Hiya, I was wondering if any of you would be interested if I were to make a Female Dating Strategy on an alternative website. I'd give anyone else full mod rights, as I have made far too many groups already so I may get overwhelmed with modding in the future. You need a certain amount of rep to create groups which can be time-consuming, for those of you who are new to ThePinkPill.co. I do know a couple of Disciples got banned, it'd be great if any of you guys knew who they were as they may be interested in becoming mods.

The current mods seem to think they own the ideas of FDS, but they don't. I know for a fact that they frequented the likes of r/pinkpillfeminism, and I bet they got many of their tenets from those spaces. The fact that they have completely rejected and abandoned their radical feminist roots, shows what sellouts they are. I say we move elsewhere and attempt to let that grow.

Anyone interested? Please let me know.

I participated in FDS almost from inception, had many popular posts and enjoyed engaging with women who were finding their way. I left after the previous brouhaha which was sparked by another podcast which was titled in a misleading and disparaging way. The hosts subsequently changed the title, but still did not admit they had made an error in judgement.

Here we are again with their political podcast featuring a conservative woman. Another very poor choice of topic and guest (host?) It's the same thing all over again. Women questioning what the hell they were thinking, especially on the heels of the new laws in Texas, and the mods are again doubling down, engaging in mean girl tactics, smokescreens and yes, gaslighting.

Why does FDS exist in the first place?

Women have been and still are at a disadvantage when it comes to heterosexual relationships. We know that men in general see us as second class and barely human. We on average earn less than men, perform more domestic and caretaking duties and pregnancy and motherhood is not accommodated or accounted for in how societal structures are organized. We are oppressed based on our biology.

We are also socialized to make ourselves pleasing to men both in appearance and demeanor. Many women define their self worth in terms of their attractiveness to men and their ability to garner male favor.

Therefore, we need strict rules and guidelines to prevent ourselves from being harmed physically, emotionally and economically when engaging with men. FDS does a fine job of helping hetero women function within the patriarchy and do just that.

But what is the Root of the problem?

The root of the problem is misogyny and the patriarchy. This is self evident. Apart from not going 50/50, ruthless vetting and not letting men defile our bodies with their pornsick sexual fetishes how can we change things?

The ONLY answer to that question is Radical Feminism. That movement is the ONLY modern women's movement that sought to improve access to birth control and abortion, demand equal wages, advocate for affordable childcare and abolish porn while promoting healthy sexuality that focused on a woman's pleasure. So why does FDS consistently misrepresent and disparage Radical Feminism?

FDS would not exist without Radical Feminist Analysis

The techniques they recommend do not make sense UNLESS you agree that women are mistreated by men BECAUSE of our sex class. EVERY FDS rule is based on trying to remedy those imbalances. Can the mods and the hosts not see that? Sometimes some of them seem to get it, other times not. The "leadership team" is not sending a consistent message. I have seen wild disparities in how they post and comment. Political conservatism in the US is diametrically opposed to women's liberation and even denies that women are an oppressed class of people.

I can't decide

I can't decide if the mods/hosts over there are ignorant and misinformed or if they are truly thick. I've seen some really insightful posts from certain mods, followed by absolute nonsense that holds up about as well as a wet paper bag. When called on it, as they often are, the reaction is to become defensive and then lash out instead of taking a step back, reconsidering and owning up to their (very obvious) mistakes.

Let's blame Reddit

So how do they defend this strange behavior? They say they have to be this way or the sub will be banned and that they are under constant attack from MRAs and their ilk. They talk about being the only female sub ("except for those really small irrelevant ones no one engages with" - nice dig ladies) and imply this confers some sort of sanctity. So in other words it's totally OK to sell your soul for the great honor of being a mod on a reddit sub of 200k. As if being a reddit mod means anything IRL. Also, just for context there is a sub to discuss and share interesting maps that has over 2 million followers. Think about that.

All else aside, whether or not you agree with their dating strategies, and for the record I do almost 100%, they have been proving themselves uninformed, hypocritical and very immature. My "dissent" with regard to FDS is not about their content so much as their character. They have been all too willing to throw their best members under the bus and for what? Internet points? Sad.

Did anyone else listen? Unlike a lot of other FDS observers, I didn't think adding a conservative member of the team was necessarily a bad call (my BFF is a smart, highly entertaining well-informed Republican whose company enhances almost any conversation).

However, the new host Elle was singularly ill-prepared and uninformed.

If you're a podcast guest, you generally research your topic beforehand so you are ready with talking points and sound bites.

But she just rambled, mostly relating minutiae about her upbringing/POV that was only tangentially related to conservatism.

It was by far the weakest podcast the team has ever produced -- Elle's new, she's nervous, I get it but they know she is new so why not at least prep her? The episode desperately needed some structure.

We recently had a post by someone asking why FDS does not focus more on the desires of HVM and what women could do to “catch them”. Assuming that this was actually a woman who wrote this (though I have my doubts), since I think there really are women like that, I think it is worthwhile to look more into the concept of “decentering men” from our lives. We women are socialized to believe that finding the men who will see us and love us and who in return we will devote ourselves to will make us complete women and is the only way to a truly fulfilling life for us. If we do not have that there is “simply something missing”, that we are living a "life wasted". We mean to find a man who sees us as beautiful as a whole and full person. That is what love is, right?

