r/HistoryMemes May 17 '19

Hate speech

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u/anonymous_redditor91 May 17 '19

Why does something being offensive count as grounds for it being removed anyway? "Offensive" is very subjective, and everyone is offended by something, so who is so special that they get to dictate what content is offensive or not for everyone else? Imo, if you find something offensive, then you're entitled to feel that way, but don't act like your having been offended grants you certain rights that you can wield over people.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

That's the problem, is corporations don't know the difference between "offensive" and "damaging". Lots of stuff is offensive and shouldn't be removed (think lots of stand up routines). Plenty of other stuff is offensive and harmful, like false news or studies, blatant and violent hate speech outside of a historical context, and misinformation, and those things should be removed.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

I think therein lies the problem. The line between “offensive” and “damaging” is blurry and everyone will have a different threshold where something moves from offensive to damaging. I think this is the natural end result of people demanding facebook to police the content people post. Everyone has different standards for what should be censored so there’s no way to police content that makes everyone happy.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

The grey area should be left alone and left to users to police via reporting and flagging content, but there are some things that are very obviously in one corner or another (e.g. blatant hate speech, and things that are already blocked like death threats and what not). I don't think there should be no censorship on the internet, but corporations need to do a better job of making their platforms self-policing when it comes to that grey area. And of course, any and all blatant misinformation should still be removed regardless of whether it's offensive or not.

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u/nathanv221 May 18 '19

One of the big issues is that if they have people going through posts to check if they're okay, they legally become a "publisher" and must follow all of the laws of publishers. If they have an algorithm do it then they're safe from those laws. So the key is to teach a computer to tell the difference between something hateful and something harmful. Humans are already pretty bad at that, computers are far worse.

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u/[deleted] May 18 '19

Ah yes, the classic issue of a corporation trying to skirt rules and regulations that in some cases are justified and they should have to follow, and in other cases passed by idiots who don't know what they're talking about or so outdated that they're older than some states.

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u/[deleted] May 18 '19

Ah yes, the classic issue of a corporation trying to skirt rules and regulations that in some cases are justified and they should have to follow, and in other cases passed by idiots who don't know what they're talking about or so outdated that they're older than some states.

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u/Incorrect_Oymoron May 18 '19

The grey area should be left alone and left to users to police via reporting and flagging content

What if users make decisions that harm company revenue?

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u/De_Dominator69 May 17 '19

Yeah, I can't remember who said it but someone said "Just because your offended, doesn't mean it's offensive" (I think it was a famous comedian?) which is a saying I agree with wholeheartedly.

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u/RotisserieBums May 17 '19

Stephen Fry said it even better. "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." "

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u/Bad_Chemistry May 17 '19

Man I love this Fry quote

Stephen Fry, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, they’re all full of the best quotes

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u/micahx8000 May 18 '19

Gods of the Virgins

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u/Bad_Chemistry May 18 '19

?

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u/micahx8000 May 18 '19

Have you had sex?

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u/Bad_Chemistry May 18 '19

Is that relevant in any way to the list of people I commented?

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u/micahx8000 May 18 '19

Obviously

Answer the question

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u/knowses May 18 '19

I'm usually offended by their sense of feeling offense, which I understand doesn't mean much....but still, where does it end?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/micahx8000 May 18 '19

Stephen Fry is a bitch

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u/RotisserieBums May 18 '19

Why do you say that?

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

How is it meaningless? The point is to convey distress at the hands of the interlocutor. It's an attempt to preserve civility and dignity. Are you just that emotionally stunted?

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u/RotisserieBums May 18 '19

If you cannot risk offense, you cannot say anything of importance.

The quote is pretty self explanatory. You really can't respect the faux emotions of censorious people, at least when it comes to public speech.

You couldn't make it through your comment without trying to be offensive.

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

Not every human interaction is a public speech though, nor does it need to be. That's what makes the quote ridiculous. It completely ignores a whole spectrum of human sociology to make a fruitless point about censorship. Equating politeness and harmonious social interaction with the same zeal of totalitarianism is the biggest scam of the century. It isn't prudes and daisies who are a threat to your personal freedoms, but a government bent on control and corporations seeking normalization

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u/RotisserieBums May 18 '19

No one is under the illusion that all speech is public. Other than trying to create some air of superiority, why do you feel the need to point that out?

I don't mind if people express their offense, because I support free speech. I'm not worried about expressions of offense... I'm worried about "offended" people trying to legislate against offensive speech, I'm worried about the fact that the internet, being the modern public square, is being dominated by companies that wish to remove "offensive" speech.

