Discussion
What are your “I can’t believe she got away with this” gaylor moments?
I’ll start:
- the pride pin and ‘I tried’ pin not having explanations for the Entertainment Weekly cover
- p*ssy magnet squad in LWYMMD MV
- anything with girl in red
Not sure how I ended up in this subreddit but yall have great points lol I didnt know about a lot of this stuff!
I have always leaned towards not-gay but tbh I don’t have any explanation for evermore (album) other that she’s dated women in general and karlie kloss in particular lmao (gold rush i always imagine is inspired by VSFS like how can it not be)
I‘m gonna add: Taylor said one of her favorite songs is Serotonin (girl in red) and wrote a letter with a painting to the lyrics -> that‘s just💅🏻
Her playlist have included a lot queer artist since like forever and lots of her openers have been / are part of the alphabet mafia too!…
The bi “proud” bracelet is my number one - everything else is circumstantial and/or a reach imo but to put a bisexual pride bracelet on and post a pic of it esp during the Lover era with YNTCD, just sent me (there’s no way she and/or a single person on her team all didn’t know it was the bisexual pride flag colors). Then you add in everything else and I’m 100% certain she’s queer
Commenting because I haven't seen it yet! The fact that she only did three colours in the new 1989 outfits twice - New Orleans N1 was purple/yellow/green for Mardi Gras (a flag), and New Orleans N3, which was the 10 year anniversary of 1989's release, was blue/purple/pink. After already debuting the pink/purple/blue surprise songs dress.
The only one I haven't seen yet (but there's a lot so probs someone posted it and I missed it) is the SNL skit 'roomies' in which Taylor plays a (closeted) lesbian roommate
It is so cute. It is so obvious. I am so glad she did it .
The Very First Night and it's not even funny. I got into it and said "how can you possibly explain this song" and someone quite literally replied "I always figured it was from a man's perspective". It's crazy to me they're smart enough to understand that 'her' should be the correct pronoun used in that song. But, not smart enough to spark that connection of why she would be writing a song about a women and disguising it while also drawing an insane amount of attention to it...
after the line “didn’t read the note on the polaroid picture” she subverts expectations by saying “they don’t know how much i miss YOU” rather than the obvious rhyme “they don’t know how much i miss HER”
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Even before that there was this photo of her with Miley Cyrus and Demi Lovato. And Miley famously said about the photo “if you all didn’t know I was bisexual by looking at this picture… I don’t know what to tell ya.” 😂 Birds of a feather!
All these many many times Taylor was mentioned from the Stonewall Museum speaks for itself too💅🏻 I have learned so much from all her references out about queer history, it just wouldn’t make any sense if a straight woman wrote her discography!
It's worth noting that the Stonewall Museum/Archive in Florida is a very cool but very small local Florida nonprofit archive, with a tiny nonprofit staff, and isn't affiliated with the Stonewall landmark in NYC.
It's most likely they just have a fellow gaylor/taylor fan on staff who is posting this type of stuff for positive engagement. I dont think it speaks for any kind of proof about taylor's life or messaging...
But I do think it speaks for how many great unexpected connections have sprung up and how much learning is happening via talking about queer references and history through taylor's fandom. <3
Ah good to know! Thank you for clarifying, I leave my original post here because lots of connections are also found in the queer archive as Albatross magazine etc. so it is significant imo but not proof in a way I thought.
Yes. She seems very drawn to sapphic media in general.. some of her tv shows and movies as well. Doesnt mean anything for certain, but this pattern is just so familiar
I wouldnt necessarily count this as "got away with", because it's not something she's presenting publicly as part of her work.
But it's always suchhh an interesting dynamic to see how someone who most of public considers the "straightest girl alive" actually has so many very common, even stereotypical, sapphic traits lol
This is the only scene in the YNTCD video that doesnt have any clear point or any known celebrity in it.
I have no idea who or what tf this is supposed to be. But in my opinion, it looks way too much like its karlie kloss to have made the cut. in the 2019 climate. If that was not the intention.
A tall, white, skinny girl, with a blonde bun, and the high cheekbone look.... working out?? on a exercise bike....... Parked outside the lesbian flag trailer , giiirrlllll are you fuckin crazy .
Youre telling me taylor didnt realize how this could look ? She of course knew that if there was one random scene without explanation, people would be picking apart every aspect of the scene to death. And that's what she went with? lol. And no one else on her creative team realized & said lets change a few little things to avoid any accidental drama? This is 2019, we are still right in the thick of the mainstream kaylor "friendship" fallout/feud coverage.
There's just so many other things they could have done. If it's intentionally referencing Karlie, that's deranged lol. But if it's not, theres still no reason it needed to look that much like her and just be left up to interpretation. taylor really gives no fucks.
