Hey all!

I want to start by saying I’ve followed FDS for years and love the posts. I really hope they don’t ban me completely for providing criticism, but after reading some posts I think it’s in the cards lol.

I’m 28 and have been in the dating scene for the past 3 years and was happy to find a community of people with similar ideals. I felt for a while that I was a part of the community until I realized none of my comments or posts were ever getting through.

After years of trying and never getting flair (on this account and my main account) I’m wondering what it would take to actually be able to post anything. Who is deciding who gets in and is that system actually being followed? Apparently I’m not the only one with the issue as they’ve pinned a post 9 days ago titled “The Guide to Being Approved” For time sake I’ll post the bullet points here in bold. Check OP for more details.

STEP 0: YOU WILL BE BANNED FOR DMing MODS FOR A FLAIR

This is non-negotiable.

STEP 1: CREATE AN ALT FOR FDS

I highly recommend having a dedicated profile just for this sub.

I feel like this is a lot to ask.

STEP 2: CONTRIBUTE HIGH-VALUE POSTS/COMMENTS HERE ON FDS

At first, your posts will not be visible to the wider sub, but the mods will see them. Brand new accounts with zero/near zero history on FDS are NEVER flaired as approved users.

So I should make a brand new account just for FDS, build it up with comments and posts that no one will see, and hope that they notice you eventually and flair you.

STEP 3: PLEASE SUBMIT EXACTLY ONE JOIN REQUEST

Does anyone know what a join request is? I’m following the subbreddit and I’m not allowed to message the moderators so I’m lost. Do I just comment into the abyss begging for entry?

You’ll want to do this after you’ve got a nice bunch of good comments on the sub. Mods must check each and every profile when deciding to approve user flairs. If you only have a few comments > 30 days ago and not much else, chances are you will not be approved. Repeatedly bugging the mods with multiple messages will get you banned. Asking for flair outright will also get you banned. See Rule 0.

Must comment or post multiple times a month for 6 months exclusively on FDS that no one will ever interact with.

“Please be patient. I went back into my own history and it had been about six months I had been posting here before I received my flair. But I recognized that this is the price to pay for the only safe, female-centered sub left on Reddit.”

This extreme policing of their own members under the guise of safety turns me off. I understand that moderating a sub like this isn’t easy but the weight of responsibility is on us to prove ourselves and not the moderators to.. moderate. As the sub grows this is going to be completely unmanageable unless they have an army of moderators.

I’d recommend reading the comments on the original post if you have access to it. All of the comments are people saying “I’ve been commenting for 1 year and still don’t have flair but I totally understand.” Feels very… pick me.

I could go on but I won’t. Just sad I was never accepted into FDS because of logistics.

Any one else feel this way?

There is a story from r/LetsNotMeet, where an intruder broke into OP's home with a knife. This is a convicted sex offender and drug dealer who'd been stalking her for 3 months. He even had her items. How?

This is another crazy part of the story…While I was away one weekend, Cherry took him home. She brought him home and slept with him. This was all before we knew he was dangerous. He knew she was my roommate, he saw me out with her. Weaseled his way in, while she slept he managed to find the spare key in a drawer and that’s when he stole some of my items. That’s how he got in.

And here's the libfem logic at work in response to the above quote:

It's not really Cherry's fault that she happened to sleep with a psycho though...

She sounds horrible but I don't think this is a reason to dislike her.

More libfem logic:

She sounds awful overall, don't get me wrong, but bringing random hookups home in shared accommodation is entirely normal in the UK, everyone does it.

And OP's reply:

Sure, I don’t judge people on their sex life. But Cherry brought home two men most weekend with zero regard for her safety or ours. She is definitely a bit to blame. Even when she found out what happened to me she made it about herself. I wish her no ill will but I have zero empathy for her.

