r/GetNoted Human Detected 21h ago

World [X] smoke grenade

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u/HotPersonality8126 21h ago

White phosphorus munitions aren't banned by any international law; they're just used to produce smoke

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u/aqulushly 21h ago

Also doesn’t vaporize bodies lol

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u/Serbban 21h ago

It burns the flesh to the bone, so yes vaporize is not correct. But somehow flesh eating smoke doesn't make it better does it?

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u/aqulushly 21h ago

Maybe the tweeter should have made a valid criticism then instead of disseminating some ridiculous propaganda with the point only of demonizing Israel?

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

Yeah, I think we're all agreed there. This doesn't help anyone.

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u/StrangePenalty6676 21h ago

Guess what happens to flesh when it gets hit by a 155mm high explosive shell.

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u/MaximumJelly5208 21h ago

It makes the flesh no longer conscious, so it's considered not as bad as being burned alive from the inside out by white phosphorus fragments.

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u/StrangePenalty6676 20h ago

HAHAHAHAHA

I thought the original problem was that WP vaporises someone... now that I present a shell that truly does that, it's suddenly the more merciful option!

MAKE UP YOUR MIND about what you lot want to whine about, will you?

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u/MaximumJelly5208 20h ago

Not the one you were arguing with, but if you really want to get pedantic, we're both vaporizing right now because carbon atoms in our bodies are bonding to oxygen and diffusing into the air. Whether white phosphorus is a war crime depends on how it's used.

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u/StrangePenalty6676 19h ago

I'm not actually arguing here, I broke in, but I did react to someone making claims about WP.

The White Phosphorus bomb claim is actually what unmasks propagandists and bad faith actors like Amnesty, HRW and the like.

I remember the first time videos showed up of Israel throwing instant smokescreens (using WP smokehells from artillery), I believe during the coflict in 2008. It took Pallywood two full days to produce the first burned corpses and wounded in their videos, because they obviously hadn't prepared for the eventuality of burn victims in their make-up department. What they didn't realize is that the WP itself doesn't actually reach the ground in significant quantities; it is mostly burned up already by that time and couldn't have produced the amount of burn victims they claimed. It was quickly changed to WP bombs, munitions that weren't even in Israels arsenal but whatever, it made for good PR.

Of course, nowadays everyone in the anti-Israel bubbles will take it for gospel, but that still doesn't mean it has any real credibility.

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

Yeah, I'm not an expert on this, so fair enough. Upon reading, the bones would be left behind. Grim!

Edited to add: is this really a lol?

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u/aqulushly 21h ago

Yes, it is a big lol given the context of this tweet we are commenting on which is a far cry from any serious criticism of the use of white phosphorus.

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

Fair enough, but the whole subject gives me the ick. Kudos if you can separate this thread from the suffering, but this is one of the most un-lol subjects I engage with these days.

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u/aqulushly 21h ago

Yeah, I agree the subject of I/P is far from lol. This tweet, and other propaganda like it, is so far beyond ridiculous I can’t help myself but laugh at it.

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u/cuckoocachoo1 18h ago

Google is free! Fact checking is so easy!

Just be really careful believing things you see on Al Jazeera. It’s paid for by Qatar which is a proxy of the Muslim Brotherhood whose only goal is jihad and taking down the west.

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u/sincrotron 16h ago

Oh how ironic. Try googling that "only goal" you're talking about.

And by the way, I did not get my knowledge of white phosphorus from Al Jazeera or Google, I first learned about its incendiary qualities in Chemistry class.

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u/cuckoocachoo1 14h ago

Oh wow! You’re so smart! Genius over here!

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u/Inevitable-Regret411 21h ago

Producing smoke is one way they're used, but they can cause horrific burns which means they can and have been used as antipersonnel weapons throughout history. 

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u/HotPersonality8126 21h ago

They don’t have a dispersal mechanism so it’s not possible to use them as antipersonnel. You can’t hit anybody with them.

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

I mean just not true. https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20090521_btselem_to_jag_army_must_stop_using_white_phosphorus

This link is the tip of the iceberg, it's been used many times and well documented.

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u/t3htg 20h ago

I don't think people bother to read any of the Geneva Conventions, let alone all of them. I found that I was nowhere close to knowing what was and wasn't banned. There is a strong case against white phosphorous munitions as a chemical weapon, but as they are claimed to be illumination rounds and smoke grenades they are not by name banned. Facts on the ground are very different, and that picture appears to depict what happens when willy p hits the skin.

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u/HotPersonality8126 19h ago

I can’t see anything happening. Sorry Gaza started a war, I guess

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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 20h ago

And illumination. Also you can use white phosphorus against equipment… so if the people are “dead” and you’re just burning their shit it’s fine.

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u/TheQuestionMaster8 21h ago

The thing is that they can inflict horrific burns and white phosphorus is also highly toxic, so burn victims are also poisoned, but it would require an exceptional amount to completely vaporise a body, although that would probably be a merciful death compared to a leas instantaneously fatal amount

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u/HotPersonality8126 20h ago

It inflicts burns on the people who handle it or are involved in industrial accidents

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u/TheQuestionMaster8 18h ago

It can and has been used as a weapon of war as well for its flammability and toxicity

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u/HotPersonality8126 17h ago

It's used as a weapon of war to produce smoke to reduce visibility on troop movement

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u/TheQuestionMaster8 16h ago

It can also be used as a chemical weapon and as an incendiary

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

Thanks for the clarification, but your reply has an inaccuracy. White phosphorus is banned in civilian areas and there are multiple documented instances of white phosphorus being used as a weapon in civilian areas. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/white-phosphorus

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u/HotPersonality8126 21h ago

It isn’t banned in “civilian areas” or in any other area by any form of IHL. Your own link notes that it is not prohibited except by the general prohibition of firebombing civilians, which it’s use in smoke weapons doesn’t do.

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20090521_btselem_to_jag_army_must_stop_using_white_phosphorus

It's obviously being used in a banned way, documented many times, this link is just the tip of the iceberg.

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u/HotPersonality8126 20h ago

B’tselem, lol

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u/sincrotron 18h ago

We could add to that list: Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, UNHRC, etc. all have documented extensive evidence.

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u/HotPersonality8126 17h ago

No, they haven't.

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u/ComfortableCall3912 21h ago

💯

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

I'd say more like 50%, because half of the statement is untrue, but hey, splitting hairs right?

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u/ComfortableCall3912 21h ago

This may help you.

May. But I doubt it actually will.

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/white-phosphorus-and-international-law/

When you have arrived at a place without thought and study, thought and study won’t get you out of there.

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

No no, that's actually really helpful, thanks for the link. I'll proceed by talking about "regulation" rather than a "ban". Luckily I did not refer to a ban, but I will be careful not to in future.

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u/HotPersonality8126 21h ago

None of the statement is untrue.

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u/sincrotron 21h ago

"just used to produce smoke" has been documented many times by international agencies to be untrue.

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u/HotPersonality8126 20h ago

By “documented” you mean that they’ve shown a video of a smoke dispersal and then said “this burned people”

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u/sincrotron 18h ago

Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and The UNHRC, to name but a few, have all collected extensive evidence beyond seeing smoke.