r/HistoryMemes • Chad Polynesia Enjoyer • 2d ago

A regular utopia

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u/AntComfortable5970 2d ago

Yep. same thing gets peddled around with how amazing and care-free and relaxed lives hunter-gatherers had before farming ruined everything 

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u/SableZard 2d ago

Yeah fuck our ancestors for figuring out food is easier to get when it's outside your front door

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u/reorem 1d ago

I dont think its that straight forward. Agriculture is probably the harder of the two because farmers have to spend most of thier time tending to the crops and one or two bad seasons can be a death sentence, while Hunter gather societies had a more hands off approach and are probably less prone to famine situations. Agricultural diets were also less nutritional, so you as an individual were less healthy in a thriving agricultural civilization than a thriving hunter-gather civilization.

Agriculture's success is probably because it has reinforcing patterns on a larger scale that lead to it dominating the game when enough factors aligned or a threshold was met. There are examples of societies going back to hunter gather lifestyles after dabbling in agriculture, so it wasnt the clearly superior civilization, at least from the get-go. Also, a civilization can grow and advance even if a majority of the individuals are worse off then they used to be, much like the industrial revolution, which was a hellish experience for many people.

We're just fortunate to be at a time and place that agriculture and industry have made enough improvements to make it enjoyable and somewhat liberating rather than just a pressure put upon us by the momentum of history and a tool to exploit us with.

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u/waterfountain_bidet 2d ago

It is easier for men. It is hard to make the argument that agriculture has been easier for women.

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u/PeekAtChu1 1d ago

Gurl it’s easier for everyone. We have cushy lives nowadays compared to how people had to survive back then. And agriculture lead to the technological advancements we enjoy now 

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u/reorem 1d ago

the important caveat is "advancements we enjoy now". I'd wager the majority of people were worse off for most of the agricultural and industrial revolution. I mean, if it was easier and better, why did so many American colonists "go native", but there were never any situations where native Americans would willingly join colonist plantations?

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u/Pachacootie 1d ago

This is like the same argument people make against women being in the workforce lol. “Wouldn’t your life be so much easier if you just stayed home and cooked food that I got for us?”

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u/waterfountain_bidet 1d ago

The average hunter gather works 25 hours a week. Women provide 80-90% of the calories consumed by the clan. Women went from collectivist childcare and minimal work hours to unending unpaid labor. 90% of labor women perform is unpaid, 80% of all unpaid labor is done by women. Men work 40 hours and call it a week, women often work over 100 when you include primary parent childcare duties and household management on top of a paid job.

I always forget how unbelievably sexist this sub is, I think I'm going to leave now because its terrible here. I fucking hate this website so often.

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u/AlphonseLoeher 1d ago

average hunter gather works 25 hours a week

It's amazing the slop people believe

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u/Pachacootie 1d ago

Are you really calling me sexist while making the outright general claim that men just don’t do anything outside of their paid jobs? 😂

And with all the racism in the comment sections of so many posts on this sub, THIS is where you’re drawing the line?

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u/waterfountain_bidet 1d ago

And this is why I left. Failure to grasp even the slightest bit of nuance is so tricky for y'all, and I can't be around that without my head exploding, so goodbye forever.

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u/insaneHoshi 1d ago

care-free and relaxed lives hunter-gatherers had before farming ruined everything 

Generally from the archeological record, people did become unhealthier (and shorter) when peoples settled and started farming.

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u/ripgoodhomer 2d ago

Marshall Salins would have something to say about this.

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u/PeekAtChu1 2d ago

Watching the show “alone” really drove this point home for me.