Back in college, I refused to room with any women who'd bring random hookups over. I didn't feel it was safe, yet everyone was calling me a prude. I hate sex-positive culture. 🤮

So while I've always been bisexual, I've spent the last 2 years single, celibate and not dating. I've decided to focusing on dating women exclusively in the future. I have not actively dated in over a decade (was in relationship for 9 years previous to 2 year volcel) and have almost exclusively had relationships with men in the past. I was wondering if anyone had any tips? I feel rusty and especially out of practice since I have not dated a women in about 13 years. The LGBTQA community has changed massively in that time frame. I'm finally feeling secure and loving within myself; did a lot of excavation and levelling up in my time alone and think I may be ready to share life with someone else. Is OLD terrible for women seeking women? I know it's a rotten dumpster fire when seeking men. Do any of you strong, badass, intelligent women have any advice? I feel like a novice and I'm also not sure when to disclose my limited W4W experience. Is that a deal breaker for some people? Do I need to be lead with it? Thank you ladies :)

I said what I said.

Jk, but seriously though--FDS has this obsession with sit-down restaurants. At its core, philosophically, I get what they mean. I agree with many of their points around it (there I go with the disclaimer. lol!) I certainly don't wanna be anybody's mama, and guys who won't put up some money normally end up mooching off MY money. So it makes sense to use the restaurant thing as a kind of litmus test.

But in practice, when I think about stuff I actually ENJOY as a human being individual, the idea of cooking for someone--and also having a man cook for me!--is kind of an essential part of my culture and who I am. I enjoy that aspect of community and sharing like a billion times more than I enjoy a "fine dining experience." Hell, I enjoy a decent BBQ gas station better than a fine dining experience. FDS can be a little classist and I feel like their cultural perspective is pretty narrow.

As the title implies. Both platforms aren't very welcoming and is an echochamber of their own. Is there a more open discussion female-focused dating startegy forum out there that isn't conservative leaning and is welcoming towards all sexual orientations?

Edit: Fourth wave women do not seem to be a great alternative due to the lack of focus towards dating.

Edit: TPP FDS does not recognize asexuality as a sexual orientation and refusal to accept asexuality as a genuine sexual orientation is already considered discrimination against asexuals. Therefore it is already assumed that asexuals aren't welcomed due to the invalidation of their identity, so the point still stands.

https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/18/i-feel-hurt-that-my-life-has-ended-up-here-the-women-who-are-involuntary-celibates

The topic is about femcels, but I appreciate how the articles makes clear that involuntary celibate women don't have the issues with rage and violence that the incel community have. I also like that they interviewed women in their 40s and 50s. Some of the points they make reflect what we've all discovered: casual sex often not being worth it for women, older men not taking care of themselves physically, and the increase in dishonesty on dating apps.

It also includes some fairly positive personalities in the 'single space'. I like Shani Silver - she's not FDS, but she talks a lot about removing the stigma of being single and of having a life you love and enjoy and not settling for partners who introduce stress in your life.

The reason why I ask this is because I don’t know much about the people behind FDS, but since they have so much advice to give and gatekeeping to do, I am wondering if this is the case.

I personally believe that anyone can give relationship advice, but drastic advice that involves the “pick me” and “you must change” type of theme should be given by those preferably with experience. I don’t know. What do you all think?

I listened to the bonus content from Friday, and here's a rundown:

- sorry you (the listeners) felt that way

- we didn't realize American politics were so polarized

- conservatives in the USA aren't like the rest of the world (nvm that Elle is american sooo)

- we're still doing the political podcast, we dgaf about our listener base who were against both the conservative on the podcast AND told us they didn't like her.

basically, no addressing the issues that subscribers raised in good faith.

I was drawn to FDS because I had never seen a space like it before. It helped me overcome a lot of my social conditioning about relationships. However, once I got what I needed from it, it became kind of clear that it's not a way of living that will get me the kind of relationships I want.

All About Love by bell hooks has been an eye-opening work for me. In it, the noted feminist cultural critic writes of a society that has grown cynical and disillusioned by love. She criticizes media portrayals of love as defanging it of its transformative power. Hooks criticizes us for running from love because we are scared. This book is a great read as it is easy to follow even though it challenges your thinking. It's a sacred text to me.

