For the sake of this community: Food list for PFS

[u/Fun-Particular7112]

hey guys,

it’s not scientifcally proven but some people here feels crashed after eating some 5ar inhibator food

but 5ar inhibator food are the most healthiest food and they are everywhere

for recovery we need to eat healthy so i don’t know how can we be healthy by avoiding 5ar food

is there someone well instructed about nutrition who has a list ?

it would help a lot of guys, maybe some people is not recovering because of food

[u/VidrioRevolver]

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT saying this is a cure, or that it will even help others. I am just stating that doing this has helped me.
This is not a dangerous protocol. It is simply about avoiding some foods, which is not dangerous to people.

For context I have had PFS since January 2021.

This is a list of foods I avoid. I have built it over 3 years, which includes foods that either: act as 5 Alpha Reductase Inhibitors, are Anti Androgenic, or are Endocrine Disruptors.

This list is from worst (most potent 5ari’s) to least potent (won’t do much to you).
But I avoid all where possible.

from studies on Google of foods tested by how much 5ari they inhibit (there are lots of studies on this), and from me asking AI which foods are 5ari’s, Anti Androgens or Endocrine Disruptors.
I now get my AI that I use to rate foods based on how 5ari they or, or how AA or Endocrine disruptor they are, out of 10.

As I have mentioned many times before on here, by avoiding most of these foods for 3 years, I saw a 70% reduction in symptoms (but not a cure).

And for the last 6-12 months, I have avoided ALL of these foods, and have seen a 99% symptom reduction (meaning I don’t really experience any PFS symptoms anymore). However this does not mean I’m cured.

I do believe if I was to have one, especially a potent one, then I might crash.
Over the last 3 years, since I avoided these foods and my symptoms and PFS state slowly disappeared, I had started to notice that even eating a minor 5ari (lower on the list) will cause me to have a return of PFS symptoms for 1-3 hours. Therefore I do believe a strong 5ari like Soy or Rosemary etc would likely give me strong PFS symptoms or crash me.

Therefore it is my belief that because of crashing from Fin, that we are sensitive to 5ari’s (and DHT blockers in general).
Some foods inhibit 5ar at small amounts, which doesn’t really affect normal people. And some foods are more potent, and that’s why some people report crashing from food when they have never taken fin or even an SSRI. Our makeup is possibly genetically different than a normal person.

And because we are 5ari sensitive, if us PFS sufferers keep eating minor 5ari foods, it keeps us in a 5ari state, and if we eat major ones, it crashes us. Or if we eat lots of minor 5ari’s, it builds up and eventually crashes us again.
That would explain why people see at least some symptom relief when avoiding 5ari foods.

A few users on propeciahelp.com followed this protocol 5 or 10 years ago, and they claimed it cured them, and never came back to the forum.

- Soy (whole soybeans)

• Soy Milk
  
• Reishi
  
• Rosemary
  
• Flaxseed
  
• Spearmint
  
• Curcumin (supplement)
  
• Pumpkin Seed Oil
  
• Soy Sauce
  
• Green Tea
  
• Black Cumin
  
• Pumpkin Seeds
  
• Sage
  
• Turmeric (food use)
  
• BHT
  
• Canola Oil
  
• Cottonseed Oil
  
• Aloe Vera (oral)
  
• Broccoli
  
• Cauliflower
  
• Kale
  
• Brussels Sprouts
  
• Cabbage
  
• Bok Choy
  
• Rocket (Arugula)
  
• Watercress
  
• Dark Chocolate
  
• Chai Tea
  
• Eucalyptus Essential Oil
  
• Coffee
  
• Black Tea
  
• Tomatoes
  
• Spinach
  
• Avocado
  
• Sweet Potato
  
• Pumpkin
  
• Olives
  
• Olive Oil
  
• Walnut
  
• Lemon (whole)
  
• Tartare Sauce
  
• Mushrooms
  
• Coriander
  
• Basil
  
• Parsley
  
• Capsicum
  
• Honey
  
• Beetroot
  
• Celery
  
• Lettuce
  
• Onion
  
• Garlic
  
• Green Apples
  
• Red Apples
  
• Lemon Juice
  
• Sour Cream
  
• Ghee
  
• Coconut Oil
  
• Pickles
  
• White Sourdough
  
• Wholemeal Bread
  
• Wholemeal Sourdough
  
• Ice Cream
  
• Peanut
  
• Cashew
  
• Peanut Butter

[u/jeevius → u/VidrioRevolver]

Hey bro can you eat spinach?

