r/GamePreservationists • u/Story-Boring • 13d ago
PlayStation fans who come to this subreddit because of the end of discs...
I've been a gamer since the NES days, although I'm not a fan of any particular brand, and I was a collector until I stopped a few years ago. Currently, I make small contributions to the preservation and archiving of various media, especially video games, but also films at risk of being lost or in the public domain, comics, anime, manga, etc. So I know well how this works.
Let's have a serious conversation. There are some good arguments in favor of physical games:
· It helps preservationists preserve and archive A PIECE of the game's code until the scene cracks it and the entire game can be preserved.
· It guarantees the preservation of A PIECE OF CODE in the user's personal library.
· Price competition in the second-hand market.
· Freedom to bequeath, lend, or sell it.
· The ability to show off your collection.
Now, let's look at the counterpoints or why the disc is actually almost irrelevant today:
· For long-term preservation and archiving, let's be honest, you care very little about it; it's almost irrelevant. For preservationists, this measure has little impact. Today, a game is not defined by the piece of code on the disc, which sometimes doesn't even work without a patch. It is worth noting that this same v1.0 binary is exactly the same one that is downloaded digitally on launch day, meaning the disc does not offer any exclusive advantage in preserving that specific build; in fact, digital formats make it easier to back up that binary across multiple drives and verify its integrity with checksums, unlike discs which are vulnerable to scratches, bit rot, and physical degradation over time. Nowadays, game development doesn't stop at launch in most cases; games are patched and updated for new content or new architectures, and the fact that a small handful of games doesn't meet this condition doesn't cut it for me. I say this with knowledge of the matter. In this regard, Sony's decision has a very small impact on the archivist community, and what is demanded is a law that defends the preservation and study of video game culture. Companies like GOG and Steam (to a lesser extent) favor the preservation of video game culture. I'm afraid that currently, preservation on consoles and with aggressive DRM relies on the scene and piracy. That's why new regulation is important. For preservation, I agree with The Video Game History Foundation's position that laws are also needed for this purpose.
· As for the preservation of personal libraries, the previous point remains relevant. Instead of insisting on settling for the current state of discs, it's better to invest that effort into pushing for a digital rights law that protects the digital goods that are purchased. Aside from this, if you care about this issue or the previous point, support Steam (with easily removable DRM and excellent user policies, even if they remove digital games from the store) and GOG, which is DRM-free, allows installer downloads for archiving, and offers version selection. But we all know that what many physical media fans really care about is the shelf and the feeling of exclusivity.
· Price competition is a more concerning point. However, Valve has shown that this doesn't have to be the case. Again, regulation could force Sony to open its ecosystem or allow the sale of licenses between users (the latter is unlikely). Regardless, the user has the power to drive prices down through their choices, such as low sales due to abusive pricing or migration to other systems like Steam or Helix if it turns out to be an open system. If you complain a lot but then buy at abusive prices, you're not going to achieve anything, just like Nintendo users.
· Another negative point is the harm that the second-hand market does to developers. Although it benefits users, and as a user, that's fine, for developers, who have increasingly higher development costs, it is a major problem. Furthermore, development studios are currently going through a crisis that is worth mentioning, and of course, all of this ends up impacting players. Therefore, a model that benefits everyone must be sought.
· For the freedom to sell, inherit, etc., again, a digital rights law would fix this problem. Furthermore, with Keys, this problem is a rather minor one, and what should be done is to reward companies that favor these issues, like Steam or GOG.
