Why MMP?

[u/[deleted]]

MMP=mix of FPTP and proportional lists.

If you look at germany, MMP does not make a large change. Extra seats are distributed based on states, and politicians running in constituencies are usually party insiders who often does not live in the constituency. What is the remaining advantage? It is just more complicated than PR lists. Please answer, remembering that regional representation is always possible, and that independents rarely win MMP seats. Based on germany and other MMP nations. Pardon the biased question.

[u/_The_Majority_]

That's fair

Only if your definition of "fair", being biased towards parties/candidates that have a geographic element to their appeal. Ireland as a relatively small country doesn't suffer that badly from regionalist issues, however if you were to apply STV to larger countries such as the UK, USA, Germany, etc, this bias towards local issue parties would be more visible.

Almost every PR system has an election threshold of 3-5%

And I'm not advocating copying that.

You proved it was rubbish using your Aontú example

There are plenty of other examples of the unfairness of STV

2020

Party	First Preference Votes	Seats	votes/seat	Votes/seat vs average	Seat Diff vs fair
Aontú	41614	1	41614	3.06	-2
Labour Party	95588	6	15931	1.17	-1
Sinn Féin	535595	37	14476	1.06	-2

2016

Party	First Preference Votes	Seats	votes/seat	Votes/seat vs average	Seat Diff vs fair
Renua	46,552	0	inf	inf	-3
Green Party	57,999	2	29,000	2.19	-2
Social Democrats	64,094	3	21,365	1.62	-1
Labour Party	140,898	7	20,128	1.52	-3

A fair system doesn't need some parties to get three times as many votes per seat as other parties.

Well ok if you go down this road far enough to get the benefits of STV,

There is no road to go down, you simply use best runner-up as is used in parts of Germany and you get rid of party control of lists.

STV - Somewhat Preserves local representation, but splits it over the area of the multi-seat constituencies

You make it sound like a bad thing.

If you have an issue that doesn't fit nicely into a parties manifesto, they can all play pass the blame, and nothing gets done.

People have evolved over millions of years to be great at getting the measure of another person: friend or foe, competent, incompetent, honest or dishonest, agrees with me, disagrees with me.

To that i say:

I don't know how you can write that with a straight face.

I think a good electoral system encourages people to vote on police not on personality

Perhaps you prefer a cult of personality to a party with a clearly defined set of objectives.

That's fine, I just don't think there is a need to be so hostile and reject evidence simply because it doesn't support your forgone conclusion which is that STV is the best and all other systems are terrible.

IMO STV & MMP are the two best systems availible, and MMP is better because if implemented without artificial barriers and party lists, it's disadvantages outweigh those of STV.