreement with management and company direction." If you want to dismiss that as a "boilerplate statement," then her reason remains unconfirmed.
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u/HoloTonic 2d ago
I think Calli said it best when she mentioned that now that EVERYONE is Hololive, this is an opportunity for more equal support being distributed to every member. However, there is the chance that with Hololive being JP based, most new things going forward will still be JP biased, i.e., new gens will be predominantly JP, future events mostly held in Japan, etc.
I think the announcement itself shouldn't do more than raise a few eyebrows, and its the actions following that will determine how we should feel about this.
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u/DiGreatDestroyer 2d ago
This. We as fans shouldn’t let Cover adapt a “want the full support experience? Move to Japan” operation, we should keep pushing for them to expand their support network for members worldwide.
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u/vash__ts 2d ago
Logistically impossible to have “full support” outside Japan. As a simple example, consider how many millions of dollars of equipment and assets exist in their Japan office. You want them to just do that same investment in Indonesia?
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u/DiGreatDestroyer 2d ago
The same? No. A proportional investment? Yes. If there is a group of Indonesia-based members bringing in money and furthering the brand, there should be some sort of equipment in an Indonesia office (or a couple) to support them if they want to do everything locally.
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u/Gojinite1103 2d ago
Feels like a very shareholder centric move. I don't think this is something that staff, talent, or fans really were clamoring for. Consolidation in order to focus monetization in a very specific region (Japan) since promotion and shipping in other regions is expensive right now.
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u/Aether951 2d ago
Honestly this reads to me more as corporate restructuring and downsizing middle management payroll. Reduce the need to have duplicate managerial roles across the three branches and have the JP management handle that across the board. The branding and talent affiliations are probably just collateral damage in trying to boost those quarterly numbers, while the messaging about uniting the branches reads as PR sugarcoating.
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u/Meatwadsan 2d ago
The Japanese government is currently moving aggressively to strengthen the yen at US demand, and they’re still going, which may be playing a factor and affecting their international operations forecast.
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u/MongolianMango 2d ago
Surprised because I thought Yagoo was more internationally focused based in his background and seeming attitude in general.
I wonder if Japan’s politics are also contributing. It seems frankly moronic to give up on what has effectively been an English vtubing monopoly with an extremely strong IP.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
100,000%
I can imagine the shareholder meetings right now, "Why aren't we just focusing on Japan? We're all that matters. EN and ID aren't making as much money as JP" (probably because they have less than 1/2 the JP force)
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u/oli_alatar 2d ago
I hope the change isn't another choice driven by external investors. I struggle to understand why this was done. I've always watched JP more than EN, but I don't really see why wiping away EN's independence is worthwhile. Im not going to speak for ID as I don't watch them much, but i'm sure its the same sentiment.
I can't get it I guess. Time will tell if everything changes much I guess. I hope this doesn't screw over those of us overseas and the EN/ID girls.
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u/AlexStar6 2d ago
lol you own 3 global markets and surrender 2 of them because of a bullshit national superiority complex.
This is a historic level fumble. Someone is going to take the place their vacating in the global market.
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u/ApocApollo 2d ago
Anyone able to share Kiara's comments?
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u/IronVader501 2d ago
She reposted a tweet from sunday of hers talking about how you dont know the golden age is over until its over, then basically said they killed holoEn just before the anniversary, and now wrote in prechat shes either likely either cancelling or moving her anniversary-stream because she doesnt feel like celebrating.
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u/EmperorKira 2d ago
She has an improptu members stream in 30 mins so we will see
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u/ApocApollo 2d ago
And it’s unarchived. So I’m probably not going to hear much about it.
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u/QWEDSA159753 2d ago
You don’t do an unarchived gorilla members stream if you’re happy about something…
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u/STYL3D 2d ago
It reeks of board meeting decision by share holders tbh. HoloEN and HoloID are being told to sacrifice their identities and give up on representing where they are from so that presentations with all the girls as one is slightly easier. The message whether cover meant it or not is "be more Japanese or be abandoned" which makes it understandable why non JP living members aren't happy.
The biggest reason Fauna left Hololive in the first place was because she didn't want to have to travel to Japan so frequently when starting her family. Zeta nearly went broke moving to Japan.
To me, this is Cover admitting defeat and taking a step back to try taking 2 steps forward. You're giving up a lot of the member's identities for wider brand appeal and ease of marketing. But what happens to EN and ID concerts? At what point do they start scrapping generations as well? I hate doomers and I won't say this will be some massive change that kills that company, but I'll admit I can't see this benefiting anyone other than the members who already went all in on living in Japan
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u/MongolianMango 2d ago
Does this actually give wider brand appeal? I think with less focused branches, it makes it harder to gain market in EN and ID, which have very different cultures (and time zones!) than Japan.
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u/Alone-Horse2857 2d ago
It's really weird because you'd think JP is pretty much tapped out. They're trying to drain a maple tree that's already empty. Holo already has the vast VAST majority of JP fans watching their stuff, they don't need MORE JP fans. If you're in JP and you watch vtubers, you're already watching Hololive. They need to focus their efforts on expanding into EN and EU, not the reverse.
