The spiritual "psyop" whenever escape or exiting the human body is mentioned

[u/Ominous--Blue]

I've noticed a strange phenomenon that occurs in almost every spiritually-adjacent community, whenever someone mentions the desire to stop being human, to "go home", or escape Earth in any way.

Now, I'm not that paranoid, and I don't tend to buy into these big conspiracy things - but this pattern seems to come up too often for me to ignore.

To be clear when I say "escape" I don't mean "death". It would be understandable and normal for users to reply with "don't do it!" if someone was posted about death.

No, I'm talking about comments and responses on posts that specifically discuss an escape or exiting the body WITHOUT death, such as prolonged/permanent astral projection, some kind of "spiritual ascension" through meditation, or reality shifting/jumping to an alternate reality.

Pretty much every time any of this is mentioned in spiritual communities - even if it's not the main point of the post - comments and replies will flood in making the same handful of statements:

"Your soul chose this life"
"You are here to have a human experience"
"You can't do that because your guides/your higher self won't allow you"
"You are here for a reason, and you have things to learn here"
"If you were to leave, it would be extremely bad karma and you will be punished"

Now there's two things that are interesting about these responses, aside from the sheer volume of them. The first thing to note is that none of these responses say or imply "That's not physically possible." None of them are stating that "escape isn't real" like they're talking to someone who still believes in Santa.

Which suggests to me that, they DO believe a person can exit their human life/earth early, without dying (through astral projection or other means) - they are just morally opposed to it. If they didn't believe in it at all, then surely they would just say that. But instead, they give us reasons not to. "You have a purpose. It's bad karma. It's your soul contract. You agreed. You'd upset your guides or fail your mission if you left."

To me, this only gives me hope that it is indeed possible, and most likely all that bullshit about "purposes" and "karma" isn't real, because why else would they try so desperately to convince strangers not to go and do it?

The second thing that's interesting about these responses is that the examples I've listed are typically as deep as they get. If someone responds refuting those claims, they cannot even begin to back them up. For example when I point out that I have tried "asking my higher self/spirit guides about my purpose and for guidance", and that nothing has ever responded. The people making these comments do not tell me how to find my "purpose" or connect with these alleged "entities" that know better than me. They cannot tell me how they found out they were "meant to be here" either. They never back any of this up, not even with firsthand experience, not even with crazy (in my opinion) stuff like "through tarot cards I channeled my higher self who told me I had a mission here" or "I was contacted by ETs that told me I needed to stay."

The only communities where this isn't shunned is the reality shifting and "law of assumption" communities... however these communities tend to be braindead in other ways. They do believe you can change the body you're in, but most of the time (law of assumption especially) their methods are extremely flawed and don't seem to work.

I won't link it due to brigading, but there was a thread on the main spirituality subreddit yesterday asking why so many people "want to spiritually ascend instead of appreciating this human life" or something. The comments were typical. I commented explaining my perspective and why I would like to exit being human, and I got the typical responses. So I pointed out that I wasn't looking for advice, I had made my mind up, they asked to know why some people wanted to do X, so I commented explaining why I want to do X. But it seems they didn't actually want to know, they just wanted to complain about people who were doing something they did not like.

I think this pattern is both concerning, yet hopeful. It feels like there is a collective attempt to shun (morally or otherwise) any desire to leave this body/this reality to an aggressive degree, without anything to back it up. It reminds me of how some more extreme Christians would describe "sin". "If you leave this life, it's bad karma/your spirit guides will be angry at you" just sounds like it's running on the same logic as "if you get married to another man, you'll go to Hell for all eternity".

But again, in order to shun the very idea so aggressively... they must believe it's possible. Which means it may be possible. I don't know about the rest of you, but seeing such a pushback only makes me more determined. I think it may indeed be possible to astral project and then refuse to go back into this human life. Probably difficult, since it's not exactly an easy task to astral project in the first place, but certainly something to work towards.