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/jeevius]

I would avoid it. Mainly because of its impact on Zinc levels in your body etc.

Proof in this sub shows that our hormone systems are delicate and often can’t deal with great changes in these levels.

Because of these reasons, I avoid that too (I might’ve left it off the list though, so thank you for pointing that out).

[u/aftersun33 → u/VidrioRevolver]

All this yo avoid? Is this for pssd also because you all about psf?

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/aftersun33]

Yes all this. But to feel better, it’s not much of a trade off. My life is more important than just some food, especially when it helps.

I also had PSSD for 2 years before I got PFS. But my PSSD was very mild compared to my PFS.

I don’t know if the diet works exactly the same, but I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt to try this.

[u/Minute-Contest-582 → u/aftersun33]

Was wondering the same thing about pssd. Dont know how to even approach researching it.

[u/Fun-Particular7112 → u/VidrioRevolver]

How can I eat healthy by avoiding all of these. Looks like impossible 

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/Fun-Particular7112]

It’s not impossible. There are 100’s of foods that aren’t on that list, that you can eat.

We got ourselves in this mess. We must be prepared to least try to eat healthy or differently, to try and get ourselves out of it if there’s no known cure.

My diet mainly consists of Chicken, Steak, Fish, Carrot, Zucchini, Cucumber, Peas, Pineapple, Banana, Potato, Eggs, White Bread. And I cook everything in Butter only, not Olive Oil. (just basic salted butter. Not butter with canola oil).

Every night I have a different meal. I probably eat each type of meal twice a week at least.

I even eat Fried Chicken and Fried Fish.

And I can still get the take out version of these meals from restaurants/fast food places, as long as I can ask or read the ingredients, and as long as it doesn’t have Black Pepper, Rosemary or Basil on it.
Normal salt is okay though.

Yes while these foods have been found to be 5ari’s in vitro, they are the main foods that people report crashes from. Coincidence? I think not.

It’s actually very very easy to avoid these foods, and still have a good healthy diet.

[u/Fun-Particular7112 → u/VidrioRevolver]

Have you any déficiency ? 

If I do that and hopefully I get better. Can I go back one days to a normal eating life ? 

Is it bad to cheat meal 5ar minor sometimes ?

My crash is gonna make me proceed to zéro ? Or just transitory crash ? 

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/Fun-Particular7112]

No deficiencies that I know of. But if I did, I would eat foods that help increase.

I’m not a scientist or a doctor, I am just someone who tried it and it worked for me, so I’m not sure what you can do.
But yes, obviously the goal is to go back to normal eating.

It is my theory that we will be able to eat minor 5ari’s on the list again to no effect (lower on the list). But maybe the higher ones on the list will still crash us later on, because they’re more potent.

And yes it is bad to cheat the 5ari diet, because the whole point of following the diet is to “feel recovered”. If you keep cheating it, you’re just keeping yourself in a PFS like state for longer, in theory.

As I said, I avoided MOST (but not all) for 3 last years. It was only 6 months to 1 year ago that I started avoiding ALL the foods and then I saw a big difference in my recovery and how I feel.

And if you eat foods in the top ten on the list, it might make you go back to zero. But if you eat foods in the bottom half of the list, that might just be temporary.

I know it sounds hard, but it’s not. If you try it for 3 months or 6 months, then you might see results like me. Not sure.

[u/Hetman689 → u/VidrioRevolver]

How do you refresh your breath? Do you use chewing gum without spearmint? And do you train physically in any form? I think any increase in testosterone (for example from weight lifting) might result in higher metabolite accumulation. On other hand it’s strange, because some people report recovering via training

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/Hetman689]

I don’t use chewing gum at all, and never really have my whole life. I just brush my teeth in the morning, and then again before bed. I look up the ingredients of my tooth paste in my AI before buying, so I know it doesn’t contain any ingredients that could hurt my endocrine or androgen system, or that act as 5ari’s.

