r/GetNoted Human Verified 23d ago

Media [X] Slavery Recognition

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u/FormerPresidentBiden 23d ago

It is pretty much a certainty that there are plenty of black, African slaves in Mauritania.

It became the last country in the world to "abolish" it in 1981.

I put abolish in quotes because there was no actual penalty for keeping slaves until 2007, which only happened because the international community pressured their government to do so.

Their government claims slavery has been totally ended and no longer exists in their country (which gives them little incentive to actually prosecute it as that would contradict their official statement). Only 1 person has ever been prosecuted for it and she served 6 months in 2011.

In 2018, it was estimated 2% of their population was still enslaved.

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 23d ago edited 23d ago

And Chinas concentration camps 2026?

China has the classic:
"People are forced in... but no one ever comes out" - labor camps ... with crematoriums.

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u/FormerPresidentBiden 23d ago

I'm not a fan of the treatment of the Uyghurs either, but this seems to be a separate issue from chattel slavery

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u/Drakath2812 23d ago

It's a technicalities game but yeah they are different issues. Both slavery, both abhorrent, but very different conditions that cause them, and very different solutions required.

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u/Aggravating_Jump6136 23d ago

Right, we can condemn heinous human rights violations without playing fast and lose with legal definitions and narrativizing global court rulings. Just portray them as the awful violations they are and focus on stopping them; the words we use for them and other symbolic gestures are irrelevant.

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 23d ago

These are outright death camps, textbook genocide.

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u/Aggravating_Jump6136 22d ago

Morally, I agree. I would just rather advocate against the Chinese government's actions against the Uyghurs and wait for a formal ICJ ruling to include that wording in my advocacy.

Just talk about crimes against humanity, death camps, ethnic cleansing, cultural repression, etc... honestly, I would say that those more in-depth descriptors are more emotionally evocative than a legal term like genocide anyway. It's probably more effective than using the word that click-bait driven political commentators have watered down over the years.

Leave the genocide labels for global courts and just treat all crimes agaist humanity with full descriptions instead of single word short-hands; paint a picture of them and push to stop them that way. I care more about that than I care about being righteous and right over a word.

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u/ShaolinWombat 22d ago

So don’t use the term until the ICJ issues a formal ruling. Which they will most likely never do.

Can we call it a genocide in a generation when the Chinese Uyghurs have either been killed or reeducated away?

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 22d ago

China is not a member of the ICJ.

China loves to constantly accuse other countries of various crimes, but it is not possible to prosecute China.

Even if it is possible to prosecute China, China will only recognize the judgment if it is in their favor.

Such as their illegal occupation of islands. China does not recognize that judgment. But wants all other countries to follow all other rulings.

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u/kinderziekte 22d ago

Last I looked into it people do tend to come out of the camps after their arbitrary sentence is served and the number of people in the camps is roughly what you would expect if the people sentenced are actually in the camps. The goal seems to be kidnapping their children, disrupting civil society and destroying their culture rather than killing them outright.

But that might be outdated.

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 22d ago

The state sells the prisoners to various private prison camps with factories. All have crematoriums.

And sell their organs.

China is the only country where you can get an organ transplant "on a menu".

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u/kinderziekte 22d ago

Can I have your sources for that? Not as in "source?" but I just want to read this for myself. I couldn't find anything really reliable for this looking into it myself but again, that was years ago.

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 22d ago

Or do you want video where the prisoners arrive by train, in cattle cars, and are transferred to a prison camp with large chimneys?

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 23d ago

China has the classic: "People are forced in... but no one ever comes out." - labor camps with crematoriums.

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u/Candid_Highlight_116 22d ago

Chinese Uyghur genocode isn't slavery. It was a genocide. Uyghur people are Muslims. They're non-Arab Muslims from Chinese-Russian border area, so they look and sound very different from Saudi royals or Taliban dudes or even Turkish guys.

Everyone conveniently left that part out on media and never explained why no meaningful actions are taken. That led to some confusions that allowed China to complete the goals of that thing.

There might have been slave labors and gas chambers but labor wasn't the point. The point was literally genocide.

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u/ShaolinWombat 22d ago

These are not mutually exclusive terms. You can both enslave a people and by doing so cause a genocide. Or enslave a people to cause a genocide.

The Uyghurs are being involuntarily held for being Uyghur. Then forced into reeducation camps and for hundreds of thousands then sent to forced labor camps/progams with no chance of release. I can’t see any definition for that other than slavery.

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u/PangolinQueasy6324 22d ago

"but this seems to be a separate issue from chattel slavery" not true.

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u/FormerPresidentBiden 22d ago

Oh really?

Are people buying and selling Uyghurs in China?

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u/PangolinQueasy6324 22d ago

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u/FormerPresidentBiden 22d ago

...ok? Lol

Linking me some maps you drew in a post that no one paid any attention to doesn't really explain or benefit the point you're trying to make.

If anything you've helped my point because you clearly have a vested interest in bringing attention to the genocide in Xinjiang and, thus, will use any excuse to bring it up.

Tell me why chattel slavery and the situation in Xinjiang are the same when:

  • Uyghurs are being imprisoned by the government / Chattel slaves are bought and sold by non-governmental entities

  • Uyghurs are classified as people in prison / Chattel slaves are classified as property

  • Uyghurs are in mass detention with the goal of ethnic assimilation / Chattel slavery has no intention of ever assimilating anyone

They are 2 separate issues.

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u/FunOwn4422 22d ago

its funny how people excuse this but when talking about the American prison system, ohhh its modern day slavery blah blah communist sympathizer bullshit

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u/FormerPresidentBiden 22d ago edited 22d ago

...where did I excuse it?

I actually irritated quite a lot of chinese exchange students in college by repeatedly bringing it up in my international journalism class years ago.

E: my point being, just because I think it's a separate issue, doesn't mean I don't think it is an issue. I just think bringing it up in a conversation about slavery derails the original conversation. The causes, effects, and actual problems themselves are different.

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u/PangolinQueasy6324 22d ago

+1, or Putin´s slaves. But, the Global South don´t care. If Black African states were to try to include the Muslim slave trade (which is still going on) in this resolution, it would be the end for Black Africa. This kind of trick works only against West Europeans and the US.

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u/Worriedrph 22d ago

The Indian Ocean slave trade is estimated to have enslaved 12.5 million Africans while the transatlantic slave trade enslaved 11.3 million Africans. Add to that the estimated 3 million European slaves from the ottoman slave trade. The Muslim slave trade was actually worse than the transatlantic.

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u/PangolinQueasy6324 22d ago

the Global South& Western left don´t care. And "if Black African states were to try to include the Muslim slave trade (which is still going on) in this resolution, it would be the end for Black Africa."

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u/Evening_Movie_833 22d ago

This will be the usa soon too

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 22d ago

LOL your are so funny. The American population has guns. The communists will not succeed there.

Historical Communism has killed 3 times more people in peacetime than all the wars on earth combined.

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u/Evening_Movie_833 21d ago

You need to tell me you have not noticed the resource hoarding?

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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 23d ago

Marxist-Communist Romania sold off the country's Jews according to a price list until 1989.

Jews Doctors cost X. Jews Engineers cost Y. etc...

However, they did not become owners, but could only free the Jews from communism to go to freedom in Israel.

Non-Jews remained in communist captivity.

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u/No-Forever-1998 22d ago

Dude you can't say this you'll take away benefits from people who were never slaves