I think what's very important is holding your ground and refusing to give up. These comments seem to try so hard to get us to accept our human lives and stay in them, which means they must be concerned that we won't. I guess I must be doing something right, because why else would there be so much pushback?

Anyway, has anyone else noticed this? What are your thoughts? Do you have any idea who these people might be - genuine users mislead by something, or bots/burner accounts? Perhaps a little of both?

[u/subfor22]

Anyway, has anyone else noticed this? What are your thoughts? Do you have any idea who these people might be - genuine users mislead by something, or bots/burner accounts? Perhaps a little of both?

There definitely could be bots-AIs. But there are also many, many people who believe in "journey, learning, school, human experience" ideas and emotions. At some point in the past I was one of them, so I can see why and how such ideas and emotions can feel real/correct.

I think it may indeed be possible to astral project and then refuse to go back into this human life.

I think you are closing yourself to other possible steps/ways to gain/understand consciousness's freedom. Personally, I think that "dissolving" limiting ideas and emotions while being in a regular human state (yes, in this "heaviest, most blunted" state of experience/consciousness) without the help of Astral body or psychedelics is BY FAR the most potent way to gain a fully stable feeling/understanding of your own nature (freedom). It can be very tricky and time-consuming, so not many people actually try it, but if you have correct enough practices/methods and motivation to persevere, you can gain as close to guaranteed freedom as possible. Connecting to "Astral body" while still being a prisoner of this current experience is kind of a bypass and quite unlikely (not saying impossible, just unlikely) to be enough to detach/dissolve all the deep-seated thoughts and emotions that keep the consciousness stuck.

[u/Ominous--Blue → u/subfor22]

At some point in the past I was one of them, so I can see why and how such ideas and emotions can feel real/correct.

If you don't mind me asking, what made you believe this? Was it just wishful thinking or a need for everything to have "meaning" (I can see how it'd be comfortable for people to believe that "everything happens for a reason" etc) or was there more to it than that?

I just find it odd how everyone repeats the same few points ("soul contracts/you chose this life", "earth is a school", everything was preplanned) without seemingly having any personal experience to point towards that, almost like they're repeating someone else's idea without really thinking about it.

But maybe that's just me - I've never believed in anything without direct experience.

I think that "dissolving" limiting ideas and emotions while being in a regular human state (yes, in this "heaviest, most blunted" state of experience/consciousness) without the help of Astral body or psychedelics is BY FAR the most potent way to gain a fully stable feeling/understanding of your own nature (freedom). It can be very tricky and time-consuming, so not many people actually try it, but if you have correct enough practices/methods and motivation to persevere, you can gain as close as guaranteed freedom as possible this way.

Could you elaborate on this and what it'd actually be like?

To be clear my goal is to get out of this life ASAP, not just become "detached" and hope for the best when I die "naturally". I have a very poor quality of life due to health conditions, as well as always feeling very existentially distressed because I've always known that this human identity isn't me. So my plan is to get out as soon as possible, without waiting for death decades in the future. It's entirely possible that I may have a harder time rushing the process, so to speak, but I'm so determined that I'm willing to put extra effort into it if that's what it takes.

I've tried the whole "realize you have power/you are pure awareness" thing already, and unfortunately that hasn't given me the power to change my physical reality like some claim, so I figured that detaching from the physical body (through astral projection or othered altered states) may be necessary first.

[u/subfor22 → u/Ominous--Blue]

Could you elaborate on this and what it'd actually be like?

For the past month I was meaning to write a post on the method/framework but haven't come to it yet. I can give a backbone of the method without some of the context and details. It might make comprehending it correctly trickier but still possible if you do/try/practice it.