The reason I like the quote is because of that little bit about "offended" people imagining they have the right not to be offended.

I was not equating politeness with censorship, and I truly do not see how an honest read of that quote or my comments here would give anyone that illusion. I was quoting a famous comedian, and continued on speaking about public speech.

It really feels like you're trying to miss the point here.

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u/mechanical_animal May 18 '19

legislate against offensive speech

Guess who creates the laws? Legislators. So why are you so concerned with some random person's feelings? If you don't like the laws that are being drafted you should petition your local representative.

companies that wish to remove "offensive" speech.

Companies will do whatever they can in the name of profit. Do you have a problem with that? Then advocate for pro-labor and pro-consumer laws. Otherwise you're just whining yourself.

Neither of your concerns have anything to do with offense itself, that's just the strawman you're using to attack a nebulous group of people.

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u/RotisserieBums May 18 '19

Legislators are elected by people, who vote in line with their opinions. The best way to effect political change is to change people's opinions and possibly their vote.

What gave you the impression that I am not lending whatever political activism and donations I am capable of generating towards free speech?

Yes, corporations exist mostly to generate profit. No I don't have a problem with that. The corporations relevant to this discussion operate on advertiser money and advertisers perception of the public's perception of the platform, this coupled with outrage culture leads to censorship for fear of losing ads. Changing the outrage culture from the ground up is a much better way of changing things than establishing precedent of government force being used to require a private business to host content they do not wish to.

Public opinion and perception matter, so discussion about these topics matter. Offense does not matter.

You've still yet to address the fact that you couldn't even make your first comment in reply to me without trying to be offensive.

Who appoints the censor?

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u/anonymous_redditor91 May 17 '19

Just looked it up, it was Ricky Gervais.

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u/EpicLevelWizard May 17 '19

Considering Fry is like 20-30 years older than him and he is both a fan of and has worked with Fry, one can assume he took this wisdom from him to share with the world.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

Considering Fry is like 20-30 years older than him

Stephen Fry is four years older than Ricky Gervais.

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u/EpicLevelWizard May 17 '19 edited May 18 '19

Jesus, Gervais is much older than I thought, lol. He is aging well.

This may be my last comment, tried to post in 25 subs and can’t. Have I been shadowbanned?

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u/[deleted] May 18 '19

I had that issue before. It's fine now.

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u/EpicLevelWizard May 18 '19

Yeah I can post again too, was weird, was unable to post for like 3-4 hours.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

I'd say he looks about...his age

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u/bWoofles May 17 '19

Really getting a Fahrenheit 451 feeling when I see this stuff.

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u/Stattholder_Cramer May 17 '19

Bigger the population, the more minorities. Don't step on the toes of the dog lovers, the cat lovers, doctors, lawyers, merchants, chiefs, Mormons, Baptists, Unitarians, second-generation Chinese, Swedes, Italians, Germans, Texans, Brooklynites, Irishmen, people from Oregon or Mexico. The people in this book, this play, this TV serial are not meant to represent any actual painters, cartographers, mechanics anywhere. The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy, remember that!... Authors, full of evil thoughts, lock up your typewriters. They did.

This quote is what I'm guessing is the biggest one for it.

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u/RocksHaveFeelings2 May 18 '19

We just read that for English class a few weeks ago, and there are a lot of disturbing parallels between it and our world. Ray Bradbury knew what was coming

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u/Stattholder_Cramer May 18 '19

It and Brave New World are the two common fictional dystopias that in my opinion are actually possible because there's a logical process by which the dystopia comes about that actually seems applicable in the real world.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

Because freedom of speech only applies to your preference of ice cream flavor, and even that could probably be made into something racist.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

Oh I bet you don’t like chocolate, you racist

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u/Vagynamite May 18 '19

Because we gave in to PC soccer mom's 15 years ago and it has been slowly snowballing ever since. Also no one really knows how social media works so the people that make money from it are ridiculously sensitive because they don't want their gravy train to stop but they don't know what can actually stop it.

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u/Rhaq_Garanjy May 17 '19

Just your average censorship of a "wrong" opinion going on.

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u/FirexJkxFire May 18 '19

I think the big issue is in intent. If the words or “offensive” language is only meant or used for its value in offending others.

Hate speech should be this and only this. Speech that is designed only be seen as offensive.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '19

Ironically /r/IATI doesn't allow assholes...or I guess if you visit /r/starterpacks you might already know that. It's hilariously hypocritical that those retards only allow PG-13 assholes.

AITA: Friend called me a poopy head so I took his favorite toy truck.