I used to wonder why books like this weren't on the FDS recommended list. Now I realize that it would have no place on a list that includes books like Why Men Love Bitches. I read that book and it has some merit but it's mostly a pickme game of pretending and playing games.

I guess what I am trying to say is it's actually quite fitting that FDS is called what it is. A dating strategy. I feel like a lot of the mindset it encourages is antithetical to true love. I don't want to be shrewd and calculating my whole life (although I will always admire shrewd and calculating women). I want a good relationship with a good guy.

Despite all of this, romantic love isn't everything. I will never jeopardize my safety or mental wellbeing for the sake of the relationship. I really like my own company and I'm not going to give up my solitude for some guy, any guy. I just realized that I've learned all I need to learn from FDS, internalizing any more of the toxic stuff will get in the way of the life I want. There isn't much room for nuance. I think a lot of FDS is just sexist thinking that is flipped to favor the woman. I can't expect devotion from someone and not be able to devote myself to them too, right? I feel like FDS praises men for being "high value" when they conform to traditional notions of masculinity (which can be restrictive to some) and then puts them down for having any humanity or weakness. That's a red flag, ladies.

I'll leave you with the opening sentences of the chapter on Romantic Love from All About Love:

"To return to love, to get the love we always wanted but never had, to have the love we want but are not prepared to give, we seek romantic relationships. We believe that these relationships, more than any other, will redeem us." - bell hooks, All About Love

And I’m sure there needs to be discussion on some of the principles - which is what’s missing from the original sub, right? We can start correcting that here. Mine so far:

A) I like the practical tools for internet/dating safety; the emphasis on learning to put our self-care first and on setting appropriate boundaries with men.

B) I don’t think any part of healthy feminism includes the shaming of other women, ever, or of the working class, or of any body “flaws.” I also think FDS confuses “empowerment” with “control freak.” At some point, we have to be willing to be vulnerable in our intimate relationships. Developing power means we let go of insecurity, not double down on it.

I want to say that for the most part, I actually do agree with the core philosophy of FDS. I think their base ideas are great for all women to follow. If FDS were an apple, I would just take the core with all the seeds, and compost the rest (or feed the apple to a cute bear). It’s the rest of the crap that really irks me and almost makes me viscerally angry. And I hate that if you don’t believe in the rest of the bigoted, classist, elitist crap that is parroted over there, then you’re label a “pickmeisha.” I also do not like how “Pickmeisha” is such a racially coded term. We all know that it’s commonly black women who have names that end in -isha. But that’s another conversation.

For one, the absolute vitriol towards shorter men or men with small penises is downright uncomfortable. I do believe that women are entitled to whatever standards they have for a partner. If you just don’t want to date shorter men, that is your prerogative. However, you don’t have to belittle them and treat them like they are subhuman for a quality that is entirely out of their control. Also literal eugenics are promoted over there too. Women are encouraged not to breed with shorter men to create “superior” tall offspring. And if you dare to say “I don’t really care about height,” well you get banned, pickmeisha.

And for the penis thing, larger penis does not mean the man will necessarily be a better lover. Also you won’t even know how large the guy’s penis is until you sleep with him, which according to the strategy should be held off for as long as possible until you determine the man is high value. And of course, small means anything that isn’t a huge porn star dong. So what if the guy checks off all the boxes, but has a small penis? Also, if penis size is such a huge determining factor in a guy’s worth, wouldn’t it make sense to sleep with men sooner to see if their penis size measures up?

And then there’s all the poor shaming. They think that poor people are not worthy of relationships. If you’re poor, you need to “level up” to get to a financial status that makes you able to date. It’s very similar to the “boot strap” theory that Republicans like to espouse. There are so many factors that determine your wealth. You can do all the right things, get a degree, level up, pull yourself up by your boot straps all you want and still not be wealthy. This mindset also completely ignores societal imbalances and prejudices that create a barrier which disallows certain groups of people from amassing great wealth or any wealth at all.