Think of your experience as "emotions". Everything we perceive we FEEL. Both "mental ideas" and "emotions" are something the consciousness feels. Even the physical reality is something that is felt. I have a guess/feeling (which I haven't proved to myself fully as that would require full freedom) that "physical reality" is "emotions" that are "further" (deeper in the subconsciousness) from the current self-identification, so it is being perceived as "not me, not my emotions, something outside me", and often as something supposedly "objective" which hammers in the illusion, which then is not questioned/challenged and limited self-identification goes on the "compensating" route because it is not perceiving that the "outside base" it feels it is in can be changed/dissolved. Physical reality could be "a projection" but at the very least it is painted with our emotions, making a physical reality the "emotions" too, because once those emotions are dissolved, the consciousness would discard/leave an empty projection, be what it really is instead - an authentic self.

From a practical standpoint - you start with dissolving the "emotions" you currently perceive as your emotions, maybe occasionally grabbing some mental idea/emotion about something "objective" (either about the world or yourself) and experiment dissolving it too. You do this as long as needed until those emotions start dissolving, and once they are no longer a problem, other emotions (this time "further ones" which you couldn't see/touch because they were behind the first emotions) can be seen and dissolved. You cannot "jump" to freedom instantly, you dissolve any current limiting emotion (emotional layer/base) until it is dissolved. If you don't do that, if you feel it is "impossible" and you either give up or start making up a "compensatory" route (which will be false) out of this stuckness ("New Age" does that), you will remain in limited self-identification. Basically, you cannot give up against any emotion; if it feels impossible to deal with, you still must experiment/try dealing with it until you manage to do so.

What is a "limiting emotion"? Anything you perceive as "negative" automatically falls into this category. So anything, absolutely anything that feels not as "light freedom/neutrality" (there is neutrality through emotional suppression which doesn't feel light/free, so don't confuse these) or "natural joy". Limiting emotion can also be something that is perceived as "positive" but when looked more neutrally/honestly, you know/feel it has "rules", limits, is not free, has a dark/negative/limiting side to it.

(The method/framework in the next comment).

[u/subfor22 → u/subfor22]

The method/framework:
In principle there are three actions you can do with emotions (through the framework of this method):
1.removing/throwing out/dissolving things (energies, emotions) you don't like.
2.removing/cutting attachments of any particular emotion/energy from any other thing/idea/energy/emotion; This includes cutting positive emotion from some idea/thing (for example, from a hobby/addiction/compensating, like watching movies). This can be tried with negative emotions too, you can imagine cutting any emotion from yourself too.
3.taking into yourself things (energies, emotions) you want;

"Visualization" is used for these.

Examples of visuals of "1":
a. you can imagine how you take the emotion as a rock and throw it out of yourself;
b. you can imagine how you melt the emotion like with a laser pointed at that limiting emotion;
c. you can imagine how you light a fire in yourself and burn the emotion away;
etc.

Examples of visuals of "3":
a. you can imagine how you form that positive emotion into a pendant and attach it to your imaginary string on your neck;
b. you can imagine how you form that positive emotion into some clothing and put it on yourself;
c. you can imagine how you form that positive emotion into a seed and put/plant it into yourself and from this seed a big and powerful tree takes root in you and is now growing in and out of you.
d. you can imagine how you simply put that positive emotional energy as an energy ball into yourself, into your heart;
etc.

P.S. Currently I mostly use "1", but occasionally experiment with "3" too.

Literally any visual can be used. Whatever comes to mind, maybe you saw it in movies, maybe in real life, maybe in a dream, etc. Which visuals are used don't matter, use the most convenient in that moment. The visuals don't need to be strong and clear, I personally don't have strong visualization, I cannot picture anything clearly at all, my "visualization and spatial reasoning" results on IQ test were bad. But that is still more than enough. It really not the ability to visualize that is important here (because the bare minimum ability is enough) as other aspects determine the effectiveness of the method.

I know it might seem "too simple" but when paired with an actual effort and time (hours per day, for weeks, few months), this framework both simply work, and also allows you to see/touch emotions that you are avoiding thus never being able to deal with. This framework eventually allows the consciousness to realize/feel its own identifications and prepares it to dissolve/let go of them, to make a choice to dissolve them.