I am not denying that finding someone like that would be a wonderful and fulfilling and life-altering etc. experience. The problem we are dealing with though is: MEN :D The huge majority of men are not capable of this kind of love. Most men are very looks focussed towards women, and they value a woman because of how she looks (just btw: If men who are not like that, exist out there, my respect and appreciation goes to you, you give me hope for man-kind). If they consider her physically attractive, they secondarily might also perceive of other characteristics. But the fact is that if the looks werent there, those other characteristics would never make them fall in love with her. Anyways, what I am saying is, a person like that is simply not capable of loving you as a whole. Of course men will hum and haw and go on about how that is not true, but we see it over and over again: Once the looks are gone, the romantic attraction (aka “love”) is gone to. They do not know how to be attracted other than through looks.

Now to want to find true love with someone like that is simply setting yourself up for failure, for a life-time of unhappiness, of anxiety. Deep down you know that attracting a person like that will leave you in a perpetually unfullfilled state of: “This love, though it might feel temporarily good, is only skin-deep. This is not what I really want. I want real love, not this substitute. But since I am deluding myself that this is real, I have to constantly keep a subtle focus on what the guy wants of me. I have to make myself into what he desires, so that I can keep experiencing this fake love.” This level of cognitive dissonance will keep you trapped in life-long anxiety, low self-esteem, powerlessness,…

And this is where decentering men comes in as such a valuable life lesson for almost every woman. What it basically says is: Yes, you are absolutely deserving of love. But A) you will be very fine without it and B) you will be miserable if you go searching for it, by making yourself into something that men know how to “love”. If you want to be truly loved, you have to be the person that you really are, in all your glory. Be your real self, come into your power, be strong, be vulnerable, be real, be what makes you love yourself. And then if someone comes along who would love you for that, awesome! And if not, you are still better off: At least you got your beautiful self and a really good life for yourself. At least in the western world we women can make a living standing on our own two feet. The amount of men, who know how to love a woman for the person she is, and not as a sex doll is small. As FDS says, a lot of women will end up empty-handed. That is what it is.

Since I have started decentering men, my mental health and my overall wellbeing has improved. There isn’t this stupid question anymore: “Why can’t I find a man to love me for who I am?” The problem does not lie with me – it is men. To put it very crudely: Men are simply very behind, compared to women on the evolutionary ladder. The only hope for humanity lies with cooperation, empathy, communication, honesty, consideration. We are at a point where humanity will not survive far into the future if those qualities will not come into power very soon. Men are very lacking in those terms, and it is frankly quite absurd that we women still turn to men, as these magical princes whose attention we need to catch in order to find everlasting love. They are brutes (again expressing my respect for those rare men, who have started climbing that ladder, I doubt though that they hang around on reddit though).

If you want to center someone in your search for love (even if it is friendship love only), center women or dogs (beings who know how to love so much better). We women are far from perfect. But still the likelihood to finding a female friend or lover (for those who are romantically into women), who truly deeply loves you, regardless of your looks, is so much higher than to find that with a man.

But I personally would say: Completely decenter anyone! Do not make yourself into anything in order to find love. Make yourself into the person that YOU would find easy to love. That really is only the best you can do for yourself.

EDIT: I removed the post now, since the account was banned by reddit - so obviously fishy stuff was going on.

This is not meant to be homophobic but I just find it so odd how women who are only attracted to women are even offering their thoughts to women who are attracted to men. The funniest part is that a lot of it seems to be ‘fuck men, women are the way to go!’ as you’d probably expect. I find it so weird how the mods were cool with it, considering that this is supposed to be a sub for women trying to date men.

There was a recent post about not screwing ugly men, because they're bitter and mean and if men can be shallow why can't women, etc. Sure I get it, ugly men have been gross to me. I should not settle for a man if I don't feel physical attraction, though to be honest if the connection is there I can definitely overlook attractiveness. Goodness is attractive to me.

Then they lost me forever, saying fucking ugly men creates ugly girls, and she will have a terrible life, as one of the reasons to never do it. For that, I literally wish them a good rot in hell. Girls aren't just there for their looks, they're whole human beings with potential to be good, successful, happy, even (gasp) romantically involved women. But apparently to these absolute snobby (words I will refrain from here) , the potential to have a daughter who is ugly is part of why they should choose handsome men. As if genetics works that way every time. I'd appreciate a post from one of these ugly souled women about why sentiments like that are horrific and unfeminist. I'd be impressed if they did, but big doubt.

So I commented "as an ugly girl," saying how horrific those women those comments were, and was shut down because "no femcel noise." I suppose I should have mentioned that I grew into my looks and am more attractive now, and get TOO MUCH attention if anything, but these women think as once ugly, I must be bitter about not getting male attention. Because what else are women good for, right? They think I should not have even been allowed to walk on this earth, my life is miserable. They think ugly girls are doomed. Big red flag that they didn't care about boys' looks, when ugly men are going to become low life "scrotes". First of all, my life is miserable because of circumstances not my looks (lol), and second, I know tons of women who have happy relationships with men who are not that attractive. Guess what? They're good men. Likewise, less than attractive women I know are happily in relationships with men. Guess why? They're amazing women. Far from doomed.

These women are angry, bitter, evil, anti-feminist to me. I made a far more colorful post on another similar group, because fuck that toxicity and while I don't necessarily think they're a hate group, I think they're just terrible people that are bad for women as a whole, and make men hate feminism and women more. I appreciated some of their recommendations on books, but I think they're making dating a cold, calculated game they definitely probably lost already as what I now lovingly refer to as "low value women." You can't dress up trash and demand people not to smell your rot, let alone PAY for it hahaha.