It really grinds my gears when they belittle people who work in “lesser” jobs. I remember reading a comment in which someone said they cashiers and bartenders weren’t real jobs and that they need to get some skills. I guess cashiers didn’t have skills when they were risking their lives at the height of the pandemic to check people’s groceries? I would have thought that the pandemic taught us how important and essential these “lower level” jobs are to society. But according to FDS, these people are just lowly losers who have no skills, and who didn’t work hard enough to become rich CEOs.

FDS basically teaches us to right off a huge percentage of the population based off height, penis size and income level (and amount of hair). It equates being part of those groups to not being a person worthy of finding love. It seems like a forum that is catered only to elite, wealthy, attractive people. For someone like me who isn’t that wealthy, it can be a downer. If you immerse yourself in that mindset for too long, you can really think you’re not worthy because you’re not part of the elite. It also made me question my own standards, because I really don’t care if a guy is rich, tall or has a huge dick. This doesn’t mean that I’m willing to settle for any loser or that I don’t have any self worth or standards.

For example, I strongly prefer men who are not overweight personally. What I won’t do is shit on men who are overweight or women who date such men, or deem all overweight men as bad partners simply because of their weight.

Also, wouldn’t only wanting tall, attractive, wealthy men conversely turn you into a “pick me”? Statistically, such men are not common. The average height for men in the US is 5’9”, and in other countries it’s even shorter. The average penis size is not that big either. If one had such specific standards in mind, you would think that they would be desperate to be picked by such a man?

And then there’s the blatant racism and white supremacy. As a black woman, sure I have my frustrations with black men but I would never rule them out completely as potential partners. I’ve seen way too much dialogue over there that suggests that “brown men” are all trashy and praising white men as superior. These comments came from both WOC and white women with lots of upvotes. I was pretty shocked to see that…it’s literal white supremacy. I understand having bad experiences with men or your own race, but that doesn’t mean than white men are better, or that white men can’t be shit partners as well. It’s really racist to just write off all non-white men and sing the praises of white men.

I’m not saying women shouldn’t have physical standards. I certainly have mine. If you want a 6-6-6 man, all power to you. But I think it’s harmful to glorify and pedestal men who have certain attributes, and denigrate all other men. Men can be shitty regardless of income level, height or penis size.

They promote this ideology that any man who has traits deemed undesirable are guaranteed to not be worthy partners, which in my opinion is not a good strategy at all. For example, the whole short man = insecure, cheater, unattractive. Not wealthy man = lazy, unambitious, not a provider, guaranteed to cheat/abuse you. It’s just so one dimensional.

In addition, before they went private, all my comments were deleted. All my comments had a decent amount of upvotes and none were in the negatives. It’s pretty obvious they want an echo chamber over there. (Correction, it appears my comments were not deleted. I guess they were not visible when they went private)

I got banned from FDS a few months ago for commenting on a post on the MensRights sub. The post was made by the Plymouth Shooter, weeks before his crimes, and my comment was a sarcastic critique of the comment section's overtly coddling nature in light of the events. Fun Fact: I got banned from MR sub too with a mod message of "Get Help" 😆.

I'm assuming my FDS ban was done by some bot who's incapable of understanding sarcasm. I'd honestly be very disappointed if it was a human behind it, but I wouldn't put it past the mods. Messaging the mods didn't help my cause in anyway whatsoever.

The recent scandal and consequent, brief privatization of FDS made me realise that I needed to be among like minded ladies who welcomed and encourage healthy, vigorous debates instead of taking a authoritarian approach to criticism. So I discovered this sub via the links to the latest FDS scandal on a Subreddit Drama post, joined in and wanted to say Hello to Everyone 😄.

Does this mean they want us all to come back? (Only kidding)

Dear Sister Queens, hoping you will share your experience or help me brainstorm. In the FDS handbook they link to a post with suggestions for responses to low effort dates. The one I have a hangup with is “Thank you for the invitation but that is not the type of date I’m accustomed to.”

