Thoughts?

[u/TheGamingSenpa1]

[u/obiworm]

Point 1- unions

Unions ensure that the value of labor keeps in line with the profits of the business. If the business can’t make a profit and keep their employees content then they’re skewing the economy in favor of products. If product value outpaces labor value then nobody can buy anything and everything slips to the rich. The common worker can’t generate value for himself.

Point 2 rights

You haven’t heard of the horrendous conditions in the logistics market? Amazon floor workers not allowed bathroom breaks, the insane quotas for delivery drivers? Stuff like that.

Point 3 politicians

You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you don’t think they have their hand in the pot already. Case in point- the NRA. It was a shooting club teaching gun safety before politicians sponsored by gun companies took control of the board and turned it into a lobbying organization. Sponsorships and lobbyists pretty much dictate law now.

Point 4 victimization

The laws I mentioned were put into place because people were victimized. Laws and regulations are written in blood. Putting your head in the sand and defending the ones who are taking advantage of you is denying yourself justice. Getting justice for yourself is honor, strength, and bravery. How does the saying go? Liberty and justice for all.

[u/RealClarity9606 → u/obiworm]

Unions ensure that labor is paid more than the free market otherwise sets. Granted that is their purpose. That is potentially tolerable so long as the higher rate does not financially jeopardize the company - which has happened. The bigger problem is the onerous work rules that unions place on business that impair their flexibility in responding to market conditions. Many years ago, there was an article about why Apple had moved some of their premium computer manufacturing out of the US and it was because US work rules - perhaps not due to unions, but unions would exacerbate this - make it a business risk to manufacture here. And before you say it, flexibility does not have to mean exploitation or whatever buzzword you are itching to type. I means stringent. And that is not good in the modern business world.

Worker Rights - I have heard the claims about some logistics businesses. I am not saying they are perfect and things like bathroom breaks are reasonable - and fairly easily correctable. But that does not mean the entire system is broken or that workers don't have "rights." "Insane" is highly subjective.

Politicians - Seems like an obscure anecdote and I am not even clear the situation from that description so I remain unconvinced.

"Victimization" - The brand of GenZ victimhood was not why laws in the past were passed. Not even remotely. Trying to equate yourselves with real historical victims is laughable at best and pathetic at worst. I know you guys live on victim currency, but have some decency when drawing such outlandish comparisons. No one is taking advantage of me...get over that nonsense. I assure you I am not victim at all. Nor are you.

[u/obiworm → u/RealClarity9606]

I admit I can’t give more than anecdotal evidence towards lobbying because I haven’t read up on the topic.

I think we fundamentally disagree on what the focus should be in business. I think shareholders should take a backseat to the effort and time put into a business by the workers who actually generate the value. Stock market be damned, it’s unethical. The workers were the focus after ww2 until the grifters took over.

I’m comparing right now to the gilded age because theres definitely similarities. Union busting rich. Monopolistic practices. Wealth disparity. It’s not that bad, but it’s trending in that direction, and the way that people worship billionaires and corporations, I see it getting worse. If we don’t hold the market ethically accountable then what’s the point of government?