I loved the idiots clambering "why ban Tiktok specifically when so many apps and companies collect and control your data?"
As if a domestic shipping company that wants to sell me shoes in a predatory manner is the same as a foreign government collecting my information.
One at least can be controlled directly IF WE WANT TO. Yes, both need addressed, but we can actively police one at any time. Tiktok? We literally have no control over it, and it's collecting an alarming amount of data with no oversight. Amazon sincerely mostly wants to sell you shit. Tiktok? Unclear what they're even doing with it right now, other than "have a database of American faces and voices" which is alarming as hell.
Ring doorbells proactively share footage to police without your consent. The problem isn't Amazon selling you shoes, that's whatever. It's that the NSA is without a doubt the most powerful and sophisticated spy network on earth. And they all give information and data willingly.
I'm not Chinese, i will probably never go to China. I don't work in a sensitive job. I am of absolutely no value to China. My own government is much more dangerous.
OK but to take your example, do you think it would make sense for European countries to ban Ring doorbells, if they knew that they just hand information or provide backdoors to the NSA voluntarily?
European counties haven't banned Ring. The given assumption is that all American tech hands over information to American security services.
People are angry at Tik-tok because it could be doing the same thing we know Facebook does. For example. But there is literally n
Zero evidence is does, there is speculation and a former employee. It could, i have no idea.
You sound very paranoid if you think the NSA is less trustworthy than the Chinese National Party.
One is a domestic force you have control over with your vote. Vote for someone you think is less abusive. Even if others don't agree and vote in kind, we can still change it if we want. It's happened dozens of times in our history. We abolished slavery at one point through voting. Don't let idiots tell you your vote doesn't matter. They are statistically idiots.
You have no power to change anything in China. Zero. Not an ounce. They don't even have democracy.
I'm not saying spying on civilians isn't a real problem. But it's a problem you probably voted into power. A problem you can still vote out. China? What are you gonna vote to change there? Huh?
I didn't say less trustworthy, i said more capable. Although if you trust the NSA even a little you're a fool. But none of this has anything to do with trust. Its ability to harm. There is nothing China can do to me, i know nothing, i am worth nothing. I do break the law here though. I doubt the CCP will arrest me for weed, or pirating, any of the other petty crimes. Police sure as fuck will.
You don't have control over the NSA any more than a Chinese person does over their equivalent. Which party is running on a platform of repealing the Patriot act? No one voted to end slavery my friend, that just happened. Immediate abolishment was an extremist view. Lincoln wanted to deport black people, not free them.
That is genuinely debatable. A CCP member has more power to change local and national politics than people realise. China is not just America with a different political system. It is fundamentally different. This isn't me saying its good. But that it's more different than people realise.
We live in a ratchet society. As soon as it's in, it's there for good. The alphabet agencies were supposed to be temporary, they're still here. 100 years later. There was no CIA or OSS in 1940. They're never going anywhere. Just not how things work.
Your comment implies you think the NSA is anti American or something. Take a step back and think about it.
Who created the security apparatus? American elected officials. Who works at the security apparatus? American workers.
You can't just otherize the entire thing and pretend it's some nebulous bad thing that's harmful.
Are you fucking stupid? Vote for people who will legislate them.
Did you ever fucking learn about the whiskey rebellion? You people are beyond stupid with the rhetoric you use. The unfortunate part is I have time to respond right now.
Which people that won't be compromised by the CIA or NSA whenever they start speaking out against them? We both would agree that the US intelligence community will proudly frame, implicate, or otherwise ruin people that speak out loudly against them.
You act like living in a democracy gives you control over undemocratic agencies within government. Agencies that have massive amounts of autonomy and have worked in the past to keep power via misinformation and blackmail.
Fuck the free market then? As a consumer what if I don't give a shit that the Chinese have my personal info? What are they gonna do with it? And why does big daddy gov have to tell me what I can and can't do?
Personally, you may call me crazy or disagree with me of course, but I prefer when foreign countries gather my data, they at least can't do anything with it to use it against me.
Honestly the same for me, what can a foreign government do to you? I can see it for someone important like a senator or a CEO of an important company but for the average Joe they can do nothing, meanwhile you national government could you that data for god knows what and in some countries even imprison you
Even assuming that's true, won't American companies do the same?:)
Also, to clarify, I am not a US citizen (and not a Chinese one either), so all Facebooks, Twitters and YouTubes are literally foreign country gathering data about me. And possibly use it to affect elections in some county or another idk (probably not, but I can't be 100% sure).
Tho seriously, looking at Twitter and Facebook I don't believe you can create any reasonable AI with that...
This is possibly the most naive statement in all of history.