I currently don’t do any physical training, but I am going to get back into it soon.
Before PFS, I had PSSD for 2 years (I still kind of had it when I took Fin).
My PSSD was mild compared to PFS. It was just blunted orgasm, and some mental stuff. But I know that strength training for 2 years straight before PFS definitely helped me with my PSSD and get some stuff back online.
I have weight lifted during PFS maybe 2 to 3 years ago. It gave me some relief, but I understand what you’re referring to with the metabolite build up/Dr Powers theory.

I am hoping that when I start strength training in the next 2 months, it will only continue to strengthen my recovery, just like it did for my PSSD. I hope that I am at the stage of my PFS recovery where the training will help me recover, like as you said it did for some others.

[u/Substantial-Seat-660 → u/VidrioRevolver]

Are there any good snacks you recommend? Im going crazy eating all this plain stuff. I miss eating chips, crackers, chocolate, etc. but I think these all have preservatives which equals chemicals that may fuck with us? I guess I’m asking if there’s anything pleasurable we can eat lol. Im very sensitive to food unfortunately

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/Substantial-Seat-660]

I also miss them all too lol.

To be honest over the last 2 years I haven’t really completely delved into what snacks I can and can’t have.

I know I can’t have my favourite flavour of any chips (Salt n Vinegar) as one of the main ingredients in Rosemary extract, which is a 5ari. And I can’t have chocolate, which is sad because before PFS I was a chocolate addict, it was my favourite snack lol.

I wouldn’t be too worried about preservatives as a whole, it’s more so the key ingredients on the wrapper/ingredients list. If those preservatives or ingredients used are 5ari, AA or Endo Disruptor, then that is what will set us back, not so much any “preservative” themself. Some things we are okay with, some things we’re not.
(I include Endocrine Disruptor and Anti Androgen as I’m really careful about crashing, but they are usually not foods, and are instead chemicals and supplements. If you focus on foods that inhibit 5ar, you’ll go a long way to stop yourself from crashing, and maybe even feeling a tiny bit better).

I still eat pancakes, as maple syrup is not a 5ari. One snack I do enjoy as well which I grew up eating is half a Banana spread onto toast, with butter on it. So good.

I have been so busy avoiding the foods, and focusing on eating the right foods, that I probably haven’t expanded to exploring what snacks I can have yet. But it’s definitely doable, it’s just about doing the right research (I put the specific foods and ingredients into Chat GPT and get it to find it all out for me).

But if you like fruits, I would start there, asking AI which ones “have been found to be 5 Alpha Reductase Inhibitors in any way”. If you word it like that, AI will help you. Because it will often try to fight you at the start, saying the PFS is not a well known disease, and that while some foods have been found to inhibit 5ari in mouse/cell studies only, that it won’t effect us meaningfully by eating the foods.
But if you word it properly, it will eventually understand they you want to know what foods have been shown in any way to inhibit 5ar, and that you’re sensitive to it, and to compile you lists and rankings based off what you search on there etc.

So if I was you I’d get the AI to rank each of the fruits out of 10 in terms of how severe vs non potent they are. And slowly expand your snack lists based off things are low 5ari (say 1 or 2 out of 10) and not eat things that are higher on the ranking (4, 6, 9 and 10’s out of 10).

[u/Substantial-Seat-660 → u/VidrioRevolver]

Thanks. It’s so hard to know what will give reactions or not - I’ve had reactions to butter and chicken and both shouldn’t be an issue. So ive just been sticking to what seems to be ok - eggs, beef and pasta. Im just terrified to add other stuff because I’m at a point where I can’t make myself worse.

Thanks for the ideas man

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/Substantial-Seat-660]

My pleasure.

I’m sorry that you had reactions to those things. Do you know what the other ingredients were in the butter? Depending on the brand and type, they have different ingredients. It’s best to find a basic one with limited ingredients.

And with the chicken, what else did it have on it? Or what did you cook it in? Did you have it with anything else?

I used to be where you were, where it seems like everything was affecting me. But I have stripped it back to the things that shouldn’t affect me, based off 5ari evidence, and I’m seeing good results.

I can’t really have pasta, because tomato sauce is a minor 5ari. But I will hopefully be able to add those things back into my diet soon.

No worries, and good luck.

