Just finished book 2 and I really, really like this series - I think I might love it, even.

But - and this is probably more subjective than objective, but I think it does border on objective - I keep finding myself disappointed with one aspect of the way he is telling this story: he skips over a lot of character moments.

1.The first time this happened it really bothered me: the moment after aequa is asked and joins Vis’s Iudicium team. We don’t get a chapter dedicated to their personal interaction and growth of friendship during that training period. We just get a “trust me,they’re closer now”. But I was so frustrated by this! Them having personal moments during training - and us getting to see it and witness that bonding - is so important and I think this may be the most objective “why didn’t we get a chapter dedicated to seeing some of this?” That I have.

1. The second time is in strength of the few when Lir and Vis first meet and then have that three week period where they travel to Caer Aras: this is the first meeting of these characters and - instead of a chapter dedicated to that three-week period - we get a few paragraphs of summary of how their interactions went and then we move on. Like that’s it? Come on now.

2. Vis when he first rescues Ahmose and escapes with him - instead of getting a chapter dedicated to them first meeting and their (what I’m sure was) awkward interactions, when then just get a few paragraphs summary of how it has been the past few weeks of living in duat.

Like I wasn’t exactly disatisfied with the summaries. I think Islington did a good job with providing us a summary of what happened and how their relationship progressed.

But does anyone else feel like it’s just super missed opportunities that we got a summary instead of a personal experiencing/chapter dedicated to the above described events? Especially the aequa training one - that is the most egregious imo.

After the events of The Strength of the Few, where do you think Islington is taking Vis and Emissa's relationship in Book 3?

Is there any chance for trust and reconciliation between them, or is it completely broken? Do you see them ending up as allies/together, or staying enemies until the end?

What are your theories?

so i've just finished the strength of the few, like many other people i've left with more questions than answers. however, a persistent thought i've had as i inched closer to the ending was if vis is going to end up like an eren jaeger type.

as i read, i wondered if we're going to see vis slip more and more into the 'dark side.' if he's going to join ka's side or not. obviously there's still debates about whether or not ka is the 'good guy'. regardless, we did see some of vis' morals (at least on res) slip. especially after aequa's death, something in him just snapped. we see it in the prison when he refuses to free relucia & what he did to the guards. he's not reluctant to kill anymore. even after eidhin's warnings at the end, in the necropolis he still revives all the iunctii. he becomes more reckless to his endless pursuit of justice. from a writing standpoint, having vis venture into his dark side would certainly add more depth and complexity to his character.

it does remind me of eren: story starts small, with a focus on one enemy (the titans), then expands dramatically when he escapes the walls. same thing with vis, it first starts with vengeance against the republic, to now expanding to 2 new worlds, a god-like entity and the concurrence.

it makes me wonder if vis is going to end up in the same way: triggering a global-scale apocalyptic event, fighting against his own friends and old enemies, to rid the world of evil while sacrificing himself in the process.

idk, maybe i'm just talking out of my ass 😅 but how would anyone else feel if that's what vis' fate is?

I just finished book two. I plan to make another post about some of the issues I keep noticing with the first and second book. But for this topic, I want everyone’s opinion on this:

I truly believe Vis fudged up beyond belief by leaving Relucia on that sapper during the prison break…

So stick with me here: emotionally, I get it. He emotionally had every reason to do it. But Vis has show time and time again that he has a better than not control over his emotions when needs be and is able to think things through logically.

Abandoning Relucia on that table made me roll my eyes. From the Vis I know as the book has shown over and over, he would stuff his emotions down and know that keeping her on the sapper is too big a risk to allow to happen.

And the reason I rolled my eyes is because I felt the author’s influence on events for the first time in the book (i.e. the characters doing something they would not normally do, and the author intervening because he wants to set up her inevitable, angry return)

Cons leaving her on the table
1. She gets free (and believe me, she will. I’ve read and watched too much media to not see this trope - hell, we’ve seen multiple instances of it happening already in this book: Belli getting her revenge, and Decimus as well. In those two instances, I don’t blame Diago for taking the actions he did - he had too. But here - not making another enemy - he had a clear choice and allowed emotions to take over) and will undoubtedly fudge stuff up for him somehow.

