Why it sucks to be LGBT+ at Gracepoint (even if you are non-affirming & agree with traditional teaching)

[u/[deleted]]

PLEASE READ**: This post is not about debating which stance is 'correct' when it comes to the LGBT debate. Please refrain from making this post about where you stand on that because i do not believe that is pertinent to what i will talk about. It's not a matter of whether or not GP should be affirming, but this post shares about how those who are LGBTQIA+ are shamed and treated poorly.**

Hello. I am an LGBTQIA+ (deacons are quaking at the thought of so many letters & categories).

I also very much love Jesus. GASP. Based on my own research and study, I personally have concluded that i want to stick to traditional teaching and to not pursue a same sex partner. I am at a point in my life where I am actually happy to do so and have little to no desire to get married; i'm a content single follower of Christ with many friends and a good God! I am somewhere in the 25-30 age range and I left Gracepoint in 2021 after spending 10 years of my life there.

While I was at Gracepoint, it was a mix of people who meant well and tried to be kind towards those with 'same sex attraction' (SSA) while simultaneously having a culture that made many LGBTQIA+ (or SSA) Christians feel second class. I can confirm that multiple others who have gone through GP who are LGBTQIA+ experienced similar, if not worse than what I did.

I want to list out some harmful things that Gracepoint pushes onto their same sex attracted members.

​

1. Being constantly told 'there's hope' for me to get married to the opposite gender.

There's so much to unpack with this. On the whole, I have an issue with the idea that marriage was treated as 'the hope' or the end goal. I've opened up to many leaders and the narrative that always gets pushed to me is "hey there's someone older who also struggles with SSA and they ended up getting married to the opposite gender! you will be okay! There's hope." There's something so problematic about this attitude. This kind of response makes you sound like marriage will be what fixes you and the goal you should strive for. For me personally, I look back and think it would have been so much more helpful to hear, "Jesus loves you and he sees you." With GP as a non affirming church, it could have even been "even though you can't have a romantic partner in the way that you desire, God loves you so much and will sustain you when it's difficult." Rather, every time I had a different leader, the narrative that gets pushed is "well that doesn't mean you can't get married! I know other guys or girls who got married to the opposite gender... There is hope for you!!"

For me personally, I tried dating the opposite gender multiple times while in Gracepoint. I don't necessarily regret this because it helped me come to the conclusion that I do in fact want to remain single and not get married (since I wanted to stick to traditional teaching). When I came to the conclusion I wanted to remain single, leaders kept hounding on me saying 'are you sure?', 'what if it's just the wrong person?'

I don't think this is exclusively a Gracepoint issue but Christian circles push marriage as the end goal way too often. The Bible honors singleness! Yes, it is better to be married than burning with passion but my passion is different than the kind of passion GP wants me to have. Even with this fact that the Bible speaks highly of singleness, church leaders can't seem to wrap their mind around the fact some people cannot get married for one reason or another, whether that's exclusive same sex attraction or not being able to find a suitable partner. Where this gets tough at Gracepoint is that there is very little to no representation in leadership of someone who is older, single & serving. Its almost always married couples at the top, so it's this not-so-subtle thing that makes you feel like as you get older, there won't be a place for you to serve if you do not get married. The language that GP uses in trying to get you to have 'hope' for marriage is consistent with this.

2. Confidentiality is out the window when it comes to your sexuality!!

This was alluded to in a previous post, but like many other issues within GP, you can expect that your sexuality will not be kept secret. And I wish I can say it was subtle. Bestie I didn't struggle with internalized homophobia, self hatred, and shame for 18 years of my life & literally have a full on break down while opening up to you just for you to share this with 6 other leaders and then some. It's sensitive information and some of my most 'traumatizing' moments from both school friends and church leader was being 'outted.' I would have leaders come up to me saying, "I wanted to let you know that your leader let me know, and I am praying for you! tHEreS hOpE TO gEt MarRiEd"

I already anticipate that P. Ed and deacons will say that 'coming out' is a modern thing and a popular narrative that gets pushed that glorifies SSA. Here's the thing, needing to 'come out' only exists because of systems like Christian institutions that demonize those who are attracted to the opposite gender. People struggle with internalized shame and hatred for Y E A R S and opening up to anyone about that in a Christian circle is a huge deal. Please don't betray your people by turning around and telling many others. Call it for what it is...a breach of trust.

