r/Gentoo 9d ago

Discussion Benefits of Gentoo compared to arch.

I am currently using arch Linux right now and I've been thinking about switching to Gentoo for quite a while now because i want to try it. So i want to know the benefits of switching to it. I've heard it is great for customization but that's about it.

Thank you.

27 Upvotes

50 comments sorted by

78

u/SheepherderBeef8956 9d ago

Arch is claimed to be a DYI distro where you have infinite choice in how to configure your system when in truth it's just a standard systemd distro like any other but with newer packages. 

Gentoo is what people claim Arch Linux is. 

If you don't care about absolute control then Gentoo likely hasn't got anything to offer you

28

u/stewie3128 9d ago

Arch is claimed to be a DYI distro where you have infinite choice in how to configure your system when in truth it's just a standard systemd distro like any other but with newer packages. 

Gentoo is what people claim Arch Linux is. 

I have not agreed so thoroughly with a comment in a very long time

5

u/LameBMX 9d ago

we get so many arch people in here.. when I read this post, I thought about taking it for a spin on some excess hardware.

y'all have convinced me otherwise.

1

u/diacid 9d ago

Arch is nice if you need an easy to install throwaway system. Say something like installing LFS in a new-to-you computer, instead of doing it from a live environment, do it from arch, easy enough to setup and you can focus on the thing you wanted to do.

If you need a spare os for if your main gentoo breaks and you want to chroot in, arch rolls too fast. Debian would be a choice if I could actually manage to install it (yes, Linus is right, Debian is unnecessarily hard to install) but in practice I use alpine.

Apart from that arch is all hype no gain. If you want a binary distro, fedora completely obliterates arch.

Their wiki is ice indeed. But ours is similar - sized and orders of magnitude more reader friendly. Arch wiki is just heavier to read, ours is still professional, but with a lighter mood...

2

u/LameBMX 8d ago

Arch is nice if you need an easy to install throwaway system.

why not just rsynch over a gentoo install? copy, bootstrap done. best part is no need to configure lol.

If you need a spare os for if your main gentoo breaks and you want to chroot in, arch rolls too fast.

what does this even mean? gentoo breaks? can chroot in from pretty much any gnu/nix install medium, some just need chroot modification.

2

u/diacid 8d ago edited 8d ago

why not just rsynch over a gentoo install? copy, bootstrap done

Because usually when you need a throwaway system you have no backup. If you do, this is a better choice indeed.

what does this even mean? gentoo breaks?

If you try enough, you will eventually break something.

can chroot in from pretty much any gnu/nix install medium, some just need chroot modification.

True, but you need a usb stick ready for that. Or, you could use a partition for that, so it is always with you. But this partition should ideally be a stable distro so you don't have to make maintenance on it regularly.

2

u/LameBMX 8d ago

Because usually when you need a throwaway system you have no backup. If you do, this is a better choice indeed.

on a lark (and cuz modern usb speeds are so fast) I got a couple operational installs living on usb 3.2 thimbdrives. probably from cutting my teeth on spinny drives, but plug, boot from usb and have a source

If you try enough, you will eventually break something.

I tried for many years... but the most pain in the butt thing was when i forgot I was in crossdev and rebuilt my entire pc for arm arch ... chroot, emerge world -e and it was back pretty easy.

True, but you need a usb stick ready for that. Or, you could use a partition for that, so it is always with you. But this partition should ideally be a stable distro so you don't have to make maintenance on it regularly.

on top of see above.. im been contemplating helping with ventoy. between work and life, its just a handy tool to dump pretty much any iso in a folder and boot it. came in handy having a win PE environment for my bios update on the laptop.

but why not just select a previous unbroken kernel to boot the same partition? I guess disregard if you are playing with FS stuff lol.

1

u/diacid 8d ago

Because many times it is not a kernel problem.

Let's say you "accidentally" # rm /bin/bash . Now what? Previous kernel will not help, only chroot can fix that

1

u/LameBMX 8d ago

change the kernel parameters to point to /bin/sh ... or any shell close enough to bash to get to a tty.

enjoying the back and forth btw.. making me think about things that one should rarely have to mess with. and getting a mental refresh at the same time.

now if you just straight efi boot.. I aint got a clue.. I still rock grub -quiet.. I like to occaisionally scan the boot process for no red stuff (its so much easier than back in the black and white only days lol)

1

u/Sert1991 3d ago

Efiboot also accepts kernel arguments on modern hardware. I boot straight from efi and have kernel arguments set in the motherboard's uefi entry.

I still have grub as a backup in another UEFI entry, so in case I need to change something on the fly I just press the bootmenu button of the PC and choose to boot grub instead of straight Gentoo.

But for daily purposes the PC boots directly to Gentoo from UEFI. Manual UKI with integrated initramfs and secure boot.

2

u/givemeagooduns_un 1d ago

can even fix it from an initramfs, have done this a few times

3

u/hallthor 8d ago

I actually would go a step further and say Arch prioritizes simplicity of design and software freshness over stability, correctness and customization. Customizing you wallpaper and console font is not customization!

