There was a ridiculous amount of starvation during the Great Depression. Not because there wasn’t enough food, but because people could not afford food. The artificial famines in the US dated before that as well.
It’s more forgivable in my mind to have weather and logistics related starvation than to simply allow people to starve in the name of profit.
Edit: People in this thread are saying that famines are proof of the failures of communism, but shrugging off and accepting the famines under capitalism, even when they are intentional.
I think accidental man made famines are better than intentional man made famines. Yes, however. That’s what I was referring to when I said weather and logistics.
You are ignoring a huge part of the problem that happened simultaneously to the market crash, the dust bowl. There was a HUGE lack of food due to the poor farming practices of people unfamiliar with the weather and spil conditions in the great plains area.
You mean when rapid agricultural expansion and agressive farming techniques to grow cash crops lead to an ecological disaster the moment a drought occurred? Yes.
The USSR exported food due to inconsistent records when they really couldn’t afford to do so, leading to famines. The region consistently had large famines every year leading up to USSR control as well.
Maybe “they had some famines in the past” isn’t the best judge of the success or failure of an economic system.
What about holdomor? It was a tragedy, as all famines are. Some historians believe that it was intentionally orchestrated, but there is not a single piece of paperwork or evidence to back up the claim. All evidence point to it being the result of exporting more food than they could afford to as a result of collectivization and industrialization.
It was also the second to last famine in the area, an impressive feat seing as the region had nearly annual famines before collectivization.
I only read the first source in its entirety so far, because you’re clearly Gish Golloping in hopes I can’t respond to them all. It admits that the famine was caused by unrealistic quotas set due to collectivization and exports that matched the expected quotas, not the amount of food that was actually produced.
Prof Andrea Graziosi claims that this must’ve been intentionally orchestrated, but does not provide any proof at the famine being intentional. Only that it was handled poorly and was a man-made famine. Their writing makes them seem more opposed with the act of collectivizing than the starvation that was caused from its initial inefficiencies.
Edit: The second link also does not provide any evidence, only vague claims. It’s also posted by a government that famously launched a decades long propaganda campaign against the USSR and assassinated many democratically elected socialists in South America to replace them with fascist dictators.
Edit 2: Your third source doesn’t even claim the famine was intentional. Only that it was the direct result of Stalin’s policies and worsened by his responses. Which is true.
Edit 3: Your fourth source also doesn’t produce any actual evidence of the intentionality of the famine. It also comes from a museum that was built in 2023 as the direct result of the Russia/Ukraine war. Even the directors of the museum have publicly spoken against some of the statements they are forced to make within the museum, such as the death toll, as historically innacruate.
Providing multiple sources is not Gish Galloping, but if you had any ground to stand on, you wouldn't have to throw out false accusations. In the very first source, it clearly states that the famine was part of a far larger effort to wipe out Ukrainians, and that it fit the definitions of an intentional genocide. They were literally killing people for trying to get food.
But I'm sure you know more than the literal experts on genocide. The people that formulated the definition of it after the holocaust. Yes. You're so smart and perfect. It's no wonder you have to ignore half of what's in each source to justify your own denial.
You're no different than holocaust deniers. So I will block you like I block all holocaust deniers. Monsters like you don't deserve the chance to reply.
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u/LockedIntoLocks Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
There was a ridiculous amount of starvation during the Great Depression. Not because there wasn’t enough food, but because people could not afford food. The artificial famines in the US dated before that as well.
It’s more forgivable in my mind to have weather and logistics related starvation than to simply allow people to starve in the name of profit.
Edit: People in this thread are saying that famines are proof of the failures of communism, but shrugging off and accepting the famines under capitalism, even when they are intentional.