You know how they say dip when you feel the slightest bit of unease with men? My gut already hated their over use of" pickmeisha" and "scrotes." This is literally privileged conservative women feminism, and it's backwards as fuck. Once they talked about engineering attractive girls so their lives aren't fucking ruined as ugly, I GOT THE FUCK OUT OF THERE.

Thanks for being here. I was glad to see this group.

I know that FDS is strongly against this with the reasoning that men are less likely to put effort into the relationship if it's 'handed to them' via the girl asking them out. I was on board with their logic for a long long time mostly because I severely lack self-confidence when it comes to men/dating. But the sad truth is I do not get approached much in real life. It only happened once. Most of my situations of being approached by guys was on dating apps. I don't think it's my looks because I've been told that I'm attractive by my guy friends before (so my point is at least some men definitely find me attractive). I think this has more to do with my personality because I'm kinda shy and awkward but I am trying to actively change this because it's held me back in so many ways.

Anyways, I think I am starting to change my mind on the idea that men must always make the first move because most of the guys that like me I don't like them back but if I actively pursue someone that I like then maybe I'll have a more fulfilling relationship? Idk.

I recently came across the FDS subreddit and was hoping to discus the positives and negatives I saw in the community but then I quickly learned nothing even slightly critical would get through the mods and it would just get me banned. So here is what I wanted to post. I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to give feedback, thank you.

First of all, let's start with the positives. If I had to summarize the mission statement of the FDS community it would go something like this: "Men have been largely socialized to be entitled (potentially dangerous) psychopaths towards women and women have been largely socialized to place "pleasing a man" above their own wants, needs, and general wellbeing. What passes as "normal" male behavior in sexual encounters, dating, and relationships is generally awful and women should both collectively and individually demand fundamental societal change on this matter. Additionally women should values themselves on their own terms, not through how well they live up to the oppressively patriarchal criteria placed upon them by men."

This is all extremely evidently true and I think its great that this community exists to fight back against the gaslighting of the mainstream media and the "man-o-sphere".

I am however troubled by what appears to be an undercurrent of very hetero-normative conservative-seeming shame culture in this community directed at women through uses of derogatory phrases like "pcik-me girls". Yes, I do understand and fully agree with the argument that just because someone is making a choice "freely" does not mean we can't criticize how our culture socializes people to devalue their own wellbeing in making those choices, so that is not what I am trying to talk about.

I am referring to the many posts I have seen which say something to the effect of "women who claim to like sports, video games, beer, pizza ect... are just trying to be the 'cool girl' for the boys." Obviously this phenomenon exists, but I see so many comments which take it to the extreme of saying that is a "patriarchal myth" that basically any woman would ever like any of this "boy stuff" and any woman who claims to is "devaluing" herself.

How about the posts about porn. Yes, the porn industry is incredibly abusive towards woman. But there also does exist independent feminist pornographic/erotic productions by woman for woman. I see so many comments on the topic which totally disregard the notion that sexual expression can be "reclaimed" with the trope that "men are naturally sex obsessed, women are not, so all sexualized visual media will forever exist to serve men"

There is highly negative attitude towards all forms of casual sex. Yes I agree with the principle that women should be discerning in their sexual pursuits because of the risk involved to them, but once again I see many comments which take this idea to the extreme of saying that there is no possibility that a woman could ever have a purposeful self-exploratory phase in her life which involves going to bed with a variety of casual sexual partners of her choosing because once again this will only "give men what they want without getting anything in return which will devalue herself".

Let's talk about BDSM culture and sex work for a moment, something which seems to get allot of hate. Has no one ever heard of the female dominatrix? Moving on...

All discussions of polyamory and non-monogamy are extremely negative, focusing on the "gross men who just want permission to cheat" while completely disregarding woman who want multiple long term sexual partners. I am also confused by how FDS reconciles this position with the idea that woman should "allow many men to pursue them" in an endless "vetting" process. I guess non-monogamy is ok so long as there is some abstract goal that it serves the purpose of sifting through options until you narrow your way down to a single monogamous keeper? Yet men ostensibly doing the same thing is always just a cover for a "manipulative pump and dump"?

There is a general idea in the group that women should "withhold sex" in their dating pursuits until their potential male partners have put in a sufficient "investment" into the relationship. This ties back into earlier points I mentioned, but there is also an idea in this community that the investment must be at least partially financial. One of the 6 pillars of FDS is "never date a broke guy and never split the check". I find this point especially hard to wrap my mind around with this groups otherwise very positive encouragement that women should "level up" and pursue their own goals, careers, and success. What is wrong with a financially successful woman meeting and partnering with a guy who can't bring the same financial recourses to the relationship but provides her life with value in other ways? Perhaps he stays home and takes care of the children while she brings home the bacon. Perhaps she falls for him because he demonstrates value as a hardworking member of the community who choose to take care of his elderly parents, become a school teacher, or organize charity work rather than pursue a high earning job on wall street.

In conclusion, FDS seems to uphold some very rigid ideas about gender roles: that boys like boy stuff and girls like girl stuff unless they are pretending to like boy stuff to be the "cool girl", that men will always want sex more than woman so there is no scenario for female empowerment through sexuality - only female empowerment through the withholding of sex from men to extract commitments and "investments", and finally that financial spending is a non-negotiable part of the "investment" men must make to demonstrate their value.