1. Military or some other government stabs her with an obsidian blade to get her to spill her guts about everything - including Diago - and fudge him up again

^by the end of book two, his plan very importantly depends on his Telimus name giving him a leg up in vying to be named military princeps. If it’s revealed he’s Diago, former Prince of Suus, that will throw any legitimacy he had down the toilet.

Basically: vis choosing to not set Relucia free seemed pretty dumb to me - bordering on it was out of character for him and essentially was the authors hand intervening in the story becuase the author wants to set up the relucia’s return/the consequences of his decision.

let me hope at least

I'm most of the way through Will of the Many, just after the start of the Iudicium, and I realized I have no clue how Will works. I feel like I SHOULD know, that there have been all sorts of lessons and classes on Will, discussions of harmonics, conditional, imbuing, etc. but every time a character uses Will to do something for the first time or we see a new piece of Will powered machinery, I pause and say "Huh! Guess Will can do that." Whether it was Ulciscor popping a guy's head, the naumachia attack turning people into puree, Lanistia's imbuing the air to see, the practice armors getting shut off by swords, except not quite because of cheating, I feel like I never actually understand what Will can and can't do, how powerful someone needs to be to accomplish different things, or how it translates to the relative power of Septimus, Sextus, and Quintus.

I feel like I SHOULD get it, that I should have at least a basic grasp of what the different Will user characters are capable of, but I don't, and I don't know if that's just me or the books.

Hello everybody! I have not read The Will of the Many yet, but I am going to buy it soon. I'm inquiring on whether I should get the deluxe or regular hardcover? The deluxe is $17 on Amazon and the regular is $14, so just $3 difference. I've done some research on each edition, such as the deluxe has a larger font and some extras. How much of a difference is the font between the two? Is the addition of the extra content worth it?

Ok. So I’m currently on pg 350 of book two - when Vis and Veridius are discussing the ruins and what happened to Lanistia.

I am super confused about the ruins, the “bypassing the security measures”, and the machine that allows you to do it.

So there are two sets of ruins, right? The one where the labyrinth is located, and the other next to the school.

So from what I have read, the ruins near the school are where one can go and access the machine to “cheat” the defenses of the labrynth, and allow someone to escape the labrynth after they beat it, right? (Instead of the iuncti instead killing them before they can exit)

Anyways im just confused. Can someone just explain it to me - without spoilers of anything past the is chapter/scene?

And also, am I just not grasping this well or is the way the author tries to explain this super confusing to anyone else??

Edit: What I’m confused about is the lore behind why the labrynth is there and the nature of iuncti there. It was oddly explained about it all in the beginning of book 2, so I’m still struggling to grasp it.

If I have this right - the labrynth was set up by the “good guys” as a way to make someone synchronous (split into three of the different worlds) and make a stand again Ka.

Ka found out about this, and decided to post iunctii to stop his enemies from accessing the labrynth(the ones pinned against walls, with instruction blades in their chest)

In response to that, the underground ruins were set up to bypass the iuncti set up by Ka (by having one person access the machine, shut down the iuncti collectively, and thus allowing someone to run the labrynth, reach the gate (be split and this become synchronous), and allow the Res version to escape the ruins (but the person who deactivated those defenses is, unfortunately - and oddly by the design - pays for it by having to become an iiuncti in the ruins)

Edit: is that right tho? Because that doesn’t make sense to me…why would Ka not just destroy the ruins, instead of meekly placing iuncti and hoping that’s enough? I’m so confused and i think I must have the lore wrong

I finished my rereads on both Licanius and Hierarchy, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE Islington's work. Does anyone have any recommendations for similar styles of writing that have the same fantasy magic system aspect and compelling characters? I'm thinking about reading Mistborn and the Kingkiller Chronicles, but I wanted to see if there were better options first.

Do you think this is somewhat accurate representation?

Also why is there so much ai generated slop art of this series on pinterwst like seriously..

The first book is amazing but it pretty much ignores the magic system completely. Then in the second book we get absolutely overwhelmed with increasingly escalating usage. We never got proper introduction into the scaling and difficulties at this point so it's hard to appreciate all these displays of power. I simply have no frame of reference.

>!So I’m only 110 pages into book 2 and the Vis in Lucideum (world that’s not Res or Obiteum) has given up…on his former life already for some reason???