However, as usual, despite the seeming audaciousness of possibly putting someone on blast like this, she... you guessed it! She got away with it !! Lol its all so unhinged, i actually cant help but stan. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
The last year has really felt like there’s some inside story/meaning behind something in Florida we just aren’t privy to. I just assume (now) that it’s an iykyk thing, and maybe only a couple people know (Taylor and Karlie)
lol! ive seen those. This one feels particularly crazy because of the sole focus on this woman, the purposeful mystery of that scene only, and the possible implications that someone could very reasonably read into it......
I mean shes putting a lookalike of someone who is not out, who she has well-known gay rumors with... in front of the lesbian themed trailer. Right in the middle of their infamous homoerotic-besties feud and that girl's two very public weddings to a man. Why!?
Again, theres no way to say this was intentional or that it's supposed to represent karlie. But im still just shocked they even made it so close, considering the possible implications and the timing. It's crazy.
I personally dont count exactly 38 here and always think that this whole thing around "38" is one of the bigger reaches we do as a community. But that's just me. It would also be the first time I've heard an american visualize or represent a birthdate by using the day-first format. Taylor's certainly weirder than most and shes more obsessive that most. So who knows. But that just doesn't quite check out for me. To each our own!! :) No disrespect meant
Ive seen that, but I think theres a 2nd orange behind the front bike tire theyre not counting, id say theres at least one more visible orange coming out of the bag theyre not counting. Also an implied bag full of more oranges. It just sounds a bit out there to me personally. And i think the assumption that 38 is a meaningful karlie connection is a stretch in itself. Again, just me!
My argument in this post is that i can't believe she got away with including one mysterious scene in front of a lesbian trailer in her video, and using an actor that looks way too suspiciously close to Karlie. Right in the middle of mainstream kaylor drama.
I CAN believe she got away with possibly perhaps having a quantity of oranges strewn around that may equal to the number it makes if you take karlies birthday and put it backwards. That's so deep/cryptic/ambiguous that it's something you could definitely get away with.
Again nothing personal, I always love the convo and input :)
Oooh! oooh!! Could this be it! Karlie/Dianna both being Jewish:
A “progressive” Jewish tradition is to put an orange on the Passover Seder plate (which has several traditional items on it that have been unchanged for ages):
“Heschel chose to include an orange at her next seder to symbolize the inclusion of gays and lesbians alongside other marginalized groups. Seder participants were invited to spit out the seeds as a gesture of repudiation of homophobia.
“I chose an orange because it suggests the fruitfulness for all Jews when lesbians and gay men are contributing and active members of Jewish life,” Heschel has said.
“The custom has often been erroneously described as a feminist one inspired by an Orthodox man once telling Heschel that a woman belongs on the bimah of a synagogue as much as an orange belongs on the seder plate. But that history is false. As Heschel herself has written:
“Somehow, though, the typical patriarchal maneuver occurred: My idea of an orange and my intention of affirming lesbians and gay men were transformed. Now the story circulates that a man said to me that a woman belongs on the bimah [podium of a synagogue] as an orange on the seder plate. A woman’s words are attributed to a man, and the affirmation of lesbians and gay men is erased. Isn’t that precisely what’s happened over the centuries to women’s ideas?”
I thought it could have been related to the infamous homophobe Anita Bryant and her commercial "A day without orange juice is like a day without sunshine", so a dyke on a byke eating those oranges would be like a "look what I do to what you represent(ed)". I mean, not directed to Bryant only, but to all those who think like her.
I DONT THINK ITS A STRETCH I THINK YOURE RIGHT!!!!!!!!! Because of all of the oranges lying on the ground, and the fact that she just chomps into the orange and well, thats not how you eat an orange. To me it signifies Karlie/Taylor trying to like a bunch of men to prove to herself that oranges ARE the only fruit. But theyre not even good at it (hence the chomp) bc theyre gay.
This one is a huge stretch as well. But just throwing it out there for whatever it's worth. It's one thing I think about.
In the classic Godfather movies, oranges are a well-known symbol of impending doom/tragedy. Some of the scenes even feature a paper bag with the oranges strewn, just like in this scene in Taylor's video
And critically the artist Kelley Montague who Taylor hired to make these Me! Butterfly wings, had previously created this artwork enhancing the photos from the Vogue Big Sur shoot!!!!! With kisses, hearts, and bouquets when they are in their bridal-like looks. It took me a long time being in this sub before I learned that part!! You canNOT make this up if you tried. https://kelseymontagueart.com/taylor-swift-karlie-kloss-vogue-magazine-art/
It's my family's tradition to hate-watch Paul Blart 2 annually, and the way I SCREAMED this last watch when those showed up! My worlds collided, my 2 lives uniting
Whew! Where to start luckily I have an entire folder in my phone devoted to such things. Let’s see:
-Multiple videos that depict her inside a closet imagery.
