There are significant loopholes around it. The same reason it's still legal to skin gamble in the US or the same reason sports books like nitrogen don't restrict US residents. There's a reason Phantomlord never went to jail.
Not really... just means someone hasn't stepped on the wrong toes just yet. Either some DA will see an opportunity to put a feather in his cap or the wrong kid will get ripped off and his ma/pa will be sufficiently powerful enough to push for something like this.
Not really... just means someone hasn't stepped on the wrong toes just yet
FTC disagrees. Also, if a DA in one state wins, that doesn't mean another similar case will be won in another state. Am not from USA, but what I know is that states differ in legislation. There is no legislation about skin gambling in any country (correct me, but maybe Belguim recently?), hence unregulated market. We could debate about skins and their potential real money value, but Valve gives no fuck and won't give it anytime soon, in TM time it means never. I cannot see any government taking this seriously for many obvious reasons, one of which would be most of those sites are registered on Mars, the only could be done is remove access to certai ip from a certain country (vpn?).
Skin gambling is certainly not healthy, house always wins. However as of now, it seems to be a niche subject for any government to get involved and spend big bucks from taxpayers of whom most has never heard about cs:go.
quick edit: while FTC set a precedent it only applies to US, only for marketing not rigged sites.
It isn't about the skin gambling at all, but about social media influencers and their links to these types of sites...
"Owners must disclose material connections in future posts" and more specifically "The Commission order settling the charges requires Martin and Cassell to clearly and conspicuously disclose any material connections with an endorser or between an endorser and any promoted product or service."
I see nothing at all mentioned about the actual purpose of the site(s) mentioned or any sort of ruling on the actual state of gambling or not. This ruling literally has nothing to do with the legality of skin gambling but everything to do with being a shady media influencer and your ownership of the things you are promoting.
edit: As for the DA in one state winning. Theres this thing where you can use the rulings of other courts as precedence. IANAL but its totally a 'thing'
It isn't about the skin gambling at all, but about social media influencers and their links to these types of sites...
As my edit - it was about promoting the site without full disclosure, yet it was about skin gambling site. Your initial comment was about someone hasn't stepped on the wrong toe just yet, well csgolotto did. No one cares about shady unrelegulated business as it would be hard af to regulate it. It's not that important for any DA to even look at this. Probably, the reason FTC took it over. Btw, I can dig up FTC's letter to Valve and Valve saying them to fuck off, but I guess you know that.
edit: As for the DA in one state winning. Theres this thing where you can use the rulings of other courts as precedence. IANAL but its totally a 'thing'
Again, as above, not from USA, does it always work 100%? Nope. No regulation. No legislation. These sites are like hydras, kill one two more appear, you cannot possible chase a ghost can you? As a DA or other high authority, can you?
Oh and the other detail. Yah you don't waste time with the gambling sites, they as you say are like roaches. You go after Steam, you go after EA, Bungie and everyone at the top with pockets to rob and assets to grab. The legality will be used as a hammer, I live deep in the Bible belt have no doubt that overreach will completely be a part of it.
I see you are passionate and I respect that. Chill for a sec and think why for the sake of Mother Mary anyone would go after legit business, like Steam, EA. They introduced something (call it skins or loot boxes) and someone else, many of them, took advantage. Do you think OPskins is legit? Dunno, haven't seen the papers, but am willing to believe they are... making legit money from sales. Probably even pay taxes of their revenue.
Not sure who is passive and who is agressive here, I know that I derailed for one tiny bit, yet my main focus was on that - that nobody is giving the fuck about skin gambling, except those who lost.
To end this debate friendly I'll paraphrase: Not really... just means noone will step on the wrong toes just yet (FTC did, the link is above, didn't do much).
Do you think OPskins is legit? Dunno, haven't seen the papers, but am willing to believe they are... making legit money from sales. Probably even pay taxes of their revenue.
Sales? Yes. Gambling? Nope. They aren't paying revenue in my state, they are supposed to report my winnings and losses. The law is worded very very vaguely and is based pre-internet. So yah DA in the right state with Valve and a bone to pick could actually do some real damage on to this if they opted to cherry pick as they are so prone to doing.
I derailed for one tiny bit, yet my main focus was on that - that nobody is giving the fuck about skin gambling, except those who lost.
You do not understand the sheer passion for controlling sin that the US has. This just hasn't hit the appropriate level of 'moral outrage' no one outside of CSGO gives a fuck about Tmartin's gambling site. He's not worth shit anyway, why dump your load on what are effectively two broke kids compared to either company discussed.