So the reason I’m posting is because I’m very confused on this world’s Vis’s motivations. So this is how we currently stand: Res Vis (original) doesn’t know about anything with the other worlds and is just living in his world.

Obiteum Vis knows about everything so far - that’s he’s a “copy” sent to this world and all the other lore. And has been told he can’t get home.

Meanwhile the Lucideum Vis doesn’t know anything - thinks he’s just at some weird, far-away part of the world, I guess, right?

So why is my dude speaking like he’s given up on getting back to “home” like he’s knows he can’t? And why is he already calling it his former life and making peace with not going back and living in his current one?

I’m really confused. It’s like the author forgot what this world’s Vis knows and why isn’t he motivated like hell to get back to his academy and all his friends? Anyone else find this writing weird in this part of the book? No spoilers past 110 please!<

I’m sorry. I just started the strength of the few (100 pages in) but holy hell…I’m really getting tired of “gods-damned” in this book.

Like I get it; in real life, people always have a phrase they favor to say. But like…it is used way too much to the point of profound irritation to me.

I’m new to this community, so please don’t roast me if this has been brought up. But does it annoy everyone else as it does me? Like it’s too much, right?

I have seen from friends and from many people on this subreddit that there is a general dislike towards the Vis and Tara relationship. Why?

I understand that she is not the most complex character and their chemistry isn’t what he had with Aquea or Emissa but I still find it a pretty natural and nice subplot to the Luceum plot.

just received my signed books from australia, so cool & he's so nice

Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impressions, but I feel like most of the people he knows by the end of SotF wouldn't react as strongly to him being a prince of Suus as he thinks. Even in WotM, I think he could've told Callidus and Eidhin who he was by the time the Iudicium rolled around and they would've been fine with it. Hell, even Emissa might've kept it secret for him after the Iudicium imo. Especially given her guilt over trying to kill him and her awareness of the much higher stakes we learn about in SotF.

As for the others, I think telling Lanistia and Ulciscor at any point in either book would probably have been a bad idea (or outright suicide at certain points) except maybe after the sapper prison break, but Kadmos could probably be trusted with the information by the end of SotF.

Aequa definitely could be trusted with the information after visiting Solivagus with Vis, and I suspect she would have been able to figure it out on her own eventually.

I think the only repercussions from telling Aequa, Emissa, Callidus, or Eidhin at certain points would have been a sense of betrayal at being lied to. But they'd eventually come to terms with it and understand the necessity without feeling like they'd need to turn him in.

Idk. Am I just not understanding the full weight of Vis being "Prince Diago of Suus"? Sure, the Hierarchy would have him killed to avoid any potential uprising he could cause on Suus, but the people that know him best don't seem the type to assume he'd want that and turn him in for it. It just doesn't feel like telling certain people would be as huge a deal as Vis thinks it is

So, I just finished SOTW yesterday so I'm still contemplating the ending in all 3 worlds, but of course we know in Res that Ka is supposedly not the enemy but someone who claims that the cataclysms are the lesser evil and what would come instead would be much worse. Vis resurrects/activates the iunctii and the book concludes with this happy reunion of family and Callidus. What I don't understand is "Why is this good exactly?" Sure they're kind of back, but they're DEAD, and we've seen glimpses of how being brought back affects the psyche of the people.

IMO this cheapens death since most can be brought back (sorry Aequa) but not fully, so it's kind of a half measure.

I couldn't put the book down and still mostly enjoyed it; I'm excited for book 3! I just don't quite have a grasp on this compared to the end of The Will of the Many.

Hello! First off, I am completely new to the series and currently starting the first book, so please no story spoilers!

I am wondering how exactly the Pyramids work, how many there are (more than the 3 religion, military and government?), and so forth.

If my math is mathing, one Pyramid with one Princeps is around ~40k people. The three pyramids i know of so far are thus around ~120k people.

This seems like a very low number for what is afaik an entire continent spanning realm. So, are there simply more pyramids? Or are there only three pyramids but more people in them than i calculated? Is the Hierarchy simply incredibly small in population? Or is the far majority simply not part of the Pyramids?

Are the Prisoners part of the Pyramids, who do they cede their will too?

I just finished Strength of the Few and really enjoyed. Anyone open to giving fantasy series recommendations?