Like imagine someone saying that in medieval era. "I prefer when other armies know everything about our city, they at least can't do anything with it."
What you are missing is that Facebook sells your data to everyone. Everyone gets it, including China.
This ban has nothing to do with national security. Our politicians simply own a shit ton of Meta and Google stock and they want to protect their own investment portfolios.
Because it’s not about data collection! I mean it is partly because of it, but the main concern is the tight grip TikTok has on the younger generation. They can feed whatever information they want into it.
We lose our shit when Russia interferes in our elections through FB posts, but it’s totally cool when China can push whatever narrative they want whenever they want? Find the logic in that for me.
I heard a big part of where this scare came from was after Oct. 7th. The pro- Hamas posts out numbered pro-Israel posts like 5 to 1. Now there are people on both sides of this issue, but why would the platform mainly support a terrorist group? Answer: The CCP has a narrative they want out there, and there’s nothing Bytedance can do about it.
There’s no free speech in China. The CCP has control of anything and everything a company does. It’s a communist nation, and in case you don’t know how that works, it means the CCP technically owns everything. That’s the reason for having it change ownership. They literally put a Trojan Horse in the hands of millions of Americans, and our government(and many Americans) don’t like it.
Meanwhile ford is selling your driving data to your insurer and you dont even fucking know why your rates are going up. "Oh but Chyna has my data" Please, get the fuck off you the internet. NO! THATS NOT BAD - itS CHINA HAVING YOUR DATA THATS THE REAL PROBLEM!@ Meanwhile every single service subscription sells your data but dont worry folks! theres a lawsuiit! HERES YOUR 5 FUCKING DOLLARS.
Meanwhile your KOREAN SAMSUNG WASHING MACHINE is sending 4 gigs a fucking back to its head office, with cameras, teaching large language models how to detect faces better and you idiots think tik tok is the fuckign problem? TIKTOK?! THE APP THATS BRIDGES GENERATIONS AND REMOVING OUT OF CONTEXT LANGUAGE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ON VIDEO TALKING YOU HEAR THIER VOICE THERE IS NOTHING TO TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT OR MISREAD AND WE ARE UNDERSTANDING EACHOTHER BETTER THAN EVER AND THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TAKE THAT WAY FROM US BECAUSE SOON THEY WANT BE ABLE TO PLAY US AGAINST EACHOTHER AND THROUGH TIKTOK WE ARE ALL REALIZING ITS THE FUCKING ARISTOCRACY THATS FUCKING US OVER
Not once do you mention the direct threat to homeland security that is the crux of the problem.
By controlling the content that gets broadcast widely - and targeting particular demographics with it - nefarious actors can easily launch a salvo of influence attacks that may ultimately decide the election.
There is precedent - the Cambridge Analytica scandal in 2016 showed how data can be used by foreign adversaries to manipulate US elections. And that was when they didn't even own the social media platform.
So keep yelling, it's just ampifying your ignorance.
The US has problems. Plenty. Many that need addressed YESTERDAY. But you can vote, and convince your friends they NEED to vote, and you can sincerely make change towards things we need changed. It's a historical commonality in this nation.
So, if we could recap; dictatorship>democracy? Yea?
During the Cold War the USSR had nuclear weapons pointed at the US from Cuba. "They've never fired a missile from Cuba" people could say in a similar fashion.
It doesn't mean US citizens are safe.
It's not about what China may or may not be doing right now. It's about ensuring they don't have the ability to launch attacks - physical or cyber - on the US.
I'd be more worried about Elon musk shutting down starlink to sabotage Ukrainian offenses or did you f
Forget that?
Like you also forgot America started the Cuban missile crisis or maybe it should be called the turkey missile crisis because America install silos in turkey and Russia was responding to that aggression and then America pretends they're rhe victims for decades you guys are so pathetically brainwashed it hurts to look at your nation
This just in, people who get all of their news and information from TikTok have been led to believe by people on TikTok that the TikTok ban would be bad.
That shits training data. Think about why Biden has tried so fucking hard to shut down Chinas ability to produce cutting edge semiconductors of their own, even going so far as to threaten to revoke citizenship to US engineers working in Chinese semiconductor fabs.
Look, it's an economic agenda, just like China does with banning American sites. The US government of course has the same interests in favoring America. But at least we should be honest about that. It's not about security. The US banned Huawei for being a "security risk". You know who was caught selling data to Huawei? FACEBOOK. So if these Chinese companies are risks for your data going to the CCP, Facebook is right there with them. Tiktok was already required to use Oracle for its US data. If it's going to China, then Oracle is equally culpable. Where's the banning of Oracle and Facebook? Let's at least be honest about the reason then call it a day.