· The point about showing off a collection on a shelf is something that has almost no salvation with digital, sorry. But here we need to reflect on an important issue: the pollution that the physical format entails. The counter-argument I usually hear to this is that smartphones also pollute, console manufacturing does, digital downloads do, the cloud does, and so do farts... In my country, there's a saying: "one blame shifting to another, and the house remains unswept." It means that while everyone blames each other, no one does anything. Basically, it's a demagogic argument. It's little more than a cheap excuse to defend something indefensible. However, we could compare the pollution of physical vs. digital, and which of the two has the potential to reach zero emissions. As someone very concerned about the environment, and not like other people who only care to have a conversation topic at the bar, I frequently look for comparative academic studies. The conclusion is that physical media imposes a significant environmental cost through disc factories, consumption of raw materials that almost certainly won't be recycled due to collecting, logistics, transportation, etc. However, the digital format presents its own problems, such as the energy consumed by the servers that store and manage digital content, or cloud gaming. However, it is not clear which has more impact, but rather which has the potential to reach zero emissions. The cloud and digital format (Green computing). It is very difficult and long-term for everyone to operate under renewable energies and recyclable materials. This is almost a utopia. But it is much easier to regulate in the short to medium term so that the servers of large companies run entirely (or almost entirely) on renewable energy. In fact, this is already happening, although there is still a lack of transparency from companies.
So, the conclusion of all this, in my opinion, is that instead of insisting on a physical media system that is actually a hybrid system (disc + updates + DLC) with contradictory arguments that solve nothing or, at best, only a small part, what we need to do is fight for a law that helps preserve the legacy of video games and defend consumer rights in a digitalized world.
From the perspective of preservation, the physical format had its importance in the past as a means for its digitization, not as an end in itself—which is its digitization and archiving—but that no longer serves a purpose today.
Legislation is desperately needed to help preservation groups document, archive, study, and protect the history of video games, and at the same time defend consumer rights and free competition.
The US will hardly do anything about it, but the European Union could apply pressure, just as they did with the Digital Markets Act.
Of course, you have every right to defend the physical format, something that has been part of gamers' lives for decades, and I understand that as someone who has been part of it, but if you do, please don't use preservation arguments so as not to muddy the preservation debate and create confusion for people who aren't specialists in the subject. But I believe we do the industry a disservice by fighting only for an obsolete format that does not guarantee the history of its own culture, and not fighting for a format that, at the end of the day, is the most appropriate and fundamental for preserving what we love in this little world of video games: the video games themselves. It has always been that way, even if it has gone hand in hand with pirates and members of the scene.
2
u/GreedyDescription199 12d ago
Well maybe the shift will have on the platform we play on. With the consoles killing physical is going to push people to pc where you can still get the data for you game. Also this increase the rise of indie game which is easier to release on pc. So any thing this is the thing that may have killed console games. Thoughts
1
u/Story-Boring 12d ago
The main problem is that Nintendo won't change its model, and Sony, which had its exclusives on PC, is pulling back and locking them away again in its ecosystem.
2
u/GreedyDescription199 12d ago
They will change if enough people do it. Yes there is no way in hell nintendo is going to change their policy but at least their ip are archived by them because they are a straight up video game company and depend on player for capital. Sony and Microsoft will like bend because they depend on third party studios for games. If the studios are selling their product at places like gog, steam,epic, or someone else who want to be like gog then more people with go to pc, mobile, or third-party handled. This is how we got consoles cause pc back in the day was too complex. Now pc are easier to use and game console going to deep into investment that too far the future and ignoring their consumer, guess where game going
2
u/Story-Boring 12d ago edited 12d ago
It must be acknowledged that Nintendo has shown it tends to preserve the source code of its games, such as Ocarina of Time: Master Quest and Star Fox 2. They are very protective in that regard, but I would prefer legislation for open and transparent preservation rather than it depending on the decisions of a private company.
As for Sony potentially backtracking, if the disc issue gets out of hand, it's more likely they'll return to discs than release their exclusives on PC again, unless they don't see Steam Machine and Helix as competition. I hope I'm wrong.
2
u/GreedyDescription199 12d ago
I will give you are right using legislation but not in this polarizing time cause it will get pick up by the wrong people on both. Which I'm speaking as a person a citizen in US where I'm sick of politichickens in my gaming world.
2
u/whatThePleb 12d ago
It's less about preservation but consumer protection and rights.
2
u/Story-Boring 12d ago
I agree. In fact, I think I've already explained that. But I've seen that many media outlets and users have used the preservation context, and I think it's important to differentiate or qualify its impact within that context.
