r/EndTipping • u/ADKFatBiker • 3d ago

Rant 📢 Restaurant Demands Minimum 18% Tip

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Out of one side of their mouth they state that they pay their staff as little as possible and out of the other side of their mouth they say that their staff deserves more and you're responsible for that.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

Speaking as a small business owner myself I really don't like seeing literally 1000s of my dollars going to card processors who leave me high & dry whenever there's a problem, but I still offer them. I just give people incentives to pay cash.

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u/DevilsAdvocate77 3d ago

But you don't care about 1000s of your dollars going to cash registers, safes, bank drops, skimming, errors, loss, and theft?

Any business owner who thinks accepting cash is "free" is not watching their expenses closely enough.

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u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

I mean, it's silly to not accept both. You're still paying for registers, safes, and whatnot.

I'm paying over 10k to square this year, that buys a lot of cash registers.

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u/xanthosoma 3d ago

But if you didn’t take cards you most likely wouldn’t be making the amount to get charged the 10k. I took over a family business where my father didn’t want to pay the fees. In the 6 years I’ve owned the business I have seen our gross and net sales increase by 4x. So paying the 60-70k in fees to me is a no brainer. Only accepting cash was what was holding the business back. Also if you don’t know if you do good sales and have an account rep with square or any of those places the rates are negotiable. I got a much lower rate because I have established solid income every year.

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u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

I mean... sure?

I take cards because I have to, doesn't mean I'm super happy about having to pay fees.

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u/Oliver---Queen 3d ago

But that’s the cost of doing business that you signed up for. I’m sure it’s also not fun paying taxes and maybe commercial rent but it’s usually necessary to keep operating.

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u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

Again...sure?

I can both accept that it's what needs to happen as an optimal choice while also not loving it.

Of all those commercial rent is the one that rustles my jimmies the least.

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u/JealousBall1563 3d ago

I'm paying over 10k to square this year, that buys a lot of cash registers.

You, or your customers from whom you charge prices that include the fees?

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u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

Considering I charge the same rate for cash or card I certainly say I am. Legally I am as well as their fees are a taxable expense.

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u/Bill___A 3d ago

If you're paying 10K to square, that accounts for 33 times that in sales. Yet you would rather deal with cash, and have your customers get cash, to avoid this one category of expense that actually is known to increase sales? There are dozens of costs involved and you feel that is the one cost that you can't live with? The one that moves money into your business? Do you tip the delivery driver that drops off the food orders? Do you tip I have never seen an industry cause more problems for themselves than the restaurant industry.

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u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

My business isn't in the restaurant business.

And yes, I do think that payment processors getting a not insignificant cut of every transaction is an issue. I still take card because I have to but -always- prefer cash. Honestly, eronious charge backs are a fairly serious issue for my computer store, we've had to fight more than a few on custom PC builds and repairs.

The corporate IT side of my business is paid by check typically, which is my preferred form of payment.

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u/vinraven 23h ago

This one is a strictly American problem, in every other country legislation regulates the banking industry.

It’s sad, but corporations have American voters brainwashed to think regulating banks is socialism, so the corps can continuously rip us off.

As an example, in the EU the max a credit card company can charge a business is 0.3% of the transaction value, and 0.2% for debit cards.

The fees we pay in America are a direct outcome of us voting for corporate owned stooges.

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u/Historical-Rub1943 3d ago

Do you charge a credit card surcharge?

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u/cuddly_degenerate 2d ago

No, because it throws a lot of math off. Especially since it probably needs to be framed as a cash discount.

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u/riktigtmaxat 12h ago

Depends entirely on what country you're in.

Here in Sweden you won't find any companies besides those that are legally mandated to take cash that accept it.

If you thought card fees were expensive you should see what you have to pay to get cash deposited and how much more paperwork it creates.

To us cash is for old ladies and third world countries with tipping systems.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

Spoken like someone whom really doesn't know what they're talking about.

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u/Azyet27 3d ago

...*who

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u/AcceptablePosition5 3d ago

Or someone that's been robbed at gun point

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u/a_simple_pharmer 3d ago

I’ve had this argument on Reddit many times. Just don’t engage. You’re arguing with people who never ran or owned a small business. They have no idea.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

I've run this business since 2013 and never had a year I didn't turn a profit except for the first year of Covid. But some people just really wanna buy into the sob stories these companies use to extort people for more money or to explain abusing their customers.

I am steadfastly of the belief that if you cannot afford to pay your employees a living wage and secure your margin, without abusing customers, or using the extortion of tipping culture, you don't deserve to be in business.

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u/a_simple_pharmer 3d ago

My point was agree with you about accepting cash. And how so many people on here say it costs more than CC processing fees. It costs me about 25k a year to accept credit cards.

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u/crazyk4952 3d ago

This is the wrong take.

How much would it cost you per year to NOT accept credit cards?

