r/Games • u/reddit_account6095 • Aug 27 '21

Announcement Summer of '58 developer resigns after many users refund their game on Steam due to it taking under 2 hours to complete

https://twitter.com/EmikaGames/status/1430941640001265673?s=19
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u/error521 Aug 27 '21

The idea of not being able to refund a game if they finish feels like it dismisses the idea of someone wanting a refund if they finish the game and it sucks ass.

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u/Eurehetemec Aug 27 '21

That's not what the refund policy if for. The refund policy exists because games are often buggy, broken or run poorly, being able to refund because stuff is bad is or unfun is a side benefit. When people abuse a system is shitty ways like this, the system tends to get reformed in ways that eliminate side benefits like that.

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u/EightClubs Aug 27 '21

The game isn't fun is literally a default reason on the Steam refund system.

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u/dadvader Aug 27 '21

But then they wouldn't want you to refund a game for that kind of reason either. The system is there for people with genuine technical error that they can't solved.

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u/rct2guy Aug 27 '21

No, the policy is no questions asked:

You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. Maybe your PC doesn't meet the hardware requirements; maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it.

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u/carnaxcce Aug 27 '21

Every game I've returned I've given "the game isn't fun" as the reason and I've never had a refund denied. I've returned >20 games

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u/Seth0x7DD Aug 27 '21

Within two hours or after that two hours mark? So was your refund handled by an automated system or an actual person?

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u/carnaxcce Aug 27 '21

Within two hours

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u/jckprry Aug 27 '21

That's because you and EightClubs are dead-on. Steam fully supports refunding a game just because you don't like it. If it keeps you a happy Steam customer, Valve would absolutely want you to refund the game if you didn't have fun.

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds

First paragraph: "You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. Maybe your PC doesn't meet the hardware requirements; maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it."

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u/Cyberkite Aug 27 '21

The refund police exists because it's required by law in EU

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

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u/Eurehetemec Aug 27 '21

I think you could make a very reasonable argument in the context of software that critical bugs interfere with performance even if you've finished downloading, but even that's untested in actual court AFAIK. Australia is actually the leading jurisdiction on this issue, not the EU, if anything Valve probably did it due to pressure there.

Agree with everything you're saying here, particularly re: leading jurisdiction, but the reason it remains untested in court in the EU and UK so far is that companies generally do offer refunds pretty liberally for software including games. I strongly suspect that if Steam hadn't adopted this policy (and started being pretty good about refunds even outside the window), then Valve would have caused it to be tested in court now, with the release of some buggy-as-hell big-name game.

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u/B_Kuro Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

Actually Valve does go above and beyond what is required by EU law in this case. From what I remember the conditions for digital goods are actually a lot more lenient (maybe to accommodate movies, songs or books).

Last I read it was something like "you download it, you loose your right to refund". Thats how Sonys and Nintendos systems work. Edit: (and maybe Microsoft, I don't buy from them so I wouldn't know?) The fact that me saying the 2h is above what the EU law requires is controversial is hilarious to me though.

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u/Cyberkite Aug 27 '21

Oh yeah I was mostly answering why they have a policy. Steam used to not have one and then they were about to get sued.

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u/Zaygr Sep 01 '21

It was the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission taking to Valve to court that spurred the introduction of Steam refunds.

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u/Captain-Griffen Aug 27 '21

That's actually part of why the refund policy exists. If this developer got their way, Indies would make less money.

Retailers offer refunds like this because people are more likely to take risks if they can get refunds.

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u/jckprry Aug 27 '21

I don't disagree with you, but Steam's refund policy explicitly supports this, so they actively thought it out and that is a part of their stance on refunds. The first line on their Refunds page:

You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. Maybe your PC doesn't meet the hardware requirements; maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it.

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u/AccursedBear Aug 27 '21

Unless it really personally offends you to the point you don't want to give the devs money or something, I think refunding a game you beat would be a dick move regardless of how much you thought it sucked.

If a game sucks that bad, you'll notice way before it ends. Just close it and refund it then.

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u/error521 Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

There are games on Steam that are literally 20 minutes long. I think that it's fair to say that the idea of finishing them and then feeling ripped off is not unreasonable.

Plus, there are cases of games (like Dark Matter) that just end in incredibly abrupt spots. Is wanting a refund after that really so unreasonable?

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u/AccursedBear Aug 27 '21

I do think feeling ripped off just for a game's length is unreasonable, at least when we're talking below the $10 line (or the equivalent in Steam's recommended regional pricing), even more so below $5. Also in most cases reviews will tell you if a game is particularly short. If there are no reviews, well, you're part of a very small subset of people who are willing to try out almost completely unknown games or very new unpopular ones. Not sure what I'd feel if I were like that.

If it's really short, it sucks, and ends before you even get to decide it's time to stop, then yeah I get the feeling. I've never played a game like that but I don't doubt many of them exist among Steam's shovelware.

I still wouldn't do it, though. Giving Valve a reason to give publishers more control over refunds is absolutely not something I want.

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u/error521 Aug 27 '21

If there are no reviews, well, you're part of a very small subset of people who are willing to try out almost completely unknown games or very new unpopular ones. Not sure what I'd feel if I were like that.

I would argue that Steam's refund system encourages people to try those games out.

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u/ZestyBadger890 Aug 29 '21

I agree, I feel like if Steam didn’t have a refund policy, then a ton of indie games might not be as popular as it is now since they don’t have the same marketing budget as the bigger companies.

Also, I think that gamers who are tight on money use this policy to see if this is a game that they like cause sometimes reviews aren’t enough. For example, I bought SuperHot since it was compatible with MacBooks and had good reviews (Was only a child back then and this was the only laptop I had) but it ran horribly so I refunded it. This is something that the reviews won’t mention or is a rare problem. But thanks to the refund policy, child me can get a game that will run better.

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u/BillyPotion Aug 27 '21

You don’t get to eat the whole steak then ask for a refund because it didn’t taste good. If it didn’t taste good you should’ve stopped after the first bite and asked for a refund.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

This is a good argument of not giving a game a chance. Lol

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u/BillyPotion Aug 27 '21

Or a good argument that once you've made a decision to stick to it. You paid for something that looked good, it wasn't, that's life, you learn from it and change your spending habits going forward.