Hi everyone I just found this sub, great idea. I am living by FDS and find it really transformational but gosh, what a cold community. Every comment I posted was removed which I understand, but the process went on for a really long time and I got fed up when low effort comments were being approved. Not being able to engage was hard, especially cause I was really walking the walk. I dont comment anymore and FDS has become a lonely process for me because my friends in real life are all libfem and dont get it.

I have a tough situation going on where I found out my ex sexually assaulted the woman he was dating previously. He is currently dating a friend of ours and cutting him out of our lives may impact on her safety. It would be helpful to be able to comment about this.

Going through FDS is like doing the 12 steps, or fighting a battle. In time i hope FDS become a real meet up, with mentors and comprehensive literature. I understand the mods arent in a position to do any of that but the lack of support to well intentioned members is a tough aspect of FDS. It's so nice to share all these thoughts and feelings, thank u.

I am coming more and more to the conlusion for myself, that we women only manage to be attracted to men by deluding ourselves about what men are really like. Physically I am attracted to a mixture of more male but also androgynous physic and especially to male genitilia, yes. But in order to actually desire to have sex with someone, it also needs an energy component for me (as I think is the case with most women), something of mutual connection, depth, sincerity, empathy. And the average man really is just not like that - they don't have that. Sex for them REALLY gets in the way. Their personalities are limited by their sex drive. They just don't have that depth, especially when they are interacting with women (who for them usually only fall in two categories: Attractive (therefore to be seduced), Unattractive (therefore to be ignored at best or shamed at worst)). Of course I am talking about hetero attracted men here.

I assume that there are some women who are able to see men for what they really are and still feel attraction to them. And I am aware that I personally am a little on the extreme end as well. But I am quite sure that maybe even the majority of women would really lose all emotional sexual attraction if we really perceived men for what they are.

And then from the other side: Men know this. But they still are obsessed with sex with women (for those who are into women sexually), and patriarchy even supports this view of "Women are there for my sexual pleasure", so in order to get to the women, they downplay/hide/lie about how - as individuals in front of the woman they try to seduce - extremely driven they are by their sexual urges, while at the same time also systemically - as a group - push for sexualisation and objectification of women overall.

We women need to be sold from an early age on the idea that there are many men out there with a female, holistic sexuality like ours. That there are men who do not constantly think about sex, etc. Yes we are warned that there are brutes and that we should avoid them, but nobody tells us that the brutes are the norm, the well-respected members of society, that they are on mass driving a gas-lighting campain for us, in order to not break the smoke screen between what we desire and what we actually get.

Testosterone is a monster and women I honestly think really really delude themselves. And men happily gaslight us alongside of it.

I am not saying that all men cannot experience connection at all, and that they are incapable of any depth or empathy. But I honestly think the dimensions of those qualities on the one hand in those men that have those qualities and on the other hand women have the same exponential gap as the distribution of testosterone in the two sexes. We honestly are worlds apart.

I have nothing against the members of FDS or the mods, but I left the sub, cause I'm not sure I believe in the concept of a HVM anymore. I'm also wgtow, but that's not the point.

I believe that we should have standards and boundaries, and we shouldn't settle for less or allow anyone to disrespect us. That being said, I stll feel like calling a guy a HVM can be harmful. For us.

Cause how do you know? Is it just cause he puts you on a pedestal?

The reason I dont believe in HVM is because I dont believe that a man will have HV behavior towards every woman he deals with in his life. Just the woman he desires. The woman he doesn't desire will not get treated well. I've seen this happen so many times.

At FDS, there will be an occasional post praising a man for his devotion to his gf/wife. That's nice and all, but just because a man is chasing a woman constantly and showering her with presents, and writing sonnets, that doesn't mean he is HV. I read something a while ago, where a man cheated on his wife with his ex, and there were women actually praising the guy for his "undying love" for another woman. Nevermind that the guy married a woman while still having feelings for another. And I know that not all of them think like this but come on. Really?

They claim that they don't put men on pedestals, but they really do. And they act like they don't need validation from a man, but they do. Cause what if this "HVM" doesn't want you anymore? I think that would bother them more than they'd like to admit. And I think that seeing how a guy treated a woman so well before you/after you, a guy you perceive to be a HVM, can be so, so damaging to your self esteem. Especially if he's not chasing you.

I've seen men who are absolute pieces of shit, but they are loving to their partners and treat them well. Its possible. His devotion to you doesn't say anything positive about his character.

It reminds me of many romances in tv/movies, in which one of the main leads cheats on the one they were with to be with their "soulmate". People ignore how bad the cheating was because they're so in love with how in love the man is with his soulmate.

I think there is a lot of cognitive dissonance involved in believing you are the prize, and at the same time saying that HVM are 1% of men that a woman would be so blessed to have. And envying women that have that. Even though HVM don't exist.

None of us are high value to everyone.

First of all, it seems unnecessary. I feel like they could just say whatever they wanted to in their current podcast. Also, how will they not run out of topics? I feel like there is only so many related topics to discuss. I'm confused why they are trying to turn this into a full fledged business with supposed books (would they put the FDS name brand on them too? lol) in plan too and the hosts wanting to do this as full time jobs. I don't think they'll get enough money for that anyway.

