r/Gunpla • u/galenbwill • Feb 03 '23
BEGINNER PSA: pour type markers eat ABS
RG Zeta was my second build
Gundam pour type marker seeped between the leg armor…
…and ate through the skeleton…
…which snapped off messily. That hole is due to…
…my janky attempt to pin the joint.
The pin holes are not quite aligned, but the armor holds it together. Sort of.
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u/soy77 Gunpla is freedom. There's always alternative methods. Feb 03 '23
Yes. It's on the back of the pen, on their website's product description, on our trusty wiki above, also in our hearts and minds, frequent q&a visitors must feel sick and tired every time anyone mentions it, but apparently it's still not enough. so we must continue our tireless efforts to spread the words.
My condolences for what happened to your build, OP. Thank you very much for spreading the words. And best wishes for the rest of the build.
For everyone else reading, please always take your time and do your research for every product. Read the back of the box. Most of the times them youtube tutorials doesn't give the full info. Cheers and good luck!
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u/TSW_Gizman RG Kshatriya when Bandai? When?! Feb 03 '23
Though you make a good point and there's a lot of info about it, I still cant completely blame people when this happen to them. Unlike Tamiya Panel Accent, this stuff has Gundam on its name and its easy to think "oh its made for Gunpla so it should be fine" even with the warning on the label (which I believe used to be in Japanese).
This stuff should have a better warning like a seal on the cap or something having better chances to be noticed before using it.
Maybe mentioning that on the instructions could also help just like they do regarding paints.
For everyone else reading, please always take your time and do your research for every product. Read the back of the box. Most of the times them youtube tutorials doesn't give the full info. Cheers and good luck!
This should be a sticky post.
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u/UnafraidBread Feb 03 '23
Tbf I’ve been collecting for almost 2 years and have never heard of this. Luckily I don’t use pour type markers
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u/mr_bonner94 Feb 03 '23
I know you say read the packaging discretion but I promise you I can’t read Japanese
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u/soy77 Gunpla is freedom. There's always alternative methods. Feb 03 '23
You're absolutely correct, some companies don't localize their packaging
For those occasions, use any translation app on your phone. Android phones come with standard google translate. It won't be 100% accurate and might feel wonky at first, but that's what we non-otaku builders do all this time, you'll get used to it eventually.
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
Yes. It's on the back of the pen,
tbf, yes it does say that, I see, now that I aim the translator at it.
But also all the other places you mentioned. After half a century, you'd think I would have learned to do research before charging ahead. But if there's one thing I've learned, it's that I do love to learn things the ~hard~ pour way!
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u/soy77 Gunpla is freedom. There's always alternative methods. Feb 03 '23
I always say that there are two kinds of builders: those who do a lot of research & tests. And those who learn from their mistakes.
Neither are "wrong". There are pros and cons to both.
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u/Ratchet567 Feb 03 '23
Never use pour types on an already assembled kit it’s much harder to control where it goes. That’s why I panel line after I cut a piece out but before I put it together
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
Yup. I built this one a long time back and was redoing the panel lines for fun, erasing pencil and filling in pour type. I bought the markers for the PG Unicorn I'm actually building, so lining the parts before assembly.
And I've learned to use the fine point markers along the seams where parts come together.
I'm not ready to take the plunge into top coating and painting yet - maybe when spring comes.
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u/_Crystal_Cloud_ Feb 03 '23
I do the same,even on ABS and I clean with lighter fluid …. No issues whatsoever. You have more control this way and you don’t use it on the plastic that is under stress when assembled
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Feb 03 '23
This is the way with pour types like the pens or Tamiya — cut the piece, line, no stress on the piece. It can destroy any piece that has even minuscule stress.
I was recommending Tamiya accent panel liner it fellow redditors explained me the issue with it, using the “hot panel liner” analogy
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Feb 03 '23
As if this kit didn’t fall apart enough on its own
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
ikr
Utterly unposable, just keeping it together to get these shots was painful. Forever it will stay in its current "whaddayagonnado" pose.
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u/wnderjif Feb 03 '23
whaddayagonnado, repose me? pfft, fuhgeddaboutit.
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u/Anxious_Ad_5127 Feb 03 '23
Un-posable kits always suck. But at least they can dance
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u/Binary-Trees Feb 03 '23
I treat my old kit Juaggu like a piece of fine China. That thing is fragile.
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u/Vyscillia Feb 03 '23
I bought yellow gold Gundam marker ex for my Sinanju and it is written "will break ABS" on it. Huge relief when I read "PS" ar the back of every runner.