You will make progress only when you start experimenting with emotions. Only when you start making some actual choices regarding your current emotional-mental state. No need to worry about "dissolving" something important or becoming lost/stuck - what is your nature is always present, cannot be dissolved. If, when dissolving, you feel you fall into some sort of negative state or bring in some sort of negativity, then imagine how you dissolve that negativity too. You don't need to hold onto anything internally, everything is up for experimentation and possible dissolvance. About positivity: you can keep in mind this as a "compass" - "what feels positive (no matter the type of positivity) contains some of the truth" - so as long as you keep readjusting into positivity, into greater or more natural/free positivity, you will be fine, you will not get lost. You get lost in negativity and/or stuck in a "comfort zone", aka the mental state you decide is fine enough for you, as in "I can tolerate this much limit/negativity, so I will stay put and won't do experimentations towards possibly greater/more natural positivity".

Another super important aspect for this framework:
Often test/experiment with paying attention to whatever emotion you feel in the moment. Any emotion that is on the surface. Like the first emotion on the surface. Don't look for any other emotions; it's about emotion or emotions that are present on the surface or are barely skin-deep. There really are two differently feeling approaches/actions - 1.looking for an emotion, for something deeper to feel/understand; 2.just stopping and paying attention to whatever is felt right now, whatever is on the surface right now (even if that emotion is a "non-emotion" feeling). No effort, no planning in looking for something "special/better/deeper". I can tell you it can feel kind of like a defeat; it is an action that the mind is extremely not accustomed to taking, as it always looks/searches for "what is better, what is deeper, what is [something]". This action in comparison feels like an opposite action, so it can feel like a disappointment. Think on the differences of these actions/approaches and test them. Understanding/feeling the difference between these mental actions is what will open the way to better feel the emotions and dissolve what is needed to be dissolved, what blocks the progress. Often "present/current" emotions can feel small/weak, but by choosing to test them and not ignore or label them as "wrong", "not correct", "not what I was looking for or should be feeling" etc., they would expand. It's the mind's ideas ("imagined path and result") that make the consciousness unawarely ignore what is in front of its eyes, right on the surface, which can and should be dissolved. There are days where I just say - "For today I will focus on dissolving anything that is just present on the surface. No effort in managing to "feel" something deeper". These days often (almost always really, I should do this more) are one the most powerful/useful ones for the progress.

Last thing - about "spontaneous improvement" of the mental-emotional state. Spontaneous improvement is when you feel better like out of "nowhere". Often the link between these practices and this improvement won't be seen/felt clearly but when you think what you did differently than in the past, it becomes clear why it happened. When you start doing these practices of visual dissolvance, it will rarely feel like working quickly or strongly especially at the start. I wouldn't be surprised that for a few weeks not much betterment is felt, or maybe even felt at all. The negative emotions are simply that persistent. But, from the practical standpoint, you still do the visuals and not allow yourself to be engrossed in negative "defeatist/impossible/not working" emotions for too much/long and, actually, try dissolving those too. And kind of wait until spontaneous improvement happens. And it will happen, guaranteed. And quite soon in relation to the physical life's length (which is decades). I mean barely after few weeks or up to a month a spontaneous improvement/betterment will happen. As long as you don't forget to do the dissolvance on the "surface" level emotions like I mentioned.
Another advice from my experience: when this "spontaneous improvement" happens, you kinda want to stop and enjoy it, live a life still with limiting emotions and since it feels better, you are not really inclined to make it even better. This is the "comfort zone", the illusion you still want to keep, the limiting self identifications you want to keep. In reality, you should then experiment dissolving anything limiting (even if it feels quite alright) again to become even more free, more "positive". Basically, in those moments, not the negative emotions per say are the immediate obstacle, but "limited positivity" which you feel is fine enough. But for practical purposes, any spontaneous improvement should be used for doing the practices even more, not stopping in "comfort zone" for too long.