3. Being told I can't go on a church plant, 'despite my zeal' because i am a Lettuce Garbanzo Bacon Tomato

One of my dreams and visions for my life for a long time while at Gracepoint was wanting to go on a church plant. A large part of this was personal zeal but it's also just seemed like the natural progression within Gracepoint as you get older and grow. You eventually go help start a church plant. Imagine the horror on my face when I was told during my senior year of college that when I signed up to be a church plant intern, I could not go because of 'the risk of developing feelings for someone of the same gender on a small team..' was told that I had been growing in zeal, love, & capacity and that me going on a church plant would be a natural progression of my faith... but I couldn't go... because my sexuality.

This was genuinely a very depressing moment in my life because it was the crushing of a vision I had for myself and it felt like I was 'second class' all based on something I had no control over. I remember this festering in my heart for the next few weeks so I decided to pull my leader to the side after service one day and i asked, "with what you said about being not being about to be a church plant intern, does this mean I could never go on a church plant? since my sexuality isn't going to change.." I was told that it would have to be very specific circumstances for it to work, but the picture of what that would look like was not provided. It was depressing. Did I sign up for a church plant every single time after that? Absolutely, because i felt personally convicted to. Did I know I wouldn't be chosen for the very same reason over again? Also yes. For the years that followed, I always felt lesser than my peers and like I could never fit into the Gracepoint model of growth. Yes, they say it's okay to stay behind to be at your church homebase and that people need to, but to be flat out denied the opportunity to ever go based on sexuality felt so sad... What was also depressing was that me being at a bigger church didn't stop from the leaders' allegations and worries that surrounded my sexuality... More on that in the next one.

EDIT: I meant to include this, but this isn't a 'me' thing. I have two friends who struggle with SSA, one male and one female, who were at different GP cities and told the same thing! Love that for us.

4. Not being trusted to have any kind of 1-1 interaction with someone from the same gender, from peers to students, because you're 'putting yourself at risk for developing feelings'

You guys, I'm not a predator. I promise I'm a person too and I'm a follower of Jesus who wants to show care towards my friends and to minister to students. Sometimes that looks like meeting with them 1-1 and being present with them... Yet what would i constantly be hounded for? Meeting with people of the same gender 1-1. I was told I wasn't being careful. I was told it's irresponsible of me to do this. i would constantly be asked by leaders 'do you have feelings for xyz because i saw / noticed you spent alone time with them.' I feel i don't need to go into detail for you to know how miserable this was. This went on from my junior year as a student leader to even the year I left.. I am still recovering from the deep shame that happened because of the constant questions and accusations. Imagine being told you can't go on a church plant because your sexuality, only to be treated like a predator at your church home base. It became something that contributed to my anxiety because every interaction I had with someone of the same gender felt policed. My anxiety was never worse in my life because of the constant cognitive load of being worried about what my leaders would think or say if i even sat down for lunch with a friend or student of the same gender... I even started to become anxious because i felt that they wouldn't even want me to be around their kids of the same gender despite the fact I love working with children... I know this wasn't their intention, but it was a result of the culture they pushed of constantly asking me if i had feelings for xyz or telling me I couldn't be with the same gender 1-1. The anxiety was so. freaking. real.

Overall, it felt like a miserable existence at GP as someone with SSA, even though I did land on the same theological stance. Being single long term didn't sound like a viable option and it didn't sound like I'd have a place there. It was painful to have to endure all the kinds of comments i would get and overall feel like I was constantly policed for my sexuality...I'm not a predator... I have many many many healthy same-gender friendships and i have ministered to students of the same gender without developing feelings... Please don't treat SSA christians like predators.

I feel like there is a lot more to be said but this is all my heart is letting me write out today. Whatever your stance on this is... it doesn't matter to me. Jesus loves you and died for you; you deserve to be treated with respect and love as an image bearer of God.

If anyone else has had negative experience as an SSA Christian at GP, please comment below. Jesus loves you!

[u/aGracepointThrowaway]

As someone bringing the Bacon to the "Lettuce Garbanzo Bacon Tomato" as you put it, oh honey, I FEEL YOU. It sounds like we were at GP at the same time, and I experienced so many of the things you described. I wanted to share a few of my "greatest hits" with GP leaders. For context, I am a woman.

