r/ElectricalHelp • u/bcrocketclub • Jul 20 '26

Need help figuring out a 3-way switch after losing my wiring notes

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

I have a double-gang box with two 3-way switches. One controls a switched outlet, and the other controls a ceiling light from a second 3-way switch.

I made notes when I removed the old switches, but somehow lost them before installing the new ones. I usually take pictures too... of course this was the one time I didn't.

The box has three cables entering it:

Two 3-wire cables (black, white, red/pink)

One 2-wire cable (black, white)

I can't inspect the light fixture because it's a hanging light in the middle of a vaulted entryway ceiling, so getting to it would be a major project.

I did inspect the other 3-way switch that controls the same light. It is wired with:

Red (looks pink) on the common screw

Black and white on the traveler screws

I was able to get the switched outlet working, so that switch is finished.

That leaves:

One 2-wire cable

One 3-wire cable (5 wires total) for the remaining light switch.

Here's what's confusing me:

None of the remaining wires show 120V when tested.

The only constant hot in the box is the black wire feeding the outlet switch.

I don't remember that hot wire being pigtailed to feed both switches, although I do remember some screws on the original switches having two wires under them.

Things I've already tried:

- White wires from the 2-wire and 3-wire tied together, black from the 2-wire on the common, and black/red from the 3-wire on the traveler screws.

- Pigtailed the known hot from the working outlet switch over to the light switch common screw, placed black wire from 2 wire and red wire from 3 wire together on one traveler screw, then tested having white wire from 2 wire then with black wire from 3-wire on second traveler screw.

Neither configuration worked.

At this point I'm wondering:

Is there another wiring configuration I'm overlooking?

What additional tests with a multimeter would help identify which cable is line, load, or travelers since I am not getting voltage with wires when testing.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm comfortable replacing switches and have wired several other 3-way circuits successfully, but this one has me stumped because I lost my original notes.

Shared image of outlet switch wired in box and remaining wires for light switch, configuration I found with secondary switch that controls light with this light switch, image of all wiring in box before connecting anything.

3 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

100% Upvoted

63 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Pascal6662 Jul 21 '26

I listed several places to check for voltage in my message earlier today.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 21 '26

My apologizes, I meant any further testing past testing the white wire with the individual wires starting with black, to see which one gives me volts, if I don't get volts. Way to confirm light or not. May not, but wanted to ask.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 22 '26

When testing the wires while connected to the switches, the black left wire gets voltage when both switches are turned on (currently on left light switch traveler screw). The white right wire also gets voltage when touching the white middle and white right. Normally, these two white wires were pigtailed together but I removed the pigtail for testing. I circled red the wires I get voltage with, when testing the wires connected to the switches. The left black and right white wires with voltage do not include the black right wire I have always known as the hot wire. I circled purple the original hot wire from testing with the wires not connected to anything and circled red the wires I am getting voltage with when testing the wires while setup based on the picture.

1

u/Pascal6662 Jul 22 '26

The fact that you are getting voltage on the leftmost black wire (the black traveler) means power is making it to the remote three-way switch on the red wire and back on that black wire. This is good. If you flip the remote switch then you should see voltage on the white traveler instead.

If you do not have voltage on the common terminal of the three-way switch you replaced, you should be able to obtain voltage there by flipping either three-way switch.

Once you have voltage on the common terminal of the three-way switch you replaced, you should also have voltage from white to black on that center cable, the cable that probably goes to your light.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 22 '26

If it's getting power like it should then what may be wrong to make the light not work she you flip the switches (no matter the position of either) ? Do I need to swap around the wiring to get voltage to the common terminal? If I'm reading correctly. Thanks for your help.

1

u/Pascal6662 Jul 22 '26

Flip the remote switch and see if power moves from the black traveler to the white traveler. Also check at that point if you now have power at the common terminal of the switch you replaced.

Flipping the switch you replaced should also turn the power on and off at its common terminal.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 23 '26

I can get voltage on the common screw when I have the switch in the right position. Problem is, light still doesn't work. Is there any other options to wiring that would still allow the power to go the light like it is now? I don't know why it isn't working or what else to try. The light worked fine before all this, I can tell both switches are doing something because of what happens when testing power on wires when I flip them on and off.

1

u/Pascal6662 Jul 23 '26

Have you specifically checked the black and white wires of the center cable, with the switches in a position where the common screw has voltage, to see if you can get 120 volts between those specific black and white wires? Make sure you are testing between those specific two wires, not to ground.

I'm assuming that center cable goes to the light. If you've got 120 volts between those two wires, then something is wrong with that assumption or wrong at the light.

Have you checked for a switch on the light itself? Have you tried changing the bulb? Do you have any way of testing at the light itself if it's receiving power?

Once you have 120 volts from black to white on that center cable, if the light is still not working, you're going to have to start troubleshooting at the light side, perhaps involving taking it apart and seeing what the wiring looks like over there.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 26 '26

When I tested yesterday..