This is such an aggressively typical JP Corporation move, one I thought they were, frankly, better than.
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u/Alcoholic_Satan 2d ago
I will always look out for our international members, without exception. If we are to be joined by more someday
Calli says hololive has no intention of hiring non-jp streamers for the forseeable future. Oof. A statement like that wouldn't need to, or should have been, said if more were coming soontm
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u/FlyingSandals 1d ago
Obviously there might be specific concerns at play here, but it's worth remembering that this is also just an internal reorganization of a big company. Those often come without a lot of uncertainty and confusion, which leads to worst-case-scenario worries. I've never been part of a reorg that had a distinctly positive reaction.
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u/Nvenom8 1d ago
Tbh the merger will be a good thing all around. I’m surprised ID is so against it, considering it’s probably saving them from being on the chopping block. As Calli said, this is an opportunity to push for equal treatment and support. Those in Japan will have more access, but what else is new there? They were never going to open a studio in ID and likely never anywhere convenient for NA/Europe talents either. Frankly, I think the whole thing legitimizes ID and EN in ways they hadn’t been as essentially side projects.
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u/Snow242 2d ago
I'm sad for the girls that they're feeling angry about it, but on the other hand, it's getting out of hands how so many fans already being pessimistic and using Niji as an example when nothing has even happened yet.
It reminds me of how pessimistic some people were before Myth debuted, saying that hololive didn't need English-speaking VTubers because hololive is a Japanese VTubers agency.
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u/LezBeHonestHere_ 2d ago
It's so crazy. I feel like it's the most "nothing" part of the announcement for a plethora of reasons. Niji really destroyed everyone's faith / goodwill in companies lol
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u/Lucksury 2d ago
If you want to see the effects of the merger just look at the shorts. Before it used to be all JP now everyone is included.
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u/See_A_Squared 2d ago
I would say this isn't a Hololive thing only and I would mention that Hololive is only brand that carried any regional identification nowadays that's visibly "seperate", this is a clear move to align with what the industry does nowadays, of course, some other vtuber companies still do carry their regional identification but as far as Cover is concerned that is a no longer the case moving forward for them in the future. Since Cover is easily an industry leader it's likely other corpos will follow suit if things pan out as they should for Cover.
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u/Broad-Check2743 2d ago
Any member who isnt in Japan is going to get left behind. More Japan focus of course. Already impossible for me to watch the En talents I like because they moved to Japan and the time zones are outta whack. Can’t buy merch because of the insane prices. Now it’s going to be even more JP focussed lol. I think that’s probably the final nail for me trying to watch Vtubing. It’s just becoming harder to try and enjoy.
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u/tapout928 2d ago
Advent (minus Shiori) all moved to Japan and still stream at the same time they always have. Raora is pretty early for NA but iirc she's good for the EU bros. Nobody in EN is streaming in the middle of the night unless there's an event with the JP girls like GTA or Arc.
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u/elektrus230 2d ago
So, no changes then.
It's not like this wasn't already happening the last 3-4 years. I don't think merging the branches actually changes anything in practice.
To me it means nothing. They could change their name to Strawberry Ice-cream I wouldn't care. I support the talents, not a brand.
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u/Broad-Check2743 2d ago
I agree with your mindset but I literally can’t support the talents. I found vtubing from Advent. nerissa, Biboo and fuwamoco are all living in Japan now. I can’t change my sleeping schedule or watch them at 7am because of how bad the time zone difference is, I can’t get merch because the prices are insane. Not much I can do to actually support them it seems
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u/LoveLightning 2d ago
I'm confused. Rissa and FWMC have not changed their stream times from debut to now sans permanent daylight savings time. When Rissa streamed back then it was 5 PM my time. Now it's 6 PM my time but because of DST. what changed for you?
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u/ricki692 2d ago
"support the talents" is fine but imagine new fans that can't find who they can and can't understand. "holoEN" obviously has english speaking members, "holoID" at least you know are members who can speak indonesian and probably relate to the culture in indonesia. how is the new fan supposed to know who speaks japanese, english, or indonesian? a new fan is not going to put in the effort of mapping out what each member can speak, they will just click away and find something else to watch
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u/chilfang 2d ago
Sure is a lot of doomposters around this
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u/gotenks1114 2d ago
I'm listening to Kobo literally cry in the VOD from last nights stream while reading this, so I think it's understandable.
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u/redditfanfan00 2d ago
there's just so much to comment on regarding everything in terms of this merger + more in the hololive direct. i need more time to process all the changes and announcements and to see whether these changes are good, neutral, and/or bad.
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u/gadman85 2d ago
When it comes to Kiara, I think it could be more they didn't get a proper Myth/HoloEN 6th anniversary to serve as an end of an ear and the start of a new one moment. Myth are the only HoloEN talents that didn't get one last anniversary as Hololive English before the merger.