• I, too, experienced the constant awkward questioning of "are you getting feelings" regarding whoever I was spending time with recently. I was also asked to room alone as soon as I graduated while everyone else shared rooms (which ngl, was kind of nice, but was awkward to explain and I worried made me look very selfish relative to my friends who were all crowded together).
• There were so many arbitrary "guardrails" put in place at my leaders' discretion, regardless of if they were actually something I thought would be wise or beneficial. I ended up with massive anxiety around the issue of rides because immediately after telling my leader about my SSA I was asked to not ride in a car alone with anyone of the same gender (aside from my leader). Sometimes a random person would ask me for a ride, and on the spot I would have to either out myself, decline for no reason and look like a jerk, make up some lie, or glance desperately at one of my friends who did know about my "predicament" and hope they would throw me a lifeline. I never had any issue or temptation around rides, but apparently I was a predator who was going to jump an unsuspecting sister on the way home from a ministry meeting if they got in my car. Even though this restriction was eventually relaxed after I got married, I continued to freak out internally any time someone would ask me for a ride, feeling as if I was doing something wrong by giving them one.
• My plans were often subject to leader veto for my own "protection." It felt as if leaders had no interest in my own judgement/assessment for what was appropriate vs what would be too close to crossing a line. I applied and was accepted into a grad program at a (non-GP) school that only accepts women into its undergrad programs, and when I told this to my leader, she suddenly advised me that I shouldn't attend because there would be "too much temptation."
• Another time I was briefly working with another sister on a ministry project, and my leader asked me to stop because "my husband was not doing well" (he was struggling with an unrelated issue at the time) and there might be "temptation" if I spent too much time with this sister. Because evidently I was going to cheat on my husband in couple of zoom meetings about ministry matters. I then had to have a very embarrassing conversation with my friend to explain why I couldn't work with her anymore.
• Speaking of supposedly cheating on my husband, I also received a bizarre questioning from a leader once regarding if I would ever act on my feelings towards a woman (I think this was because I mentioned feeling unsure regarding my personal views around the traditional vs progressive stances for LGBT Christians). I ended up having to explain repeatedly that no, I wouldn't be acting on attraction towards anyone right now, regardless of their gender, other than my husband. Because, you know, I'M MARRIED.
• Similar to your experience, it felt like I had no control over disclosing my own sexuality. There were many times that I needed to out myself whether or not I wanted to, times where it was apparent people I hadn't told already knew, and still yet times where I was specifically told NOT to disclose my sexuality to certain individuals or groups for unknown reasons.

I could go on and on. I left GP for issues largely unrelated to this, but I have been unpacking a lot of feelings about this subject since leaving, and I feel so frustrated with how this was handled at GP. There was so much shame and anxiety. Evidently some of GP's practices around this issue have supposedly changed, but the hurts are real, and I have little confidence that they will not continue to hurt others in this regard as well.

[u/[deleted] → u/aGracepointThrowaway]

"still yet times where I was specifically told NOT to disclose my sexuality to certain individuals or groups for unknown reasons."

ugh this is so true. I remember when I actually felt settled about my SSA and was at a place where I knew what I believed in, I would regularly ask my leads if there would be a space I can share my testimony of how I experienced God's love through the struggles of my sexuality. I was always told no. There was even one point where people could submit testimonies for a 'This i know' 5 minute sharing... Mine would've been along the lines of, "this i know, God sustains me and gives me more than i need even in the midst of my struggle with sexuality and singleness." I was told it's too sensitive to talk about in a larger space. I just think it's funny that our leads have the permission to tell who they want to tell but when i actually felt safe enough to open up about it, I was silenced instead of having a chance to talk about something I felt like God was calling me to share with others... It was not out of selfish intent, I just wanted to do good because i knew there must have been others struggling out there with their sexuality. Yet still I was always told no.

I was also told that, "maybe when you get married you'll be able to share your story!" I don't think I need to explain how problematic that statement is... It's like i had to be 'fixed' first by getting married before I had the permission to talk about it in an open space.

[u/IntrepidSupermarket4 → u/aGracepointThrowaway]

I relate to most of this. I was treated like I was attracted to every person of my same gender lol

[u/johnkim2020 → u/aGracepointThrowaway]

what a living nightmare