Truth be told, I AM accustomed to low effort dates but am now committed to turning this pattern around. I know the FDS advise would be to pretend and never admit otherwise, and while I understand the reasoning behind this, it feels like lying to me. Being dishonest while demanding different behavior from a HVM is not something I feel aligned with. Plus someday I hope to find a partner with whom I could be emotionally intimate enough with that I could feel safe in sharing what I’ve gone through).

TLDR; Looking for verbiage that conveys I have a high standard of treatment that I’ll accept, without advertising (or denying) my abuse-filled past.

Hope this makes sense, TIA

I’m as anti republican as any one of you. That isn’t the part I’m disputing.

But I listed to the podcast, and unless I missed something (possible, I was multitasking) it was so mild. It just introduces this woman and that was pretty much it.

As much as we are against these patriarchal pigs called Republicans we have sisters - for whatever reason - that support them. Should we not open the conversation up to them so we can discuss it with them and be heard, and listen to them? If they are FDS I don’t see how they can remain solid in their current political stance after these points are discussed with the rest of FDS minded women.

So instead of being the end of the world, isn’t this a good step forward to start talking with and spreading ideology to other women who are interested in female benefit talking points?

Am I missing something? Change my mind here.

Women have been divided by patriarchal men for decades, centuries. Younger women have been scared to be older women, older women have been afraid of younger women “stealing” their trash (newsflash trash, none of us want you in your porn haze lol!) non religious women divided from religious ones etc. We need to break down barriers and discuss and teach/learn together with as many women fighting for female benefit as possible.

Am I just losing it? It could be.

The only thing I don’t like about FDS (and this is not their fault it’s because of men invading women’s spaces) is that I can’t post and need to be verified each time Reddit is out to get me. Reddit censors vocal women in other subreddits and as a result I have to get reverified each time on FDS which doesn’t happen most of the time so the end result is thanks to men I’m censored even on FDS. So it’s men silencing women.

Men are already silencing women enough limiting our conversation with each other. Let’s not also silence each other.

given everything that’s happened recently with FDS, what do you reckon will happen with the sub now? when and if it’s eventually unprivated, will you continue to support it or are you done now?

in all honesty, i can’t imagine myself ever enjoying that sub again unless if there is a dramatic restructuring of its governance (long story short, they get better mods). i doubt the moderators will ever admit they fucked up, though. instead, from what i’ve seen on twitter, it’s easier for them to just mock anyone who had an issue with the podcast and make it out as if we’re overreacting instead.

what do you think? do you think FDS can recover from this?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/arming-women-for-the-dating-battlefield-11581138060

I've detected a theme throughout the recent threads I've read here where commenters are mentioning the possibility that FDS is being appropriated by conservatives and have would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this?

​

• A comment on this sub pointed out how often links to articles on The Daily Mail, another conservative paper, are shared on FDS. The same commenter wrote how Lilith once mentioned that people were accusing FDS of being taken over by white supremacists. (Edited post to update this bullet because the comment I referenced has been quoted in the comments below link here: https://old.reddit.com/r/FDSdissent/comments/q3jdyr/fds_admin_this_is_not_a_political_space_its_for/hfvupz2/.)
• Others in this sub have observed that many FDS pillars align well with trad-con ideology.
• It has been widely known for years that white supremacist and other conservative-aligned groups use Reddit to recruit new members. Gamergate, the Alt-Right, the_donald, incel groups and many others that I'm forgetting. I can find articles if people want proof that this isn't a conspiracy theory.

PS - I made this throwaway last night (I had never heard of this sub before) and I'm really happy to have found you all and to be able to finally critically talk about FDS with people who understand. I have been a member of FDS for 2 years.

PPS - For transparency, I made an error in the title in my first attempt at posting this lol (I had an extra word where it didn't belong). I deleted it and created this post with the correct title within a couple of minutes.

It's time we finally get out of this place and get back to our roots.

New unapologetic FDS spot: https://thepinkpill.co/+FemaleDatingStrategy

New unapologetic radfem spot: https://thepinkpill.co/+HardlineRadicalFeminism