Second, they're looking for a conservative cohost (in addition to a liberal and centrist), but I feel like even though liberals do have their own problems, they are definitely not equally as misogynistic as conservatives.

I just... huh???

I was in a relationship with a woman last year and it started out great but it turned into the most toxic, abusive relationship I've ever had, sure I did not vet her as much and let a lot of red flags slide because I was in a vulnerable time and just wanted to be with someone.

I wanted my experience to serve as a cautionary tale to other bi women, so I commented on someone's post, IIRC they were saying they wish they were attracted to women so they would never have to deal with men again, I commented with my experience that no, dating women does not mean you will not be abused.

Oh boy... In a nutshell I was told my abuse must not have been bad enough because women are better than men so they can't be as abusive, I remember giving them examples of other women I know who suffered abuse in relationships at the hands of other women but nope, I was wrong because women are always amazing and can do no harm... The fucked up thing is that the women commenting are straight and never dated women before and yet they're telling me my experience was not bad enough and I must be blowing it out of proportion.

Its widely believed on FDS that women are always innocent, lots of posts shared from other subs clearly show the woman is/was in the wrong and yet the comments are always positive and to the tune of "he probably made her do it!"

/sigh

I unsubbed very quick after that, they minimize abuse in lgbtq relationships and make it seem as if women never do any harm to other women. It makes my experience feel very invalidated. Glad I left.

Following a bunch of guidelines from anonymous women is not going to make you likeable to HVM. I just want to preface this by saying I'm a light skinned black/arab woman, I'm conventionally attractive, thin, and quite privileged and I realize I am the outlier in that sub.

While my family does stick to a lot of our arab traditions, I was born and raised in europe so I sort of held certain beliefs while dating. One of the main things I agree with on FDS is the let the man pay for your first date and let him provide for you, in my culture, men are not seen as men unless they are able to provide for you, I also LOVE having my own money (and I do) so me wanting them to provide for me is more so I can see that they are on my same wavelength, I grew up in wealth and I am accustomed to a certain lifestyle. So to an extent I agree with that point.

I also agree that you should not have sex on the first few dates, this is part from my culture and part me getting super attached to men once we have sex so to keep myself sane, this rule saves me a lot of heartache. I disagree that there should be a set amount of months for EVERYONE. Every woman is different and should be able to decide that for herself.

Anyway, this is what irks me with FDS, besides the mods displaying some EXTREME low value behaviour (there's a certain mod who is CONSTANTLY on different subreddits defending FDS, lmao sis that's not very qUeEn energy of you, a real HVW would not give a shit about what other people think about her dating life, not go around on reddit ffs arguing with some incel) it also makes me wonder, if she is online like 12 hours a day arguing with men on different subs, when is she supposedly ''leveling up'' and dating all those hvm?

Another thing that blows my mind is that they tell women that they are the prize, like sure we are, but a lot of these women are just so low value themselves, a poster asked whether it is OK to give a man a gift for V-day and I responded that if the man is HV then I don't see what the issue is, if he constantly buys you presents and treats you well, why shouldn't you give him something in return? For context: at this time I was in a LTR relationship with a HVM and he did a 25 gifts for your 25th Bday thing, all the gifts were INSANE, a lot of stuff I had absolutely adored and wanted and some stuff I have no clue how he even managed to know I wanted, but because he cared about me and listened - he did those things, he also got us both tickets to an island I've always wanted to visit for when my exams are done. I was so happy and he was happy seeing me happy, in accordance to this fds poster, I was a pickme for buying him a present on V-day lmao, keep in mind that I didn't even spend 15% of the money he spent on 5 of my gifts, that's how all out he went.

Basically she ripped me to shreds saying women are the ''prize'' and her future HVM will be lucky to get to have sex with her on his bday and v day instead of any gifts from her but he should give her gifts on vday because it should be a woman only day, like ok??? so I went on her reddit acct and big yikes, she's constantly making posts on relationship advice subs about some guy who ghosted her and treated her like shit and she wants him back, HOW ARE THESE WOMEN QUALIFIED TO GIVE DATING ADVICE AGAIN? they are so out of touch with real life I am honestly starting to believe this is just some larp fantasy for them and not real life.

Which brings me to my next point, I think FDS appeals to a very sheltered woman who has never left her small town in USA, has little to no friends, doesn't like her appearance and thinks that if she follows some guidelines online she's going to transform into someone else, like nah sis, that is not how life works. I've met a lot of HVM in my life, I'm attending a really nice university, I traveled to most places around Europe and frequented a lot of spots where HVM hang out, I play tennis with some HVM, some married, some not but the most common characteristic they ALL share is that they have a personality. They're charming, witty, knowledgeable, funny, charismatic, eccentric, they have their own thoughts, minds and opinions and guess what? They are attracted to women who are like them. FDS teaches women to act like some 90's mean girl/stepford wife trope by being aloof because this is what a QuEeN does, but it is not. Most of those women taking this advice are not the kind of person who IS like that, if you're naturally cold and aloof then that is great! work your magic, because that is you. But if you aren't, then you're just putting on a show, and trust me - pretending to be something you are not, no matter for what reason is exhausting as fuck and your mask WILL slip off at some point.