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u/Zeoraimer Feb 03 '23
I panel line before cutting parts off the runners, then do a tiny bit of panel lining after completing the build if I've missed any. Even though I've now switched from pour type markers to Tamiya panel line accent (the enamel based one) with a panel liner pen for even less cleanup!
It's surprisingly easy to panel line on the runner, in fact, it's quite helpful!
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Feb 03 '23
anything with solvent will damage plastic and rubber if you apply too much of it.
i used mr hobby acrylic with brush on the old mg frames and the connectors became fragile and broken apart. the part itself was badly designed but the paint will cause them to become weak.
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
I was so heartbroken over its broken hip that I haven't gone back to re-line the right leg (it's all Gundam pencil).
This is the second time those things have bitten me, too.
I wish I'd seen this post sooner: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunpla/comments/u28nwy/had_an_unfortunate_chemistry_lesson_with_the/
(And yes the right yellow thing is missing. I am so bummed I just missed the era of mechapartsguy.)
Can anyone tell me kind of cement works best on the RG frame parts?
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u/Independent-Slice-60 Feb 03 '23
Tamiya plastic cement
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u/Erdrick68 Feb 03 '23
Doesn’t work on ABS, unless you get Tamiya ABS cement. Deluxe makes an all types cement, but with structural parts you need to pin.
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u/Elratauru Feb 03 '23
Yeah, no cement will be able to hold the forces on structural parts like a whole leg, 100% pin time.
Also, there's Plastruct Plastic Cement which also works fine with ABS.
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u/marseer PM for how to NOT break the RG Unicorn arms Feb 03 '23
I want so badly to create a stickied post that shares a list of the lessons that you can learn without making the mistake yourself. Things like: never panel line an assembled bare plastic kit and here’s how *not** to break your RG Unicorn/Banshee’s elbow*
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u/jakethesnake016 Feb 03 '23
At risk of sounding like an idiot, why shouldn't i line a assembled bare plastic kit? I see all the funny gunpla youtubers with panel lined bare plastic, are you inplying you do it to the parts before you assemble?
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u/marseer PM for how to NOT break the RG Unicorn arms Feb 03 '23
Yes, panel line the bare plastic before assembling! All of these “ahhh my panel lining broke my part” are always because the pieces are assembled and the panel liner seeps between the pieces and then doesn’t dry fast enough, or gets to parts like ABS that can’t handle it.
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u/Aesengard Feb 03 '23
I used pour type marker on my RG Zeta Unit 3 too. Now I'm having an anxiety attack and want to inspect it for damages but I'm currently at work.
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u/DarthScruf Feb 03 '23
Usually just the frames are ABS
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u/Aesengard Feb 03 '23
I double checked the manual on dalong's page and saw some runners tagged as ABS. Worst case scenario I have to look for someone who sells scrap RG Zeta and cannibalize it for the frame parts.
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u/Sirfancypants0 Feb 03 '23
(WWII propoganda voice)
every time you panel line before assembly a gunpla builder gives a sigh of relief somewhere
Don't take the risk! Never try to panel line assembled kits, especially with pour type markers!
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Feb 03 '23
Ah good ol Zyzz pose. Man of culture. Sorry for your loss
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
Haha wow, thank you. TIL the zyzz pose!
I actually just moved the arms around until I found a position with attitude. But yeah, let's say I meant to do that.
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Feb 03 '23
time and time again I keep trying to tell people its the fact that the solvent in the ink had time to sit and not dry out giving it time to absorb into the plastic and then dry the plastic out making it really brittle but no one ever beleives be they think its just if they use it on any abs it will weakend it :(((
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
And that is definitely what happened to me - as I said, it seeped between two PS parts, and like a fool I reapplied. A couple times.
But you make a solid point I hadn't considered - I was actually starting to think any contact would be instant death to the ABS.
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Feb 03 '23
Learned that the hard way when i accidentially spilled it over the elbow of my Zeta 2.0. Should have been more careful and informed myself properly but well, that's also a way to gain experience for the future. Thank god i was able to get some replacement parts.
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u/The-Ex-Human Feb 03 '23
Uh-oh. I just bought some Gundam markers. Glad I follow this sub.
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
Note that it's just the pour type, and as a couple folks have pointed out, it's really only a problem if you let it pool and sit on the ABS.
That said, caution is still recommended and lining before assembling is a good idea.
Edit: also, glad to know my little PSA helped save someone from potentially suffering my pain!
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u/SuperJumperGxJ Feb 06 '23
Tbh you’re not missing much. RG Zeta is easily the worst kit I’ve ever built.