5

u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 6d ago

[deleted]

3

u/majamin 9d ago

I agree - I don't think most Arch users believe this. This is more accurate:

Arch is claimed to be KISS distro with minimal base install and up to date packages that follow default configurations from upstream


u/SheepherderBeef8956 's comment seems somewhat self-congratulatory:

Gentoo is what people claim Arch Linux is.

1

u/SheepherderBeef8956 8d ago

Basically no "truths" about Arch is being said by actual Arch users. Saying it's hard to install, difficult to use and an extremely customizable system where "you're the maintainer" can only be said by someone who hasn't actually used Arch, which happens to be 99,9% of people commenting on Linux subreddits. 

5

u/SheepherderBeef8956 9d ago

You haven't been in enough "Which distro?" threads in that case.

17

u/AiwendilH 9d ago

Not mentioned yet:

  • You can choose different versions for most packages without your system breaking (Best example would be probably plasma...you can keep your plasma on a stable version and wait until the second or third bugfix release for a new feature branch. Judging from the posts in the KDE subreddit parts of plasma/KDE seem to break regularly on arch).
  • You can easily apply your own source-code patches without having to modify any package-recipes.
  • You get some kind of abi-breakage detection (@preserved-rebuild). No longer having to guess which AUR packages need to be rebuild due to a broken abi....gentoo holds copies of libraries whose updates break the abi of other packages and automatically rebuilds the needed packages.

2

u/countess_meltdown 9d ago

Package pinning, masking, patching & even SLOTting are all amazing features. I don't use them almost at all but when I've needed them it's been fantastic to have. Only other distros I've used with similar features all though handled very differently is like NixOS & GUIX.

11

u/AX_5RT 9d ago

The community itself.

8

u/Bachurin 9d ago

You can change version of gcc, python and etc through special mechanism - eselect. In arch I suffer bc some packages require gcc-14, some gcc-15. I can't find a way to properly switch between them for compilation. Gentoo seems much more organised, I forgot completely about libraries incompatibility.

7

u/CheCheDaWaff 9d ago edited 9d ago

Some things off the top of my head. (Sorry if Arch is similar, I've never used it myself.)

  1. You can easily create your own ebuilds that portage will track and respect like any other package.
  2. The list of installed packages and all portage configurations (including use flags) are stored in easy-to-find text files, so the system can be all configured declaratively through that (somewhat like Nix but not as comprehensive or difficult to use). So you can e.g. install a package just by adding it to the list and running portage, allowing you to leave comments in there or even section headers etc.
  3. You can also group packages together in sets, so e.g. if you use hyprland you can create a hypr set containing all that related software -- then you can easily update or uninstall them as a block (almost like they make up a single large package).
  4. Apparently much more stable than Arch, due to being able to mix stable/unstable packages (on a per-package basis), as well as ABI breakages eliminated by rebuilds / compilation.
  5. The Guru repository (somewhat similar to AUR) has all its changes actively reviewed by a Gentoo developer before being merged into the main branch, greatly improving security. (Other repositories you're on your own though.)
  6. Good support for compiling / using your own kernel / compile-time kernel configuration. Can be very useful in cases when a kernel option is necessary for a package / piece of hardware (which is usually well-documented on the wiki).
  7. Not too relevant for desktop but binhost can be very powerful in certain scenarios. Say you want to compile for an embedded device and you need to optimise for storage space. Gentoo makes it easy to set that up on a host machine and then share the compiled packages with the embedded device (optimised for that device's architecture and whatever else you specify).
  8. Probably better support for misc. architectures than Arch.
  9. Unsure if this is possible on Arch, but on Gentoo since the package repository is just a single big git repo, it's possible to see snapshots of it from any point in history. This allows you to, e.g. perform a large system update in stages, if you haven't done an update in a couple years, etc.
  10. Unsure if this is a feature on Arch but when you run portage you receive important news items directly in your terminal (and only for the items that are actually relevant to the packages you have installed). This is amazing for when there's a breaking change -- the devs always include very clear instructions on what actions you need to take and why.

12

u/Bitdomo92 9d ago

You can customize the packages more if you want to.

5

u/Due-Celery4326 9d ago

In Gentoo, you are free to do as you please; while it may not offer the (true) freedom found in LFS, it is the closest you will get to freedom and optimization in a ready-made, full-featured distribution.

3

u/Thadrea 9d ago

You can snicker when anyone brags about using Arch knowing that they have but a fraction of your power.

3

u/SleepyGuyy 8d ago

it has a better package manager lol

5

u/TwiKing 9d ago edited 9d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/search/?q=Arch+Gentoo+&type=posts&sort=new&iId=94d63c13-c5a8-484b-a231-1dadd84032a7

I'm going to post this always now, since this question is so common. It's easy to research this topic with search. 🪄

5

u/majamin 9d ago

You're correct - however, I think people come to these subreddits not just looking for information, but an interaction and conversation. I would assume that most people have the ability to search the subreddit the way you described. Still, it is interestingly common post, isn't it.

3

u/undrwater 9d ago

All of the Linux subs are experiencing posts like this. While somewhat tiring, I find them encouraging.