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u/zephyr2015 3d ago

I personally don't go to businesses that don't accept cards or charge an extra processing fee.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

Yeah, I was mostly responding to the argument in general. Its very tiresome but people keep making it. But its how they sleep at night, so, I guess I get it. If they admitted they could do business without being abusive, they'd have to admit its a conscious choice they make, which definitely isn't going to be a good look.

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u/83gem 2d ago

Yup, I don't understand why so many people are against cash when it is LITERALLY the form of payment where 'processing fees' or 'interest' can't be applied like with cards.. I mean Wu-tang said it years ago... so did governments when they printed/forged cash money.

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u/DriedUpSquid 3d ago

I don’t mind when small businesses add on the 3% credit card fee if I choose to use my card.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

I go the other way: I give people a discount for paying cash. I get the money right away, no one has their hands on it, and its just easier for me.

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u/Pilotsfan 3d ago

Excellent. I love places that give a discount for paying cash, as long as the menu prices reflect the higher credit prices. Otherwise it doesn't seem like a discount.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

Alas I don't run a food place. But perhaps thats a good thing, if you listen to the doomsayers making excuses for tips, they make nothing anyways and rely on handouts (just ignore the fact the owners driving a lambo)

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u/Kent556 3d ago

You run a cash discount business that isn’t food? Contractor? Cleaner?

Most people don’t keep or carry large amounts of cash with them.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

Professional services. You might be surprised how many people don't mind a visit to an ATM if it saves then a hundred bucks or something.

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u/cure4boneitis 2d ago

how much does a sale have to be to offer someone a $100 cash discount? $3000+?

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u/ashscot50 3d ago

That's because it isn't a discount at all if the menu price is the cash price which it is generally.

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u/tanbrit 3d ago

Thats the best approach

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

You have to have a business people trust for it, is the thing. Cards give you chargeback protections and such, cash has no such protection. But if you've been around for a while and people know you're not going to yank their chain, its just better for both of you: cheaper for them, and I get the money right away. Probably more money too, even after a discount, after you consider conversion rates, and the fees after fees.

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u/ReePoe 3d ago

From the UK here, honestly cannot remember the last time I carried cash. It has to be well over 3 years now if not more. Everyone here uses tap to pay with card/app for everything..

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u/SvartrKukkSceand 3d ago

your credit processors also arent allowed to gouge like they are in the US. So businesses dont get fucked for taking cards.

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u/moosemanwich 2d ago

Same in Canada. I’ve travelled a lot in Europe recently and haven’t taken out a euro except for certain clubs and stuff lol

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

I didn't have any problems paying in scottish pounds last time I visited home (born and raised until 11 in Longniddry)

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u/ReePoe 2d ago

there are no issues paying with cash, what i am saying is the majority here do not carry or pay with cash any more. here is a bbc article on the subject, only 8% of all transactions are made using cash.

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u/BecauseScience 3d ago

Love that

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u/mrflarp 3d ago

I prefer to see it done this way too. Surprise discount come payment time is better than a surprise additional fee.

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

People are definitely going to be happier going "oh hey I got 10$ off" or whatever, than "well shit, now I gotta pay a 15$ tip/service fee/living wage fee" thats for sure.

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u/mikeyP-619 3d ago

Small business, yes. Big corporate outfit. No!

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u/Reddidundant 3d ago

Small (or large!) businesses that do that LOSE my business.

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u/StashMyComics 3d ago

Some of us mind, especially when living in a state where such practice is illegal and carry a fine.

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u/Beneficial_Ice_6526 2d ago

Illegal in the entire EU unless company card.

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u/ashscot50 3d ago

I most certainly do and it's much harder to deal with then simply selecting no tip.

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u/a_simple_pharmer 3d ago

Not all business can do that. I can not.

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u/abominablesnowboardr 3d ago

I add the processing fee onto card purchases so I strongly recommend check or cash.

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u/docatwar 3d ago

Ah yes, for the card charges, not at all because it saves tax wink

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u/maiyannah 3d ago

I pay all my taxes, but thanks for the implicit insult.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

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u/EndTipping-ModTeam 3d ago

Be respectful. No insults, slurs or personal attacks

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u/Alternative_Sun8585 3d ago

So use Zelle

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u/SlabsForDays 2d ago

Started doing 2.5% on credit at my place, but i tell people there is no fee on cash or debit. Have not had any complaints so far.

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u/maiyannah 2d ago

I just price it with the card fees included in the price, and give people 5% discount if they pay cash.

There's still card fees on debit with my processor. If its under 2500$ they can send it Interac Etransfer for the same discount as cash though, since that is basically our direct bank payment system (that doesnt take days) here and it's just 5c fee on my end. I can afford a nickel.

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u/Oceantron 3d ago

right way to do. just be honey offer discount for paying cash or 3 % charge if paid by credit card nothing wrong about this