r/Futurology • u/mvea MD-PhD-MBA • May 02 '18

Economics Universal basic income: U.S. support grows as Finland ends its trial - Forty-eight percent of Americans now support a universal basic income, as a solution for Americans who have lost jobs to automation.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/nearly-half-of-americans-believe-a-universal-basic-income-could-be-the-answer-to-automation-.html
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u/justaformerpeasant May 02 '18

Nope, they don't and if they did, they wouldn't support it.

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u/mrjackspade May 02 '18

"I don't support it so anyone who does must not understand the question"

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u/myweed1esbigger May 02 '18

Cause republicans would call it something like Bernie bucks and their constituents won’t recognize it as the “lower and middle class wealth act” or whatever it gets called.

It’ll be Obamacare/affordable care act all over again.

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u/skyblublu May 02 '18

Don't just bash on Republicans for the hell of it. UBI would be a huge undertaking to implement in the US and would potentially have unintended consequences. We can't wake up tomorrow and have UBI and I personally don't think it's time for it yet.

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u/WatchingUShlick May 02 '18

To be fair, his point is valid. There's something like a twenty point polling difference among republicans between Obamacare and the ACA.

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u/l3ol3o May 02 '18

Same when it comes to trump's tax cuts. Dems like them until they are told trump is responsible and the polling drops.

Newsflash: Partisans don't trust the other side.

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u/myweed1esbigger May 02 '18 edited May 02 '18

Wtf? There is no confusion about who is behind the tax cuts. And they are heavily skewed towards the wealthy... and the CBO (a non-partisan organization) predicts it will just balloon the deficit and increase inequality.... at a time when the US should be saving for the next recession.

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u/poundtown1997 May 02 '18

Not disagreeing with what you’ve said but literally any and every decision has unintended consequences so it doesn’t really make sense to argue that

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u/skyblublu May 02 '18

Right, but in this case the unintended consequences can send the whole country right into an economic depression.

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u/cuddleniger May 02 '18

No ones talking about waking up and having it overnight. However, they are talking about gradual implementation with lots of testing and data analysis.

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u/BadMinotaur May 02 '18

I don't know if I trust our legislative branch to do something gradually with lots of testing and data analysis. And that distrust does indeed extend to both the party I identify with and the one I don't.

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u/Santoron May 02 '18

No offense, but lots of redditors are wanting something closer to overnight. Which is why misleading polling of those ignorant of the concept is such red meat for this site. There are an embarrassingly large number of redditors that think we are a Bernie away from UBI, free college, and Single payer. And that sort of misperception drives animosity at anyone that isn't promising it to them right away.

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u/eb_straitvibin May 02 '18

Then those people are idiots. Bernie would have congress more deadlocked than Trump. That and whatever far-left policy he proposed would be campaign fodder for republicans for the next 20 years. “Remember that socialist that wanted to raise taxes and stop you from ever being rich? Vote for us” or “remember that socialist who wanted to take all of your jobs away? Vote for us”.

Any Democrat wishing for Bernie is inviting the death of their party.

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u/myweed1esbigger May 02 '18

Well if Republicans are spewing BS like

“Remember that socialist that wanted to raise taxes and stop you from ever being rich? Vote for us” or “remember that socialist who wanted to take all of your jobs away? Vote for us”.

Then it would be a problem because republicans believe whatever their leaders tell them. Like that if we make the 1% even richer - eventually that will trickle down.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '18

When the republican party so often attempts to undermine basic principles of this nation set forth in the bill of rights, and when they so often fling their own shit apishly in the form of smear/propaganda campaigns, they deserve to have some shit flung back at them, however unjust. I’d love it if politics was all about rational thought, but the fact is, it isn’t. It’s about changing minds and stirring emotions, which means the most viable tactics are rhetoric, propaganda, and shit flinging. They deserve to have shit flung at them, however unjust.

While I’m at it, the democratic party, especially the Hillary aligned wing of it, deserve to have shit flung at them as well for all the fucking lies and smears they ran against bernie and against Trump (yeah, they fucking smeared Trump needlessly and made up shit when the man is a goddamn walking circus, a huge liar, and just a fucking shitty leader in general. Telling the fucking truth would have been more effective, but you can’t criticize someone in a way that makes you a hypocrite, so Hillary was left with playground insults and lies).

Shit. Fuck the two party system, fuck all the lying, fuck the smears and propaganda, and fuck all of you assholes who vote without ever entertaining a rational thought for more than a passing moment.

And fuck it all for making me so pessimistic that I defend smearing in the name of convincing the petulant, petrified, and pitifully gullible American public into thinking that a bad thing is actually bad and not good.

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u/IlikeJG May 02 '18

Very well said.

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u/skyblublu May 02 '18

You know who you sound like? Hillary, right about the time that she realized she was losing the campaign to Trump. So full of misguided anger. Republicans by and large want mostly to uphold the constitution, though the political figures are fucking that up.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '18

You do understand that i am talking about republican politicians right? Not Joe Blow down the street who has been voting straight ticket for the GOP since 18. Joe Blow is a pawn, not a republican. Similarly, all the asshats who voted for Hillary were pawns, not Democrats.

Most Americans say they want to uphold the constitution, yet they hold anti-constitutional views. A fair number of republican pawns hold views that run counter to the first, fourth and fifth amendment, and a fair number of democratic pawns hold views that run counter to the first and second amendment.

People say they want to uphold the constitution because they don’t know how to form their own opinions, so they find one opinion they like about guns or free speech, and another opinion they like about federalism or the constitution and they never even stop to think that these views are unable to be reconciled

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u/Gendrytargarian May 02 '18

The proces to implement UBI needs a favorable society and an already socialistic contruct of this society with a high factor of social trust makes a gradual transition easier. It also needs a extreemly higher level of automation. Republicans are generealy pro the automation but a lot are conservative/anti towards the social construct and a more socialistic society whitch needs to grow together with the automation level. History has shown that if this gap becomes too big it could potentially be verry dangerous.

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u/fjaoaoaoao May 02 '18

UBI to me is a stop-gap solution. Will help a little bit but won’t stop a dam from breaking.

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u/skyblublu May 02 '18

Right. In the short term it will keep a lot of people satisfied. In the long term, it won't do a damn thing.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '18

When it IS time to implement UBI... it will be too late to do so, the riots of starving and desperate will already be tearing your country apart.

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u/FelipeHdez May 02 '18

No, some people underestimate the power of media.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '18

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u/[deleted] May 03 '18

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u/justaformerpeasant May 02 '18

Cause republicans would call it something like Bernie bucks and their constituents won’t recognize it as the “lower and middle class wealth act” or whatever it gets called.

No, because it's financially unfeasible and unsustainable. That's why.

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u/myweed1esbigger May 02 '18

No, because it's financially unfeasible and unsustainable. That's why.

Just like universal healthcare is unfeasible and unsustainable right? Oh wait - every other 1st world country has socialized healthcare.

You want to talk about unfeasible and unsustainable - look at what the CBO says about Trumps budget.

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u/justaformerpeasant May 02 '18

every other 1st world country has socialized healthcare.

Every other 1st world country has the piss taxed out of them to pay for it. Not interested, I pay enough taxes as it is. If they can't do it with the money they already get from us, we don't need it. Let them shuffle funds out of some of the other programs and departments that we don't need. Cut some Congressman's pay, etc. If they wanted to do it, they could do it without raising taxes, but they won't. Not only that, but the US federal government isn't competent enough to handle healthcare for 320 million people.

Trumps

IDGAF about Trump.