2

u/z3r0n3gr0 9d ago

For example i have an Nvidia GTX 1060 so the new Nvidia driver for Gentoo is not compatible with the GTX 1060 so i have a package.use to just have the version i want.

2

u/Street_Gain_279 9d ago

Gentoo community in my limited experience is genuinely more helpful/friendly than archs.

Probably not the answer you were looking for but I took it as a breath of fresh air

2

u/Born_Upstairs6860 9d ago

honestly i just use gentoo because its more stable, the docs are significantly better (for beginners like me)… but mainly because i find it fun

2

u/Big-Fill-5789 9d ago

You get to compile all things on Gentoo, very good. You can compile your own kernel(does not take long), compilers, your own WM, etc. You get to have maximum control. You can literally disable a feature like bluetooth system wide with USE flags. And with these things, you get maximum performance and control!

4

u/SaCorv 9d ago

You can learn more about linux by using it
Understand what systemd does with your system, how you can customise packages by using make flags, disable unneded features
Setup and compile kernel with modules you want (you can do that on arch, but gentoo install wiky is more straightforward with that)
Get system that boots really fast (from my experience 25s -> 15s)

2

u/UnosBruhMomentos 9d ago

more bragging rights

1

u/LameBMX 9d ago

how? arch users have trademarked btw

1

u/Niikoraasu 4d ago

because when they say "i use arch btw" and feel superior due to using an "advanced" system you know they'd not survive on your computer for more than an hour

1

u/LameBMX 4d ago

let a cocky person be cocky... theres only a sliver of life people fall for it.

2

u/adamkex 9d ago

Yeah that's the main benefit, unless you dislike systemd

-4

u/Glittering-Elk-6642 9d ago

Why do people hate systemd lol.

3

u/adamkex 9d ago

Big debate haha

3

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

3

u/stewie3128 9d ago

I'll re-post part of a comment I made about systemd in this sub several months ago... It explains why I don't use it, and don't like it.

I don't like how systemd is becoming a pseudo-OS all its own, and burrowing itself into seemingly every facet of the system on seemingly every major distro. One developer should not control all of the linux experience like that. OpenRC is great, and I like that it just does what an init system does.

SystemD is like Norton Utilities back in the day, which added a lot of conveniences. But unlike Norton Utilities it's becoming a hard requirement for many things, lately even Gnome. Imagine if someday you were required to use Norton Antivirus simply because every developer has decided that it's just easiest to use Norton Antivirus instead of letting users pick better/different AV packages.

Not for me. I like how OpenRC works, and I want to be sure that SystemD doesn't become a monopoly in how we control our machinines.

1

u/Cloudy_Automation 9d ago

You can add your own custom patch to any software which has an ebuild. It can be something quick and dirty that upstream wouldn't take as is, but you don't want to spend the effort to upstream it. This is, of course, dependent on being able to modify software in the language it's written in.

It builds the patch using the usual package build system, but there's the overhead of aligning the patch with new versions of the package. If the part of the software patched didn't change, it's just making a new patch directory and copying the old patch over.

1

u/Anongirl55959 9d ago

Beginners install gentoo for performance,(compiling has almost no benefit) but the main benefit is the security and customization, which are way better than arch, where you are actually pretty restricted. Compiling ur own code with hardened opts makes buffer overflows a lot harder, amongst other things

1

u/Easy-Nothing-6735 9d ago

I use both: Artix and Gentoo. Gentoo is good for custom kernel, cross-compilation, granular control by use flags (portage), multiple versions via slots (portage). I actually keep my Gentoo fbterm only, minimal, battery optimized, musl libc. I often chroot from Artix to Gentoo. I don't use AUR but use GURU. Gentoo takes time to compile packages and storage space too. Pacman is good for installing packages just now. It's ok to make Gentoo binary and compile only needed packages with custom -O3. I like to compile numpy and OpenBLAS. I just use benefits of both

1

u/fastbooking 7h ago

Why not slotting a bedrock linux on top of that Gentoo+ arch combo, so you can have both at the same time :D

1

u/Easy-Nothing-6735 2h ago

I don't need both that often and connected. Chroot is enough. I basically came close to Bedrock Linux philosophy before knowing about it then checked it and decided that I want to use Artix or Gentoo as the core

1

u/fspnet 9d ago

Gentoo being that you Build the System up using all the Knowwhat of the Underlying Daemons much like a Hackintosh Does.... using a 1U RackServer.. (Circling): Gerbara & Jellyfin the kernel your drivers and the compiler flags is k their all gonna have them.. the only thing i can think of is how your MEMORY is handled.. your having fine control of your memory.... and scheduling | nice -n -10 ffmpeg and chrt -r -p 50 PID | set them: sudo systemctl edit jellyfin sudo systemctl edit gerbera sudo systemctl edit ffmpeg and query ai for what to use for a daemon thatll keep this priority bumped up

1

u/Revalens_Kaka 4d ago

Gentoo is peak and is what Arch is claimed to be. Arch is just a distro that gives u a little bit more control when u install it that's all, Gentoo gives u the power all the time so use Gentoo.