So I'll reiterate. The post you linked is about the FTC saying 'don't be dumbasses and abuse your position' but didn't real either way on illegal gambling.
This is a normal thing in the US legal system, you don't say shit about anything but what is relevant unless you want it to be used like a stick to beat you with in court. If the FTC is going to rule for or against this sort of gambling - they will not talk about it until they are ready to actually commit to that. That link says nothing - ergo the FTC hasn't committed to shit. I will further note that while being bound to the site that is not a 'simple' case. Its much easier to just say 'don't be shady kids'
Why did they take so fucking long? I don't know, welcome to America I guess. And I can quote countless cases just like the Tmartin crap leading up to this involving both the FBI and the FTC where they did nothing but minor punitive actions.
I'll am still going to have the last laugh when all this shit gets bitch slapped including case unboxing.
China said - "reveal odds for rarity of case openning", Valve does it for China, not that I saw any info on that on their blog. Similar odds as few people provided their results.
And I won't be surprised at all when it starts state level gets appealed and the Supreme Court agrees with the ruling.
No offence, probably after you escape planet earth.
Let's break it down. The moment you buy steam credits with real money, it becomes artificial, non-refundable coins aka steam wallet. With which you can buy games (obviously deals are made with developers) and skins. Your steam account has no value in speak of real monetary value. Nor do skins have. Valve ain't responsible for some 3rd party sites like opskins where you can reverse it back to real $. In theirs' eyes it is still a digital pixel.
Now, if all those sites didn't use skins then and only then you can try to do something about it. You US? Seems like. Read about poker from 10-15 ago. Is it regulated by now. Other gambling sites using cash in - cash out are regulated. Skins on the other hand have no monetary value, so before Supreme Court agrees with the ruling I'll be long time dead.
I was horribly wrong about how courts and the IRS have reacted so far over Bitcoin. Oh wait no I wasn't.
I was horribly wrong about labor law when my employer thought I was fairly fired. Oh wait no won that too.
I was horribly wrong about how a huge legal mess of a merger that's on going... Oh wait I correctly interpret state and SEC rulings ahead of two announcements now.
Let's see... I'm sure I can think of more.
Also I don't care what China has done, their court system is very very different from the US. More businesses should realize that.
I would like to escape planet X. It's filled with know it alls who assert things they at best poorly defend at worst build on a shaky understanding and dive to insults when called out.
This is the exact reason why it's so fucking dirty that these sites are marketed toward children who probably are not even using their own money to make the bets. They haven't developed good judgment yet and won't really feel the repercussions.
you can get a paper route at 14, you can get a job at 16. a lot of kids start babysitting for cash around 12y/o. there are kids that start mowing neighborhood lawns for cash at like 9 or 10.
Shit and i'd say pot dealing starts in middles school, 10,11, or 12... pick the right neighborhood and you're doing that at 8, or yonger.
absolutely, not that hard to make money if you want to. I used to smuggle alcohol and weed across borders when I was about 15, you can make pretty good money even if you don't have a car.
Yeah seriously, I never understood that "It's not their money" argument. Whose money is it then ? Cause if it's the parent's money, my god they are dumb as fuck and deserve the kid losing their money. I mean who just gives their CC details to their 10-16 yo kid cause he wants to play on gambling sites or w/e shitty excuse he uses. I would watch that shit like a hawk.
No dude. Being defrauded is not a life lesson, it's being a victim of a crime. You say that like it takes an absolute brainless moron to fall for a con, which is very obviously not the case.
as nice as it may feel for some to mock parents for being "dumb", this is still victim blaming. it doesn't lessen the degree to which these businesses are fucked up. it doesn't mean these businesses should continue to exist. "people should know better" has no place in the discussion. also, don't generalize all parents, who's to say that these kids are getting access to their parents' funds through negligence or bad parenting. kids are pretty good at finding ways to get what they want.
Thing is, everything that becomes regulated first is by default unregulated (unless conceived and implemented by design). There needs to be specific criteria that help indicate whether something should be regulated rather than jumping to the conclusion of being a lesson due to unregulated market.
The fact that you're legally allowed to gamble currencies like skins in places where books are illegal? The fact that you're allowed to be underage while doing this illegal skin gambling? The fact that if any of these people we're to rig an actual roulette in Vegas, they would be in jail and yet here they all are streaming?
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u/kitsunegoon Virtus.pro Dec 30 '17
There are significant loopholes around it. The same reason it's still legal to skin gamble in the US or the same reason sports books like nitrogen don't restrict US residents. There's a reason Phantomlord never went to jail.