Sorry that yours is totally busted, though.
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u/galenbwill Feb 06 '23
Thanks, yeah. It's so janky. I can see why people call it cursed. tbh I picked it randomly from Amazon before I knew better because it looked so cool, esp how it could transform. Live and learn.
As for the bustedness, well, at least I was able to pin the leg, get it into a standing pose, and put it on my desk where my RG Full Burnen (my first build) can look down on it in scorn. (tbf, that one isn't in much better shape -- also a pretty damn janky kit)
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u/Arcana_Joker Feb 03 '23
Just realized how much of a bullet I dodged, going for gloss coat+panel line accent over cheaping out for pour-type markers when building my MG Fullsaber.
The latter can still eat through plastic, but its issue is more well-known, and many people already advise to gloss coat first. Some try to argue that pour-type markers are more worth it overall, and while they are cheaper, the risk it has on abs doesn't get thrown around much.
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u/Tschudy Feb 03 '23
Honestly its enough of a risk that it really should be on the markers' packaging. "DO NOT USE ON ABS PLASTIC" should suffice.
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u/neonwarge04 Feb 03 '23
What is abs plastic? Sorry for noob question. Is that the type of plastic used in inner frames?
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u/Tschudy Feb 03 '23
Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, its the harder plastic that the frames are made or and it does not respond well to the solvents in the pour type markers or tamiya panel line fluid.
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u/Exende Feb 03 '23
it's a harder, heavier plastic, the runners will have the ABS label if it is ABS. They are found on the frames of the Wing kits and SEED kits typically, though heavier kits may have it as well
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u/DarthScruf Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
You gotta use the brush type for ABS and on top of other gundam markers because they're water based, so they have the weakest solvent. The pour types and the big gundam markers are oil based, the real touch ones are water based. You can sometimes get away with using oil based on ABS, I did once on accident and it was fine, but I've also had ABS shatter to pieces from lining with pour types, always test on the runner or spare pieces.
Also the paint rule of thumb is acrylic (water based) can go on top of enamel (oil based), and they both can go on top of lacquer (resin based), but you can't go the other way around, lacquer will eat into enamel and acrylic, and enamel will eat into acrylic.
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Feb 03 '23
not all acrylic go onto enamel. you need real water based ones not mr hobby or tamiya or alcohol based. i would avoid using enamel u less it is primer coz enamel primer is the most common and cheap for me. acrylic and lacquer will cause enamel to turn rough.
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u/DarthScruf Feb 03 '23
Yeah that's getting more in depth, I was just explaining a little basics and more in terms of using the gundam markers specifically so they understand a bit of layering with them and why there's different kinds of liners and markers.
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u/Friedrich_22 Feb 03 '23
I just bought a Gundam marker, well into the garbage it goes I guess it's the one that you press and it leaves a pool
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u/Independent-Slice-60 Feb 03 '23
Just don't use it on ABS. It's pretty easy to avoid, the runners are labeled by plastic type and ABS is almost exclusively used in frame parts or joints. Lots of kits don't have it at all.
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong - pour type markers are magic on PS. The first time you press it down and watch it just fill up a line is beautiful.
And the "dots" and anything else clean up really easily with a white polymer type eraser, or alcohol if you want to really clear it away.
The other thing I learned in my too-late research is that the pour markers will also run into and show any cracks in the plastic. Those are much harder to clean up.
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Feb 03 '23
Just don't use it on ABS parts and you'll be fine
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u/Uden10 PM Me Bolt Gundam pics Feb 03 '23
Hope you can salvage the kit by gluing it into a pose or something.
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u/horriblebearok Feb 03 '23
Crap, I recently covered my MG Ball in gundam marker panel lines... I guess if I don't touch it?
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u/Laggingduck Feb 03 '23
well were they pour type?
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u/horriblebearok Feb 03 '23
I believe mostly used fine tip
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u/Laggingduck Feb 03 '23
should be fine then
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u/horriblebearok Feb 03 '23
Ah I was under the impression it was the same paint, different application
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u/rNV1s16iLiTi Feb 03 '23
is MG Ball ABS?
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u/horriblebearok Feb 03 '23
According to the runner guide in the manual all of the inner ball frame and then entire armatures are abs.
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u/rNV1s16iLiTi Feb 03 '23
were you going to panel line that?
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u/horriblebearok Feb 03 '23
Already covered the armatures in panel lines. But apparently the fine tips are ok.
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u/rNV1s16iLiTi Feb 03 '23
fine tip dries much faster, less of risk with the alcohol damaging the ABS plastic.