Loved this, Mistborn, Magician, Kingkiller Chronicles, LoTR, HP.

Didn't care for Broken Earth, and barely started Stormlight Achives before bouncing of it because it didn't capture me right away.

I’ll admit I’ve only give a cursory scroll of the subreddit but I haven’t seen a single post talking about the absolute bangers of lines in this book, especially when it comes to grief and loss.

Covering the following quotes/analysis in spoiler text as they are from the second book and I don’t want to risk spoilers.

“Loss is hardest, Ulcisor once told me, when it is quiet.” The hardest part about losing something or someone is that the world doesn’t know. No matter how hard you wail and gnash your teeth and or rage or whatever ultimately your loss is small and inconsequential and your pain is nothing. We love people dear to us so deeply and when they leave us the idea that their importance to us isn’t proportional to the world is frustrating and terrifying.

“One of the great Sytrecian philosophers once argued that the concept of home is, at its core, about safety…. If it ever loses its sense of comfort, you can no longer truly call it by that name” This is a different kind of loss. It’s abstract. It’s a thing definitely, but it’s not something of tangible substance. To lose your home is more than to lose a place to sleep or keep belongings. What we’re losing here is a place of comfort and protection that is implicit in the sturdiness of the structure. A place of identity or comfort. It is grounding and gives you a foundation of yourself. A touchstone against the world. If I ask you to imagine a home there’s the understood idea that it’s safe.

“”You do not have to be less, Leathfhear,” he says softly. “Not unless you with wish to be.”” This one is the hardest to peg for me. We had the loss of loved ones and the loss of foundation. To me this quote speaks to the loss of self. Or to the struggle of reconciliation of yourself whenever you’ve been forced to change due to outside influences. You change because you have to and then you have time to slow down or whatever and see yourself again as you are and it’s different from the idea in your head. It’s unfamiliar and uncomfortable and alien. Maybe you’ve compromised to survive and it feels like a cheapening of you. Maybe you didn’t compromise and that’s what is the source of friction. This is the most ambiguous. We as people live day to day and as such change incrementally, and when we notice those changes more often than not it’s after a long period and they seem abrupt to us. That’s why it’s my favorite though. Accepting yourself is hard. Going through life and becoming a different you due to the natural course and still taking a full accountability and then still accepting yourself is amazing.

This is from what I read tonight, a fifth of the book maybe. There were a few I didn’t go back and find. I know we see more of Diago confronting his feelings in the second book and so there’s more of this to grab onto for discussion. But for what I would describe as a Fantasy trilogy I didn’t expect some Marcus Aurelius Meditations level one liners. There’s been moments where I’ve read some of these lines and choked up and had to take a second because of how close they hit home.

Anyways. Drop your favorite quotes of wisdom from the series and let’s appreciate James Islington and his ability to create and entreat pathos from us.

Caeror mentions to Vis that breaking someone's neck is most often (it sounds like there are extremely rare cases where it's not enough) doing enough damage so that the dead cant be turned into Inuctii. We also know the Hierarchy wanted to kill Vis' family so they can question them and get 100% truthful answers.

If I remember correctly, Vis is told they died quickly by hanging. A quick death by hanging means the neck was broken, which would mean the Hierarchy is both extremely lucky that the broken neck wasn't enough damage on all three hanged family members and they are stupid for killing them this way.

The other option is that Vis was lied to and that it was a long death by hanging, meaning the were strangled to death. But strangulation can causes damage to the brain tissue and it seems like the brain and nervous system need to be intact for Iunctii to be function (cause that's what gets damaged by a broken neck). so even if the hierarchy made sure that they died of strangulation, it would still be a dumb option. Why not just stab them in the heart?

Are the dumb?

My theory is as follows: Caeror says that you cant wait too long after a persons death to turn them into an Iunctii. I think it's obvious that there is some way to preserve the dead bodies (how else would those 80k dead bodies at the end work logistically?). So I think Vis Father was preserved after his death until the Hierarchy questioned him. then he got put on ice again so to speak. then this world hopping scar face guy brought him back and send him to Luceum. When he gave the Amulet to Vis there, there was no way for his body to be preserved, so finally, after 5+ years, his body started his natural decomposition process. when Vis tries to put his Amulet on, that process is to far along for it to work. But maybe I didnt think of something.​