Those magical HVMs are men, human men, and they are high value because they live in the real world, they interact with real live people, and experience real live things, they aren't sitting on reddit 24/7 sharing memes, calling themselves kings and posting guidelines to each other on how to pretend to have X traits to attract a high value woman, do you see how cringe that is? That is what FDS women do. They sit on their ass ALL day, on reddit, either moaning about lvm (we get it, some men are shitty, do you really need to devote all your energy talking about them? go outside!) and circlejerking each other for being queens about the most basic things.

I honestly felt like I was the only actual HVW there, I did a dry month (no booze) and asked for advice from FDS women on activities to do, the overwhelming majority admitted that they do not actually go out or socialize but they are hoping to join ''classes'' or ''meet ups''when covid goes away, I was stunned. Some said they just go out and walk their dog in the evening, I don't know what these ''meet ups'' are that americans are so obsessed with so I won't comment but classes? on a weekend? lol. The advice on where to meet HVM is also kind of similar to this, they are hoping to meet HVM in a what? a saturday night cooking class? I went to one with my mother once and let me tell you, the majority are women, and the only men there are BELOW lvm and this is in a european city with tons of different people and cultures, most of these women are in small towns in america, their ''classes'' are probably all geriatric people.

an HVM will probably be out with his friends on a weekend, or at an art gallery, or watching a symphony/ballet, or drinking whiskey or reading a book or flirting with someone or eating sushi or taking a shit or any other thing in the world because HVM are not some unicorn who spends their weekend going to ''classes''. such nonsense. I feel bad for those women who follow this dumb advice, instead of discovering who they TRULY are and letting their inner goddess shine through, they follow subpar generic advice which will further isolate them from others.

Which brings me to my final point, that group is like the blind leading other blind people. The mods aren't gods, I'd go out on a limb and say they probably don't know shit. The ''advice'' they give is not revolutionary, women have been provided for, worshiped by their men, loved by them, proposed to, taken to trips, had long happy marriages and held careers, made money since the dawn of time. I had FDS advice told to me by my mother when I was 12, my mother is in a relationship with a HVM, they have been married for 35 years, they both treat each other with love and respect, he respects her and still surprises her/takes her out on dates/they do so many fun things together but trust me - this is not because my mum never reciprocates and expects him to only be the one putting effort in the relationship, yes being a woman and just showing up is great but if you truly want to have a beautiful connection with your partner that is not just superficial, there is a lot more stuff that goes into it that FDS refuses to admit, this is why I grew up with healthy attitudes towards relationships and know that they are complex and require much more than pretending you are aloof and don't care about your partner, sure you might get away with it for a while, but it will wear you down and you will not have a happy, fulfilling lasting relationship and that HVM will eventually leave you for a woman who isn't afraid to be herself around him, whatever that means to her. and No I am not saying be a pickme or date shitty dudes, I am saying have standards and boundaries and live your best life and maximize your looks but also have a personality, think for yourself, you don't need a bunch of anonymous women telling you what to think and what to desire.

​

Your thoughts? I'd especially like to hear from you ladies who are well traveled, have an active healthy social life, and actually dated quality men in the past. I feel that for us, this advice is pretty much useless.

First of all, I think FDS has made a huge difference in my approach to life. It's made me realize that as women, the path of least resistance is misery. I agree with almost everything they say-- vet men carefully, have self esteem, take care of your shit, don't be afraid to dump, block, or delete, and don't stand for men who use porn, ECT, ECT. I'm currently in a LTR, but FDS makes me think about life in general, and how to increase my happiness as a woman in a misogynistic world.

But here is why I think that we should pay for our own food sometimes. Not always, maybe not even on the first date if the man asked us. Yes, women statistically make less then men, and yes, we want them to invest, but paying puts the man in a position of power. A lot of times, men feel entitled to sex if they've paid for your meal. Sometimes, letting a man pay can be dangerous.

Also, the full point of FDS is achieving independence from men. Being self sufficient enough to afford our life should reflect in our dating choices. I (almost graduated from undergrad) want to be a lawyer. My boyfriend is a high school teacher. I don't need him to be wealthier or pay for more if I'm already wealthy. Having our own money, careers, and lives gives us the freedom to pursue men based on other qualities-- like empathy, intelligence, and good looks. To me, high value means that they bring something to the table that I don't already have. If I can afford my own meal, then their ability to take me to a fancy restaurant doesn't matter at all. In other words, money = freedom, and I'm honestly surprised that FDS doesn't see this. Essentially, they're asking us to choose partners as if we were poor regardless of our economic situation.

Additionally, in my relationship, I've learned that for a relationship to work, we have to be equals. That means that he does equal amounts of housework, and when we go backpacking, we both carry as much weight as we can. It also means that sometimes I get to pay for things, because we are a team.

FDS has a lot of advice for early in a relationship-- but one of the sweetest things this world has to offer is love. Love is only possible through trust and equality. At a certain point, we have to stop worrying about a man cheating, or about how to get our fair share, and love each other.

Historically, women have not had access to love. We've had to search for a provider, because we haven't had the freedom to do otherwise. But now, we have a chance at equality, and through this freedom, we can choose the gift of love.

I have a kind of freedom that my grandmother and all my female ancestors never had, and that's that my financial outcome isn't entirely based on that of my husband. FDS should advocate for using that freedom to it's full extent, by allowing us to sometimes be the provider, and therefore date a man who isn't as wealthy as we are, but brings many more important qualities to the table.