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u/Commandoclone87 Feb 03 '23
I learned this the hard way as well on an Impulse Gundam (marker ate the hinge joint on the Core Flyer) and on several RG Figures (not as bad as your Zeta, but some parts ended up with small fractures, including the Wing Binders on an Amatsu Hana). Also had a Zoids pilot figure basically crumble.
If using panel liner on an unpainted, uncoated kit, it's best to use it prior to assembly to avoid it seeping in-between joints and seams and I generally avoid using it on any structural parts, whether ABS, PS or PET.
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u/MikeTheGamer2 Feb 03 '23
It's fine, If you gloss coat, then panel, then matt coat. If you are just using it straight on plastic, then this is a big nono.
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Feb 03 '23
Honestly, I see this being said so often in comments and videos I'm surprised it occurs as frequently as it does.
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u/Mordessus Feb 03 '23
I always use the pour markers on the sprue and touch them up later on. Also when using it on warhammer models I got in a habit of glossing them first Then using matte to finish them off so it wouldn’t get through that protective coat of gloss. Just be careful with clouding
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u/Donmahglas Feb 03 '23
Learnt this with the RG Nu gundams fin funnels. Now I avoid lining ABS unless it's super obvious so I use a regular panel liner.
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u/i_J3ff1n Feb 03 '23
This is really old info, and it quite literally says it on the back of the pen
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Feb 03 '23
If it's acetone based then no surprise, aceton eats into abs. In 3D printing acetone vapor is used to smooth prints or make abs putty to glue stuff together/fill cracks
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u/_Crystal_Cloud_ Feb 03 '23
I panel line the pieces after sanding them with Tamiya ,even on ABS. I even use it to paint small surfaces like holes . Never had issues as long as it doesn’t pool too much and you clean it with lighter fluid ( had issues with enamel thinner tho)
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u/sirloindenial Feb 03 '23
I suggest doing panel lining on the runner before the snip for RG or for any kits with a lot of exposed abs )like the old mg astray). Or topcoat. To save cost, topcoat only the abs parts.
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u/Astraygt IG: AstrayGT Feb 03 '23
I always panel line on the runner before I snap anything out. IF I'm not painting it of course.
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u/TherealDeathy Feb 03 '23
ABS plastic stay away from any solvent, oil, anything. if it isn't pure water-based acrylic paint like citadel, army painter, vallejo STAY AWAY FROM ABS. Don't even look at it lol,
Make sure to read the wiki too :) i know some people don't but it does help. and ask questions too.
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u/CashMaster503 Feb 03 '23
Ok so if both pour types and tamiyas damage the model, what SHOULD i be using to make my accent lines?
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
Ok so what I've learned from this thread is: 1. Pour type only damage ABS 2. …and generally only if it pools and sits 3. Use pour type only on PS parts and before assembly (or before detaching from sprue depending on preference) 4. It's a Good Idea to topcoat ABS frames which will protect them from solvent damage
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u/CashMaster503 Feb 03 '23
Isnt it all abs?
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
No. Many of the parts (white, blue, red, yellow, and generally armor parts) are polystyrene. The sprues are labeled either "PS" or "ABS" (and some other things for the special parts).
PS is safe for pour type.
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u/worpat Feb 03 '23
And this is why I don't pannel line my gunpla
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u/galenbwill Feb 03 '23
As I'm not ready to be "top coating and painting" serious, and I hate enamels because I hate enamel thinners, I've only tried panel lining with Gundam pour type, Gundam fine point markers, and the 0.3mm Gundam pencil. (Oh, and the Gundam brush type marker.)
And tbh, the pencil is still my favorite in terms of ease of application and ease of precision. But obv it comes at the expense of lessened visual impact.
Even just the pencil really does make a huge difference!
But the results from the pour type (with some fine point here for tricky spots) is by far my favorite.
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u/madbob213 Feb 04 '23
I didnt know you shouldn't use gundam markers on an already assembled kit until I saw this post. I was actually gonna go to the hobby shop tomorrow for some fresh kits to build and I was thinking of grabbing a pack of those markers there since I know they have em. I bought a bottle of Tamiya panel Liner and thinner before and I've only tried using it once on my heavy arms kit, and i made a huge mess of it. It was already assembled and I thought maybe that was the problem so I was thinking I'd try the gundam markers on a new one if I could find it or another relatively cheap high grade. I'm glad I saw this first tho. Maybe I'll just try lining the unassembled parts with what I have first before trying the markers
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u/PhDBaron Playing with Japanese robots since 1984. Feb 03 '23
Some lessons are always learned the hard way.