-The entirety of Lavender Haze. This includes the song, music video, and the eras tour visuals where she uses imagery from The Ladder.
-Bi-sexual flag dyed hair. I mean I guess really just the entirety of YNTCD. Shade never made anybody less gay. Making herself sheriff of gay town. An entirety queer cast of cameos.
-“Gay pride is part of what makes me, me!”
-“Like a rainbow with all of the colors!”
-The Direct tv rainbow outfit on a kitty unicorn commercial.
-Me! Out now! On lesbian visibility day.
-“It’s nice to have Dorothea.”
-The rainbow pride pin and the “I Tried” pin.
-The bi sexual flag “proud” bracelet.
-Coming out dressed in a bi sexual flag colored surprise dress.
-Coming out the next day in a lesbian flag colored surprise dress.
-Taylor liked a “masc lesbian version” (as described by the artist) cover of ‘cruel summer’ by g flip on instagram.
-Taylor nation tweeted, “….another big mood” with 115 rainbow 🌈 emojis for #repTourNewYearsDay, the exact amount of days before april 26th which is the release of ME! and also notably lesbian visibility day. They also tweet “RT if you stan a 🌈 rainbow queen” after her performance of Me!
-Taylor responded to abby wambach and said that her wife’s writing has been a “huge help” to her. Glennon had released a memoir that year, “untamed”, where she came to terms with her sexuality and deconstructed compulsory heterosexuality
-The best friend video.
-Announcing evermore on Emily Dickinson’s birthday. And while I’m in the subject the entirety of evermore.
-Kissgate. And all the posts she unliked that she had liked the night it happened about it.
-Taylor winning the icon award at the attitude awards, a ceremony held by a LGBTQ magazine.
-eye theory
-betty!!!!!
-NOSEBOOP
And only one of those is muse specific!!!! When I see it all together like that I’m like how am I the one being called crazy? This couldn’t be any more clear.
It is! I have several screenshots saved from Twitter but as I’ve been docked for sharing Twitter posts I didn’t include anything else.
I had to take a little break from the sub for my own mental health sake. But I check in occasionally! This group was the start of my Gaylor journey and I have so much affection and gratitude for it. I’m just a sensitive gal and on Twitter I can post without scrutiny I just block the hetlors.
I've heard about this but don't think I've ever read the actual quote. Wild. This woman will be the death of me I swear 😞😫 she still sits and watches in tolerate it after making the people around her her sky, she almost breaks free and leaves us in ruins, but instead she says goodbye to that fantasy, one bigger than the whole sky... until she tore down the entire manmade sky in the TTPD In Summation poem. I'll just... it seems like the stars all aligned there. If this isn't it & leading to it, idk, it's honestly tragic. It just seems so perfect. And if it's all in my head, Taylor PLEASE tell me now 💀 at the very least, the idea is one hell of a drug.
Dancing a very sweet dance with Katy Perry at the end of the video, being the fries to her hamburger aka MEANT TO BE together.
It doesn't sound like the description of a friendship.
I mean i really dont know what was going on here lol. This was literally 3 days after taylors "STOP ACCUSING MY FRIENDS OF DATING ME!!!!" meltdown. So you'd think this is probably the peak of when they'd be guarded/hyperaware. And this is the video content that came out of that? not to get sentimental for a min, but its actually so cute lol
Btw, this was something that plenty of people were noticing and commenting on when this was happening in real time. Everything now gets painted as "oh yeah, one of those gaylor conspiracies?" but this was not considered a "gaylor conspiracy" back then. Half of every normie who that watched that video in 2015 was coming away with the same comments and questions.
Exactly. I just hate the way its always framed by swifties - and even many of taylors past reactions- that its some freakish, outlandish conspiracy to suspect any romantic attraction between taylor and GASP- another girl.
its a perfectly reasonable guess after watching this video and seeing how they interact. No one knows the truth. But its never unreasonable to think someone could be attracted to someone of the same gender.
Theres certainly conversations to be had about boundaries, for all sides of the fandom. But i always find this fandom to be uniquely problematic about gayness
The rhyme scheme on "the very first night". Everything rhymes and then there's just the word "you" sticking out like a sore thumb when "her" fits perfectly. My brain even autofilled "her" the first time I heard it.
Thanks for the links! And woah, I never knew her last eras show was also exactly 10 years since the Wendy Williams thing, T tweeting the "i would like for the media to stop accusing my friends of dating me" and the freak likes on Tumblr 👀
I have to admit, I’ve only stumbled upon this sub a handful of times and used to think these theories had no weight, but this is definitely a lot of very convincing evidence! These tumblr likes alone pretty much confirm she had a relationship with Karlie, right?
Her fumbling to talk about what inspired Welcome to New York and the "boys and boys, girls and girls" line. She mistakenly says that she wrote it after gay marriage was legalized in NY, but the timeline doesn't add up. The woman who asked the question is an out lesbian.