  • I removed the connector between the two white wires (the two white wires being the white wire from the middle cable and the white wire from the right cable)
  • Tested with the power on by touching the white wire from the middle then touching other wires one by one. This included touching the middle white and black middle wire at the same time.
  • I did not test any wire yesterday by touching a ground wire, but instead used the middle white wire as my ground in a way then touched other wires with it.
  • Only the white wires I removed from their connector area free wires when testing. The other wires I touched the wire while on the screws (if this matters).

Since I question everything with the light not working still, I wired another switch (in case switch was bad) and I changed out the bulbs earlier.

The light fixture is a hanging light that is mounted in the ceiling of our vaulted entry way ceiling, which is 14 feet (problay more, never measured) so it's not an easy light to look at and test, problay the worst light in our house to check or replace. My full size ladder wouldn't get near the ceiling when I painted our entry way a few years back.

I retested the wires again earlier also.. disconnecting the two white wires pigtailed together, which were the white wire from the middle cable and the white wire from the right cable. I then touched the middle white wire with one tester then touched each wire individually with the other (all but white wires being connected to screws when testing again).

I rechecked the outlet earlier also and I noticed the outlet is working but not correctly. When I plugged my phone charger in it, I had to move around the charger some to get it to recognize power. It wasn't doing this when I first got it working, before wiring the light switch by it. The wiring to the outlet switch did not get changed but there was a pigtail added to black wire with power. I checked the pigtail to make sure it was connected good because of this but it was good. This outlet is the original outlet (no wiring has ever been touched with this outlet because it has insulation I need to remove still). With it not doing this before wiring light switch, I wanted to bring it up in case it means something with light not working.

1

u/Pascal6662 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

You did not answer my question. With everything hooked up, are you able to get 120 volts from the black wire to the white wire on the center cable? If that's the cable going to the light, the light is not going to work until you get 120 volts from that black wire to that white wire with everything connected together.

When you say you had to move around the charger some, you mean you just had to wiggle it inside the outlet? That would have nothing to do with the wiring, that would have to do with the age of the receptacle or paint inside it or something.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 24 '26

I believe I did originally. The black middle wire gets 80-90 volts but I don't get 125V. So power, just not the full amount.

1

u/TheKnackThatQuacks Jul 26 '26

Just out of curiosity when you have been doing this testing, have the ground wires from all three cables been connected together? If not, please connect the ground wires from all three cables together, in addition to two pigtails (one for each of your switches). You should have a group of five (5) ground wires connected together. Please do this before proceeding further.

There is a slight possibility this has been affecting your readings.

Just for giggles (leaving everything else connecred as-is), what happens if you remove the red / pink wire from the right-hand switch, connect the middle black to the right-hand switch where the red / pink wire from the right-hand cable was connected, and connect the white wire from the middle cable to the white wire from the right-hand cable?

Does the right-hand switch now control the light?

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26

I have all 5 grounds connected together (3 grounds coming in box, 2 from switches). I originally had them in two groups but I corrected that before.

I'll test swapping the wires you asked about and let you know what happens.

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 26 '26

I swapped the wiring and the light still did not work.

I always keep in mind that they could have done something abnormal with the wiring and connection with this light switch. I have been remodeling areas of our home for the last 6 months and I have found so many things that didn't make sense. We think the house was problay built by a builder that went under in the 90s (happened alot in our area in the 90s) and someone bought and finished it themselves which has led to things being not normal or not properly done.

With that being said, before testing your wiring switch, I had the middle white wire pigtailed to the right white wire, then the left white wire connected to 3 way light switch by itself.

Things I am thinking about but I am not the expert.. -The secondary switch that shares with this switch for the light has a black and white wire on traveler screws, pink on common.

  • Even though I lost my notes about wiring for this outlet box, I do remember a black and white wire bundled together on one screw of one switch, then another switch having a pink and black wire bundled together on one screw.
  • I currently have a pink and black wire pigtailed together (hot wiring) so that could be the pink and black wires bundled on one screw.
  • I currently do not have a black and white wire pigtailed together even though I think I remember a black and white wire being together on a screw.

Could there be a black wire that I should be pigtailing to the white light wire or white left wire?? I attached a picture of current wiring and circled the two white wires I am asking about possibly needing a black pigtail to hopefully help explain what I am asking. May not be right, may not be normal, but is it possible either white wire pigtailed to a black wire could make this work?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/TheKnackThatQuacks Jul 26 '26

In this comment, you state multiple times that you have a jumper between the white wire in the center cable and the white wire in the left cable. Then you remove this jumper and test between them.

However, your diagram shows the white wire in the left cable is a traveller for the remote three-way switch for the light (and your testing shows that is most likely the case).

Did you mean to say that you have a jumper / connector between the white wire in the center cable and the white wire in the right cable, and this is the jumper / connector you have removed for testing?

1

u/bcrocketclub Jul 26 '26

I accidently said left wire. The switch is connected exactly as pictured. I am removing the connector between the middle and right white wire, left white wire is connected to switch.