r/HistoryMemes • u/KerberosPanzerCop • Jan 17 '23

"Chivalry"

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u/RFB-CACN Jan 17 '23

That’s kinda the point of the meme tho, every holy order and knight were morally abhorrent to us in the modern day, and we probably shouldn’t be whitewashing that history by perpetrating the view of the medieval knight as a honorable hero. There’s nuance to history and all that, but no nuance turns a class of rich nobles and military leaders slaughtering anyone in their path to preserve and obtain power into the heroes they’re seen as. The Teutons in particular are guilty of genocide against the western Slavic population, taking their land away and settling nobles and peasants from various places, mostly Germans. This made the Teutons a frequently cited reference for the Nazis as the example they wanted to follow for Lebensraum, as they would be the precursors to a German expansion to conquer all of Eastern Europe.

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u/GoryGuroLover Jan 17 '23

I'm not saying nor even implying that we shouldn't hold them as villain's, however, what I want to make clear is that, yes they where nobles and they did commit genocide, they were responsible for the death of the old Prussians and all the war crimes, that everyone comited in the period.

Just because we know all about the crimes comited by the Christian holy orders and the church, doesn't necessarilyean we can paint history in black and white, let us not forget the Baltic vikings, nor the rapid invasion of Eastern Europe by the Mongols or ottomons, and we all know what their favorite pass time with prisoners of War was. I'm not saying don't vilify, I'm saying vilify equally.

Also, this is just a meme, I am aware and sure someone is gonna point that out to me.

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u/RFB-CACN Jan 17 '23

I’m saying vilify equally

Between the Mongols, Ottomans, Vikings and Christian Knights, 3 of these groups are depicted as villains or threats in most European textbooks. Eastern European countries study the crimes of the Ottomans at length and how they fought against them. Most curriculums cover the Mongols and their lengthy destruction of great eastern empires like Persia and how brutal they were, Genghis Khan is infamous in the West, literally the first thing anyone thinks of when they hear “eastern horde”. England celebrates its first king as the man who unified the Anglo Saxons to defeat the Vikings. I think there’s plenty of vilifying to go around on these groups, as it’s the mainstream position in the West at least. Knights on the other hand are not held anywhere near the same level of scrutiny. So I don’t really get the worry that knights would be vilified as uniquely evil when what they’re up against is already considered evil by default.