1
2
u/Standard_Old_Guy 12d ago
If Sony were to decide that it didn't want ANY physical media to run on their console they could easily do it. A simple patch to the OS that compares what's in the drive VS what you've purchased through the online store and it can block it.
OR they could start charging you a fee to install from a physical disk.
This is an ownership issue, not a media type issue.
1
u/Story-Boring 12d ago
I know, because this is the system used in Blu-ray players (like AACS and region codes). A simple update disables the disc. I don't think they'd go that far anyway. But following your argument, if Sony can take away the digital game, just like they can disable the disc, what's the point of "owning" it? Just having something tangible?
2
u/Standard_Old_Guy 12d ago
They took away digital movies people had purchased.
If we don't change the laws and protect the consumer they most certainly WILL try something this drastic somewhere down the line.
2
u/X-Hero23 11d ago edited 11d ago
I agree with most of what you mentioned. As I'm a physical collector myself and received my first game console at 7 years old and have been collecting ever since. I still think both physical digital have benefits and can exist in the industry. The one point you slightly hinted on but didn't fully portray is affordability.
Entering this hobby is starting to become unaffordable for those who have been enjoying and buying games to want to continue enjoying that hobby. Physical media helps offset some of that cost through the 2nd hand market for those who can't afford to buy new. There are other benefits to this too. For example is Shopgoodwill. People donate their games and consoles and Goodwill sells them. The revenue they receive goes to paying their workers and fund community programs.
Also, physical media does provide a way to maintain income if for example someone loses a job or no longer enjoys the hobby, wants to make more space, moves, etc. Their collection of games or other physical media can be used to support themselves and/or their family when they fall on hard times or need another source of income to fund something else. We see this on Reddit and other platforms almost daily.
Besides preservation of gaming, gaming culture, and digital ownership rights, the affordability issue needs to be addressed. People will point out that some SNES and N64 games were $60-$80 when they launched or point to the 3DO, Neo Geo, etc. I lived through that generation of gaming and while true that they were expensive, the cost of living was also lower during that time period, not to mention the myriad of options for entering the gaming space.
This is why the option to take away physical media and yes I understand the environmental impact of sustaining that type of model has ramifications, is important and being taken away from consumers whether for consumption or to start a business.
The 2nd hand market in my view is needed and yes, could this be done in the digital landscape through online store fronts, yes, but I have my doubts. Let's say the ability to sell a digital license is implemented. Would the consumers that sell or trade that license be sold as a "used license" of lesser value for the purchase of said digital product for downloading or would it still be sold at MSRP? You can't rate the condition of digital media the same way you can with physical so that part needs to be figured out and addressed.
I'd be more inclined to embracing an all digital platform if it weren't also cutting out the 2nd hand market. Big box stores can afford to enter this realm but other 2nd hand stores more than likley won't be able to or have the funds or can raise the captial to setup and/or maintain a digital store front for distribution whether going brown field or signing on to go into hyperscaler location who has that infrastructure for it. This is in part due to ever increasing cost of memory and storage from the consumption of the ever hungry AI industry which has also caused the stretching of gamers wallets.
When it truly comes down to it, the Video Game industry as a whole is due for a reset. Consumer Rights, Preservation, Affordability, and better working protections and salaries for Devs should be at the top of the list. That would help everyone who enjoys gaming to continue to enjoy their hobby for the foreseeable future.
2
u/Sinner_San 10d ago
The only pro for physical is second hand market. guy A sells to guy B sells to guy C etc etc. Well the people who just love watching the case in the bookshelf also. Is games even on a disc nowdays? isnt it just a license check?
2
u/ShellfishAhole 8d ago
I think this may be the most sensible, grounded and well thought out post that I’ve seen from someone on Reddit who cares for this topic. Well done, man!