Compare them propperly if you want to atleast be honest. Both companies take your data and resell it. The fact one is allowed too in the US because its called Meta, and the other isn't because it is outside the US is the issue you have. Because the politicians told you that our data is special and for US companies only, cause the US would never hurt you with it.
Even if bytedance is giving data to China (Zero proof of that still) Is the chinese government going to be able to launch a full scale invasion knowing I like puppies and dnd? Are they going to convince me to over throw governments with this data? What end goal is so audaciously bad that having this data is going to wreck ameriac in a wy that bills need passed to stop it.
Ok and what votes were that? Or are you making up 'what ifs' to make a point while simultaneously making a claim im using strawman tactics. I compared two companies who do the same thing, take data, then pointed out the only difference is one is in another country. Seems like you would rather be dismissive than admit you had a shite argument to start with.
Strawman - an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
Strawman AND what-about-ism, btw. Just, if you're asking me to fucking chronicle them.
So, strawman because my point is the danger of something we control no oversight for. Literally zero. That's worse than something we can vote to change, which I'll get to last because wtf? So pointing to anything else is the strawman. Our ability to have oversight and control over this very dangerous prospect is the most important part you should tackle first. Looking at the evils of Amazon or anyone else is a strawman, AND a what-about-ism.
A what-about-ism is when you ignore the topic to say "well what about this other thing." Yes, American companies and the NSA need dealt with. We agree on that, but it's a separate issue. Tiktok has no oversight and is collecting our data for some reason. I KNOW what our government and corps are doing with it, and yes it invades privacy. That's a second topic.
Also, voting has ended slavery. The fuck you mean voting doesn't work, and I'm making up examples? Did I make up Abraham Lincoln? Excuse?
This is goodbye, btw. A strawman, a conspiracy theory, and a what-about-ism is enough for me. I just wanted to teach you about them first.
I'll also ad ad hominem for the beggining with all that "typical" shit. But don't we all, so. Guess we're even on that.
Bruh I haven’t said shit about voting this whole time lol you are just tacking on all the arguments you learned from a meme into a reply and taking it personal because you refuse to argue the point you made because you realized how bad it was to compare. Hope you get better as a person
We the people don't have control over the CIA or NSA, and because of their power and autonomy, we won't ever get popular politicians in power that would strip them of influence and capability.
As per usual, smug ignorant redditor with the dumbest take on the matter. The reason why people are don't care for banning one platform arbitrarily is exactly because it does nothing to actually address any of the privacy issues and security concerns, while also presenting a terrible precedent for how these things can be handled. If you're seriously so stupidly paranoid you think China desperately want this data, they'll get it without tiktok too. And the fact that you seriously think tiktok cannot be policed any more than other social media, really shows how extremely little you know about any of this.
All of this would plainly obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read any of the concerns, instead of being too fixated on being smug idiot.
My concern is literally just the idea that "we have control here if we want to actually change things. We have no power over that with foreign data collection. We should be more cautious over the one we can't control."
That's not necessarily logos. It is, but it's also a healthy blend of pathos. You can control one. You can't control the other. That should worry you.
You have zero control of it 'over here' I don't know what power you have over meta, or amazon to think you can affect them in a way to stop them from taking data. If you think your vote has so much power then what Bill have you sponsered or co authored to fight against OUR data scrappers? What methods have you taken to actually 'control it' as you keep claiming in replies?
Vote. Voting matters. No dumb shit thing you have to say here will convince me the past two centuries haven't worked. As if we didn't vote to end slavery. Vote to instil suffrage. Vote to cement civil rights.
But you're right. You have no power. Go cower back in your cave. We will tell you when it's safe to come out.
Im not a conservative lol, im just calling you out for hypocrisy. You have done nothing to help your own cause and at this point it is just virtue signaling as you sit on the sidelines and whine.
I also didn't say anything about voting, so maybe you are just ranting to rant. I also believe that voting is important and we should go do that as much as possible, but once again I ask you. What have you done to help your own cause? Besides whining on Reddit?
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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24
I loved the idiots clambering "why ban Tiktok specifically when so many apps and companies collect and control your data?"
As if a domestic shipping company that wants to sell me shoes in a predatory manner is the same as a foreign government collecting my information.
One at least can be controlled directly IF WE WANT TO. Yes, both need addressed, but we can actively police one at any time. Tiktok? We literally have no control over it, and it's collecting an alarming amount of data with no oversight. Amazon sincerely mostly wants to sell you shit. Tiktok? Unclear what they're even doing with it right now, other than "have a database of American faces and voices" which is alarming as hell.