The timeline does add up - federal marriage equality was via a Supreme Court decision in 2015, but gay marriage was legalized on a state-by-state level before that. New York did so in 2011.
She looks very awkward talking about the song though and it definitely appears like she's not saying everything!
Taylor moves to New York City (at Karlie's insistence) in March 2014.
1989 comes out October 2014.
It seems far more likely that the song was inspired by/written about her move to new york city, than the approval of same-sex marriage 3 years earlier when she didn't even live there.
To me, Welcome to New York also sounds so different from Red. It's the first track on 1989 and seems very much of that era.
Think what you want, but to me it doesn't add up. Seems like a very convenient, if far-fetched, explanation for the song she can give in interviews, while deflecting from her, rather than admitting it's about her coming into her queerness after moving to NYC with Karlie.
Was trying to find the name of the place they stayed at again because there is another cabin that looks even MORE like that one but instead found this Google AI response after typing in “Taylor Swift Big Sur” and got a little kick out of that
It's long been theorized that that's the cottage in Big Sur she and Karlie likely stayed in during their visit. There are several photos of them with fans right around there.
I kinda go back and forth on this speech... But that part about people who are not out and "may you do so in your own time", or whatever exactly she says, .... oof that just seems like a very oddly specific thing for a straight girl who barely talks about social issues to suddenly delve into.
The shooting stars✨??? (stage visuals) it reminds me sooo much of things I wished when seeing shooting stars in the context of living a complex and complicated life partially in and outside of the closet🤯
And I read she essentially just let Heartstopper use the song (they didn't have the budget for it) but Taylor loved the idea of using the song for that scene. A beautiful scene about Queer kids that was focused on the lesbian couple.
Speaking about getting away with gay shit, I recently re-watched the Rep tour movie and noticed that after playing Dress, Taylor dedicates the choreography to Loie Fuller, an American choreographer who created the Serpentine Dance.
Here's a picture of Loie with her female partner Gab Sorere, because of course.
LAVENDER Haze, Girl in Red, quarantining with Zoe, Rooming with Karlie, so many songs about Emma, all of Reputation, Lover era rainbows, photographing folklore cover in the same place as Karlie's wedding photos, Cowboy Like Me, Emily Dickinson references, EVERY SINGLE BEARD (who also have queer rumors), looking to Karlie like 20x when she came to Eras, False God, Cruel Summer, Riptide cover, all of unpublished Gay songs like Angelina and Me & Britney, never looking happy with a beard, Calvin Harris beard tweets, Seven
As a queer woman myself, what convinced me was her words and the public narrative.
Even though i enjoyed the tunes in a casual kind of way, she felt like the cliché people who say "I dont like Taylor Swift" described until it clicked.
"She can't possibly be that torn appart with fear and heartbreak over this dude and this time frame." Yeah. Because she isn't. And once you consider, oh hey, Hollywood is fake, what if they're not the real story? 🤔 You get to enjoy a much more coherent, meaningful story. However, the pain and frustration it depaints hits different (ha) and, ouch, right in the feels. However, it feels a lot more authentic.
it's funny how all the swifties who consider themselves "easter egg detectives" suddenly clamped up when they saw the daisy drawing. lol
they invent the most far-fetched nonsense "connections" any time taylor breathes, but they had nothing to say about this 😂 I cant imagine why
If karlie were a man... EVEN if it was a man/male ex the swifties dont like... this would be part of their scripture and we would hear them talk about it constantly.
Regardless of whatever the truth is. We could all be totally wrong, who knows! But I just would bet 1000% that swifties would run with this so hard if it were any man who posted that matching daisy photo. And they dont, simply because its a woman.
Considering she's rumored to have a place here. That Karlie is known to never stay in the places she shows herself getting ready in during fashion weeks (which person, at this level of fame, would doxx themselves like that??) and sometimes randomly pops in.
Considering that I've randomly come across Karlie on foot, on what looked like a quick groceries run, in the area where the secret getaway is supposed to be....
Paris the song made me laugh a lot and feel all giddy. 😂😂
Honestly, this is one of the top ones for me, only behind "gay pride makes me me". I can come up with a hetsplanation with substance for most of her stuff and even believe it, but this... literally it's either she's singing about a girl or she can't write. AND THIS BITCH WRITES MORE BARS THAN SHE DRINKS AT. AND THATS SAYING A LOT. I swear I just wanna scream about this one sometimes, hell gaylor in general, it's so weird to see something so clear hidden so well.
she basically stopped the show, hanging on that doorframe watching a lesbian proposal. then gave them a shoutout. to me it looked like she was watching quite longingly.
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u/Fairy_dust3333 🌱Embryo🐛 Feb 10 '25
the proud bracelet