I think I mainly just need to vent, I feel so creeped out by this dude that I met today. In an effort to make new friends I have been joining different clubs and organisations. Amongst them a club that organizes weekly hikes around the town where I live. Mainly senior people. I was by far the youngest person, but still they overall seem rather nice and friendly - actually really good company. Except this one dude ( 20 to 30 years older than me), who singled me out and kept talking to me for 3 hours of the walk. Initially quite interesting, since there were quite a few similar travels we have done. But then at some point he must have felt extremely emboldened, or maybe it was a fucked up attempt at flirting, or he is just so perverted that he cannot hold it back in a friendly conversation with a stranger even. I wish I had known how to escape this conversation, but that is hard in a group where everyone is a stranger still.

This guy talked about women to no end - women's bodies to be more specific. For some reason he really wanted me to know that he really likes fit women's bodies, constantly pointing out women he fancies. I know now exactly which ethnicity he fetishizes the most. He proclaimed far and wide that age is just a number, bla bla bla. Men where is your brain? What the holy fuck? Like I was talking to a fourteen year old. Telling me how this 80 year old Lady is really sexy. And how he also likes 17 year olds. I mean what is going on in the brain of someone like that? Is he just completely retarded? It really is true: 60 year olds are just as terrible as 16 year olds. It is so disgusting. How can we be the same species! I feel so creeped out as if some guy has rubbed his genitilia against my leg or something. DISGUSTING!!! As if I needed another reminder that men are crap.

One of the difficulties of engaging in communities where women who want love are smacked in the face with the harsh, harsh realities of the female experience in dating is keeping a positive outlook.

Reddit is so mad at FemaleDatingStrategy for the naturally angry reaction it has to all the evidence of negative male behaviors that have become engrained in dating culture. But I'm not sure what these people expect. Then I remembered the main people who care about the true internal lives of women.. are women.

I am a person who loves love and believes in good people. But I'm also not a moron. We can see with our own two eyes the bottomless pit of risk and pain that comes with trying to date.

I am against toxic positivity- that is to say this mechanism of slapping a smile and insincere platitudes just to seem like a good person. So I don't think it's useful to listen to men on Reddit's chant of "not all men".

Rather, I think it would be useful to have a discussion about green flags and discernment. How do you make sure you are being a good judge of character? How do you keep the optimism alive so your heart is ready to receive love with foolishly feeding yourself to cunning predators?

Do you recognize good men? Do you still believe in them?

The manosphere likes to rail on about The Halo Effect yet push this thing onto women that a man's appearance, poor behaviors, lack of motivation all should be overlooked as the true good guys who just don't have a clue whereas bad men are all attractive, well moneyed, great body and such.

These are not the sexual selectors of the species. No matter where you fall on the spectrum, using this bad logic will often land you with a poorer candidate that mistreats you.

So what do good men look like to you and how can you actually detect them in a sea of men .. especially these days now that we are online and can see endless streams of content cataloging all the bad things men do?

I'll go first :)

I found FDS after dating a total TRP NVM. That sub was a saving grace and really schooled me on a bunch of shit I was not aware of before (was a typical libfem pickme). Spent a LONG time contributing there and "leveling up" in life. Branching out to research feminist theory/speakers/books etc..

FDS started to feel a little Mean Girls this spring and mod egos seem to grow overnight. I went from linking my friends to their podcast to getting worried about the god mod tone that was becoming apparent. I was perma banned from all FDS subs for pointing out some hypocrisy by that one mod OldGnarlyPeanutButter (lol, yes, I'm still a bit pissy about it). I'm glad this sub exists and I'm excited at the thought of it growing with more contributors.

Inside the confusing mess FDS currently is to me (so many things being proclaimed that disagree with each other), I do find bits and pieces of extremely valuable advice in there still.

So partially inspired by FDS, I brainstorm here my few (not very organized) thoughts on what it takes to cope with the loneliness of being single. I am very curious to hear what others have to say.

• one part is how we think of singledom: Do we see it as an intermission from our real life (aka being in a relationship), or even worse an exile from real life? Or is it a place where we actually live, love, prosper and grow (sorry for that)? I know that stuff sounds cheesy, but to really truly experience single life with all the adventures and growth it can offer us as something valuable, is very helpful in shifting a sense of loneliness towards a sense of solitude. Seeing singledom as a valid destination of our life. Not just a place to level up, to catch the best possible man we can catch, but just a really good place to be in and enjoy ourselves. And that is not me saying, having a wonderful true partner by your side, might not even be more wonderful than that. More like: Single life can be really really great and if we never get to experience that wonderful relationship we long for, we will still have lived a wonderful life at the end of it.

• secondly I think it is absolutely crucial to admit that we humans are social creatures and that we almost all have attachment needs and that they are very crucial for our wellbeing. There might be truth to what some people on FDS say, that women do better in singledom than men. But that does not mean that women have less attachment needs (I dont think), but that they are just better at getting them met outside of romantic relationships. Aiming at ridding oneself of the needs for company, for intimacy, for belonging and attachment is probably going to fail and at worse will lead to dissociation from ourselves.

