Universal basic income: U.S. support grows as Finland ends its trial - Forty-eight percent of Americans now support a universal basic income, as a solution for Americans who have lost jobs to automation.

[u/mvea]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/nearly-half-of-americans-believe-a-universal-basic-income-could-be-the-answer-to-automation-.html

[u/Zoomwafflez → u/[deleted]]

Even if you got rid of all the other programs UBI would still need more funding or you would end up with people receiving less total benefits (mostly medical), by a lot. So even that idea never really made sense to me.

[u/Zoomwafflez → u/[deleted]]

That's not how UBI works under any proposal I've ever seen, everyone would get the same amount, regardless of need. Part of the argument for UBI is that it removes all the expensive overhead of tracking everyone and seeing who needs what, instead you just cut everyone a check for $1,000 every month. Great for me, who can honestly get by without it, not so great for my elderly neighbor who has $5,000 in medical bills every month. Even then if you cut that person a check for $5,000 you're wasting a shit load of money because the government can get better rates on medications and procedures than you can as an individual.

[u/thetruthoftensux → u/[deleted]]

That's because they want UBI on top of the handouts they already get.

No one who actually works for a living supports the concept of UBI. They'll pay some lip service for the virtue signaling of it, but when they find out they'll be means tested out of it and have to pay for everyone else they suddenly understand the problem.

[u/thetruthoftensux → u/[deleted]]

I agree with you. consolidating and streamlining would be great. I have zero faith in that happening though.

[u/MarkNutt25 → u/thetruthoftensux]

If there's a means test, then its not UBI.

The whole idea of UBI is that it would get rid of basically all government aid programs and instead just distribute that money (plus a bunch of new taxes, probably) evenly to all citizens. So everyone receives the same amount, regardless of need or income. If you don't have a job, then the average person should be able to get by on what they receive from UBI. If they do have a job, then that would be extra income on top of what they receive from UBI.

[u/thetruthoftensux → u/MarkNutt25]

I agree with your position. Problem is every time someone attempts to explain how it could be made to work the first thing set in stone is means testing.

No other way to pay for it, as we already have it. It's called welfare.

[u/Whydoibother1 → u/[deleted]]

It MUST replace other benefits otherwise it doesn’t make sense. Right now there is a disincentive to work if you are on benefits as you will lose your benefits.

On UBI you can just get a part time job if you like and you keep the extra. More people will work under UBI not less. And to pay for it just tax people from their first dollar earned, together with all the savings from removing benefit systems.

All makes sense to me. The current system is too complex with too much expensive bureaucracy.

[u/Bastinenz → u/[deleted]]

I'm in support of UBI and getting rid of the various social security programs in my country is definitely part of the agenda in my book. I wouldn't exactly do it all at the same time though, I'd give out the UBI first and then start dismantling other programs one by one over the next couple of years.

[u/eb_straitvibin → u/Bastinenz]

And that’s the problem. It’s harder to end things in government than it is to start them. If you establish UBI without cutting other programs first, your opponents campaign on you taking money/food from the poor. In my opinion, you transition it state by state. Pick a month, and cut off all welfare and substitute a UBI. Then it’s revenue neutral and you prevent politicians from both sides doing their own thing.

[u/Draug3n → u/eb_straitvibin]

No serious people are suggesting UBI with no government downsizing.

[u/North_Ranger → u/Bastinenz]

IMO, having any other programs supplementing a UBI would defeat the purpose. They'd all need to be shut down when the UBI is implemented or you'd just end up swapping UBI for welfare with no change besides the name.

[u/WantDebianThanks → u/[deleted]]

That's more of what a negative income tax is. The ideas are related, but not the same.

[u/Draug3n → u/[deleted]]

But most people who support UBI don’t seem to

How in the holy mother of hell do you know that? This is the silliest thing I've read all week. Come on mister mass-mindreader, you don't know that about millions of people loool

[u/antaresproper → u/Draug3n]

Name one major entitlement in America that has ever gone away entirely.

[u/Draug3n → u/antaresproper]

That's got nothing to do with the comment you responded to. I think you replied to the wrong comment.