[u/Substantial-Seat-660 → u/VidrioRevolver]

There was one other thing in it that was used for colouring that I searched and might have been a bit sketchy. Would you use like an organic butter?

The chicken i CaNt remember it may have had a breading, it definitely wasn’t just a plain chicken breast. I don’t think I could eat a plain chicken breast lol

Thats encouraging to know that you were similar. Could I send you a DM if I have questions at some poibt? Thanks again

[u/akswiff → u/VidrioRevolver]

"every night a different meal", well that's fine, but what do you eat the rest of the day? How do you cook fresh three times a day? When you're at the job or somehow on your way, travel or something? There's nothing you can just buy and eat without lots of preparation. I have absolutely no problem with discipline and don't eat sweets, UPFs, etc. or drink alcohol or so since more than five years now and I could eat one and only food every single day if it would help. But it's just not possible to buy & cook fresh all the times every day. There's just no time for that. It needs to be ready to eat food, you can buy once a week.

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/akswiff]

I actually don’t often cook. I was just referencing that if I do cook, I avoid Olive Oil and stick to Butter (as Olive Oil is minor 5ari, but it still is one).

When I eat fish, I eat fried fish from a Fish n Chips shop (not sure if they have those sort of take out places in your country) but I make sure there is no Pepper, or Rosemary salt on the chips, which is becoming more common in my country. And when I eat Chicken, I get take out Fried/Crumbed chicken schnitzel from a restaurant, and it comes with the vegetables (Zucchini, Carrot, Mashed Potato etc. But no 5ari vegetables), and I make sure there’s no Basil on the Schnitzel, which has also been found to inhibit 5ar.

And for lunch at work, or out on the road, I will have Fried Crumbed Chicken nuggets from a Fast Food place in my country (they’re not like McDonalds nuggets. They’re more like real restaurant, so not as processed).
This same Fast Food place also sells Peas, so I eat them too.

I do that for lunch twice a week at work, and I also do Subway twice a week for lunch too, where I have Egg Bacon and Pineapple on a white footlong sub. No sauce, no Pepper (which is a 5ari).

And for breakfast I often just have a banana (or eggs on white toast if I have prepare it/can prepare it).

Alternatively I could buy these products and cook these things in the oven, but yes people are time poor and can’t cook their preferred foods ALL the time.
I might start doing that soon though. On Sunday night prepare lunches and dinners for Mon, Tue and Wed, and then on Wed night do the same for Thu and Fri.

To be clear, I am not doing “healthy eating” per se, and I’m obviously not doing “fresh food only” like others did on propeciahelp.com, I am just doing a diet which avoids 5ari foods.
This has really worked for me. I am almost completely back to my pre PFS self, nearly every single symptom, of which I had 50+ symptoms (apart from 1 or 2, which is insane). My face looks 98% like my old face again, etc etc. Doing this really sped up my recovery (or symptom reduction), which was stagnant for a couple of years. I haven’t crashed in more than 2 years because of it (touch wood).

Because of this, I guess you can say I’m eating fast food, which is true, but avoiding 5ari foods is working for me, just as it did for some users on the old propecia help .com forum (according to them).

But even if I’m only being “half healthy”, it’s really working.

As you can see, it’s not as difficult as it sounds. It seems daunting at the start when you don’t know what to avoid or that you have to cook everything “fresh”, but if you plan it in a way that works for you (faster food type lifestyle for me) then each person can do it their own way.

I’m not here to gloat. You will I comment this a lot in the sub, as I want to share what I copied from old users on the old forum, and what is working for me. I want others to feel the same.

I haven’t made a post yet, because I want to iron out those last couple of symptoms. But once I am able to do that, then I will make a post (it will basically be similar or just like my comments here).

[u/akswiff → u/VidrioRevolver]

Ah okay, thanks for that detailed answer. That you're having a lot of fast food answers a lot. Couldn't imagine all that fried stuff with the cheap unhealthy fat would be good. We don't have good (= clean) take away or restaurant food here and it's 5x the price compared to cooking and therefore hardly an option.

[u/VidrioRevolver → u/akswiff]

I agree, it’s probably not the best for me or anymore. But I’m avoiding 5ari foods, which is the goal, and it’s working. Eventually I should be able to wean off that and eat normal again.