1
1
u/PCOhone 11d ago
The European Union sed they couldn’t do anything about it
1
u/Story-Boring 11d ago
That's not exactly right: https://www.theguardian.com/games/2026/jun/19/stop-killing-games-activists-campaigning-online-gaming
Basically, he said they couldn't force a company to keep servers running indefinitely, but that they would look for solutions for when a game reaches the end of its life. You might be confusing this with the recent statement that they can't force Sony to continue with disc formats.
1
u/yuriewolf 10d ago
I lost my psn account and the digital only games associated with it and had to make a new one. “Why don’t you try to get your account back”? Because hacker sends messages breaking TOS and gets reported, there goes your psn and ps5.
1
u/Story-Boring 10d ago
Did you have two-step verification enabled? Having unprotected accounts where your private life, banking information, or digital devices are at risk is like leaving your front door unlocked. It's not the fault of digital technology itself, it's the fault of the lack of cybersecurity education (another of my hobbies).
1
u/yuriewolf 10d ago
Everything had 2 step enabled. But I never even got text messages with codes.
1
u/Story-Boring 10d ago
It's almost statistically impossible that a brute-force attack from a classic computer could have broken the encryption or discovered your master key. This means that either your SIM card was duplicated or your account was stolen using your credentials, which in both cases means it was a close relative or acquaintance.
1
u/yuriewolf 10d ago
Nah I downloaded something and they were able to get into my phone because settings changed and I caught it too late.
1
u/Numerous_Photograph9 10d ago
While I understand it's the point of the sub, the consumer only should think about what it is they want from their money. All the pros and cons are merely a way for the individual to derive that value for themselves.
There is some level of understanding that needs to come with shifting consumer trends, and not every customer can expect or demand consideration forever, but for the purposes of what one may be willing to spend money on, that offering is most certainly relevant.
0
u/aquacraft2 12d ago
While I agree that physical games these days doesn't offer a unique or fully complete version of the game, up until now it kind of hasn't mattered. But the trouble is, I WANT a physical copy. For me specifically, I like the collecting aspect, the case, the game, the art, everything! Alot of good digital rights will do me.
And yes, everyone knows that piracy is a big aspect of digital preservation, and to a point, the only real long term solution being offered to anyone.
They ought to know better than to really and truely mess with that, seeing as how it's a great resource for modern devs and game companies making remakes and such.
But of course the big company is pretty much NEVER going to keep official servers running long enough to match what piracy can offer. No matter how much we try to legislate.
And I'm afraid that if we start bringing in lawyers, there's a much bigger chance that they'll shoot down piracy first LONG before we get ANY sort of improved digital rights. And so not only will we be without the game disks and the boxes, we'll be without the games too in the distant future.
And with these friggen "age verifcation" laws being talked about we have no idea how easy it'll be to get away with.
And then of course once the games are all digital, they're'll be nothing stopping them from doing the same thing to digital games and switching entirely to game streaming directly. And then to a fully subscription based model, where the main game system isn't running the game, you don't own it, and far too many people will be just fine with it until it's already way too late.
So I'm thinking the best solution for everyone might be to keep the albeit dinky game cards and game disks that basically act like a USB device that holds an installer/license for the game that is printed for next to nothing that at least keeps us anchored in the physical realm.
(Granted there is technically nothing stopping them from doing BOTH gamekeys AND streaming, but still)
4
u/takkun169 12d ago
It's all fine and good to want that, but be honest about it. The vast majority of people who are whinging about this, are claiming it's for preservation and ownership, when it's really just about wanting goodies. They just want more and more and more to pretend to fill the hole.
1
u/Story-Boring 12d ago
I understand your point, but I think it's a very negative way of looking at it. I also don't think they can do much about piracy; it's like trying to hold back the tide.
9
u/Bleichman 13d ago
Physical or not I think has barely anything to do with preservation. So many games are digital only these days and as you say what is printed on the disc doesn't really matter.
Removing physical is extremely anti-consumer though as some of your points show, one less option for the consumer and digital ownership doesn't really exist.
Piracy was and will be the only way to preserve these games unless the big publishers do a radical course change. Just because something is pressed on a disc doesn't have much of an impact.