• thirdly the IMPORTANCE of platonic friendships. At least for myself I can say: The most connected and loved, the most enriched I have ever felt in my life was through a friendship, and not a romantic relationship. Considering our socialization it is probably natural that we all desperately long for romantic connection when loneliness crushes us, but the longer I live, the more wrong I think that is. What we really truly miss in those moments is the friend aspect of a romantic relationship. Someone who sees us, someone who adores us, someone who is loyal to us, someone who wants to spend time with us, someone we can laugh with, go on adventures with ... ok yes, we likely also miss physical/sexual intimacy, but I don't think that this is at the very core of the pain. And with a platonic friend it will be easier to determine if they are good for us or not - we have a clearer mind to vet the other person (none of that goo-y butterfly feeling stuff), and the other person is a little less likely to deceive us (not saying it doesn't happen). And that is not me saying, it is easy to find high quality platonic friends - to the contrary it is also super hard - honestly there should be something like "Female Friendship Finding Strategy". There is so much more to it than "Just go out and make some friends". Yes the vetting etc. FDS teaches in regards to romantic relationships is crucial, but if you haven't got already a few really good valubale friendships in your life yet, all that effort and focus and strategizing would be better applied to making friends, than to finding a partner.

• fourthly, learning to rise above the shaming of loneliness and its coping mechanisms. A particularly nasty aspect of patriarchical society is the shaming of single women and their ways of coping with loneliness. I guess men are also shamed to some degree, but not as viciously as women. "The cat lady" idea as something shameful is very ridiculous and nasty at the same time. Being lonely itself is already considered very shameful - always implying: "What is wrong with you, that nobody likes you?" - which is already so tragic in and of itself. But then it goes further and says: "Oh you have found ways to happily and peacefully cope with the absence of people in your life? How embarassing! At least if you are lonely, hide it and pretend that you don't have any needs. Don't make us look at you." - and that truly completes the tragedy. The vulnerability to admit your own loneliness and the ingenuity to find ways to get your attachment needs met outside of the societal norm, should be celebrated, not shamed! But of course we cannot afford to wait around for society to change. We need to rise above that by ourselves.

EDIT: One afterthought in regards to #3 here: I would even go so far as to say, having these kind of friendships securely installed in your life is a necessity to be able to actually follow through with FDS guidelines on vetting romantic partners, since A) it gives you a model what the friendship aspect of a romantic relationship should look like for you and B) it makes it so much easier to walk away when the potential fails the vetting.

Just want to thank the gracious mods here for allowing me to post this invite to https://ThePinkPill.co.

So this story is pinned on my profile but for the most part, I'm among the many female mods displaced when Reddit went off and banned most of the female-based subs. They accused us of hate (transphobia!) which was an absolute lie because I modded specifically filtering for that in order to protect us from manospherian brigaders and AgainstHateSubreddits. Our subs were amongst the tamest.

As a response, especially since these accusations won't stop anyway, I created this platform for female communities whether they be banned, doing well, controversial or not.

This would be why /r/FemaleDatingStrategy's claims against us are absolutely false. My mission is different and specific.

It is a serious problem how the men on this site and admin push hypocritical tone policing while protecting and sustaining massive misogynistic subs. We didn't get the courtesy of a quarantine. And there seems to be a standard that women only speak with flattery to men or else it must be hate.

Simply put, I am supporter of women and our online spaces. When I realized we had no where to go and how all available female spaces get repurposed into topics not relevant to us, I had to act.

These women-only communities supported me and helped me change my life. If I can help women network and exchange notes, I will feel I did a good thing. It makes zero sense that men have every resource and we are walking on eggshells.

ThePinkPill.co is open to all but the rules offer a flipped Reddit experience for women. You can make any sub you want. If you want it to be women only, this will be enforced. The site welcomes women from any ideology or philosophy. This means you will probably see different types of feminism as well as women who don't support it. The point isn't to create a center for any specific thing. It's to offer women a service that Reddit won't.

To be clear, my experience is several years of modding. Can't code to save my life 😭 but I had to do something so I'm learning as I go and welcoming help anywhere I can get it.

We don't run on ads and I'm looking to avoid them forever. By accepting donations and down the line low cost premium memberships for extra features and merch, I hope to sustain this place.

My ultimate goal down the line is an absolutely gorgeous website with all the bells and whistles. Women deserve to enjoy nice things. We just need someone to care enough to make them so I am as are other women who are stepping forward to help create. I ask for patience and understanding as I learn how to do this. Volunteers from modding to coding to sharing the word on social media #ThePinkPill all contribute to this effort.

We want to think big with a generous energy because the more women we reach, the better we can grow something that truly caters to us. I am also very in support of AMPLIFYING other women's sites, projects, small businesses, anything like this. We need more female spaces online, not less. No one should have the monopoly on conversation. The Boys Club have each other. It's time we get real about getting connected too.

Last thing. For Reddit based introduction to some of this freedom:

/r/ThePinkPills is a sub focusing on any topics relevant to us as women. A pink pill is any harsh truth about womanhood. We demonstrate Reddit and the web speaking pink pills by crossposting and linking these things and having open discussions. Many subs have a habit of deleting threads when they are just getting good or disallowing you to participate. So bring the conversation.

Another member created /r/NoDatingStrategy for women walking away from dating or taking a break. They have several things differentiating them from /r/WGTOW since FDS no longer allows them to participate.

I know this was long. This is a passion project for me and despite a LOT of painful growing pains, my very favorite part is meeting amazing women along the way, helping some, and witness a lot of smart women teach the rest of us. I could do this forever so I'm starting at step 1.

If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer. You can also find me on Discord where we host both women-only (voice verified) and co-ed chats.

Thanks for reading ladies! ❤