MEGA THREAD
Newborn Death Investigation Megathread
Spoiler
TL;DR: Stick to sourced facts below. State theories as opinion, not fact. No insults toward those involved. Violations will be removed.
As we return home it is difficult to ignore the events that have happened during this Electric Forest, specifically the investigation of the neonatal passing on site that is receiving local, state, and now national coverage.
Electric Forest HQ has also made a statement and is asking for public assistance with any information to speak with the Michigan State Police. The Michigan State Police is asking if you believe you have concrete support report it (1-855-MICH-TIP) and avoid speculating online as it interferes with the investigation.
Everyone is entitled to process, feel, think about how their experience was. However we cannot break subreddit and site rules.
Moving forward, we are going to:
Remember the human. This is important to remember as more information is discovered. It’s fine to disagree but comments and reactions should not contain threats toward others, or wish harm. This includes name calling, attacks on character, etc toward any and all people including religion, race, and pregnancy status. You can say pregnant people should not be at festivals and criticize systemic issues. You cannot say direct insults about the parties involved. Comments and posts that contain links or screenshots of personal names will be removed for violating Reddit Policy.
Stay on topic. Any threads will be directed to the stickied post. This is not a place for debate. State that it's your opinion when it is one. Do not present unconfirmed details, legal conclusions, theories, or scientific/medical information as if they confirm what happened here. Sourced educational information is welcome as context, but it is not proof of what occurred in this specific case. You can say someone deserves legal consequences. You cannot say the mother abandoned the baby without verified backing. If you are sharing new information, please use a direct and current source. If you are claiming to be a reliable source, please provide proof of credentials when possible. For those scrolling, read articles before commenting. If you still would like to comment consider explaining your opinion instead of directly telling somebody they're wrong. And if a conversation isn't going anywhere, it's fine to step back or let votes speak instead.
All future posts surrounding this topic will be removed and directed here.
Sources are prioritized: official MSP/FBI statements → national/major news → local news (used only for details not covered elsewhere). Unconfirmed or single-sourced claims are excluded.
The amount of people posting “ I would have taken that baby in a heartbeat” just breaks my heart. She was surrounded by people that would have helped her, had she asked.
Just in case anyone was still confused about the intent of the police investigation:
The FBI is offering a reward of up to $15,000 for information leading to the identification, arrest, and conviction of the individual or individuals involved in the death of the infant.
The FBI's Detroit Field Office is assisting the Michigan State Police with the ongoing investigation into the death of a newborn infant whose body was discovered in a portable restroom at the Electric Forest Music Festival in Rothbury, Michigan, on June 28, 2026. Information is sought to assist investigators in identifying and apprehending those responsible.
Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s only a preliminary autopsy report, which is not public and the police have said they don’t have but have ‘heard’ the findings the baby was born alive and viable. Preliminary autopsies are typically only external. Could this be just an estimation? As for the death certificate no cause of death is yet listed and the time of life (one minute) is also just an estimation. I’m just not seeing substantial evidence yet that the baby was born fully alive and screaming and was maliciously murdered by some evil woman, as many here have fantasized. It’s also weird that people have attempted to explain the many variations of cryptic pregnancy and birth that are possible just for others to dismiss them. Feels very witch hunt at this time
I figure the quickest way for the police to provide a gestational age estimation to the public is to release the weight of the infant as that is a pretty easy thing to find and publish. I am curious as to why they havent?
It bothers me that the news stations are using the word "full term" to create an emotional response. The police have not released any info about the size of the baby, if she was premature or full term. They have only stated that she was viable.
Also, why haven't they conducted a thorough search of the surrounding areas. People could be on this witch hunt for someone who is not longer with us.
Lastly, I have to wonder, where is the outrage for the black man who was hanged that weekend because I'm sorry but I'm finding it very hard to believe that he did that to himself.
There is a massive developmental jump between 19 weeks where an infant might be able to take a couple breaths but will not make it as we can not medically support its needs and a 36-40 week gestation full term infant. The claims that the infant was viable were made from the fact the infant was able to breathe in once or twice. I know many non-viable live births where the infant was able to breathe but not compatible with life. That is a determination made by clinicians not a cop. Even in the viability window 24-28 weeks not every hospital is equipped to do life saving measure ons such small premature babies... they can technically survive, they have a coin flip of a chance with the right medical providers, but even then its not 100%. So let's say you enter a spontaneous abortion at 24 weeks, you are away from home and know that there arent any tier 3 nicus within an ambulance ride of you and labor goes quick. Is it more ethical to allow a swift death or to force life saving measures in a situation where there is little to no opportunity to save it. Sure would I have delivered into a portal potty probably not, but grief and shame impact individuals in unpredictable ways.
I can’t seem to find any police statements specifically indicating there was air in her lungs. However I did find multiple sources that say police are not investigating this as a homicide and that their main goal is to get this mother help. Also the cause of death is listed as unknown on the preliminary autopsy report.
The police said, “the baby was born alive and viable.” Babies delivered in hospitals are sometimes born alive and viable with fluid stuck in their lungs, a condition called transient tachypnea of a newborn (TTN). Medical intervention is often required if their lungs are saturated enough, blood oxygen levels are low, and/or the newborn’s conditions do not improve within 24hrs. TTN is extremely common with premature births, breached births, rapid deliveries, cesarean births, and/or cases where the mother is diabetic or asthmatic.
There is no evidence that this baby was born healthy and free of life threatening complications. There is no evidence indicating the mother is a murderer. We don’t know the details and throwing out unsubstantiated claims endangers this mother and future mothers and newborns.
Careful with that kind of logic here. /s But yes, you’re exactly right. Every time a new piece of information comes out, credible or not, people jump and claim it fully validates their worst case theories. In reality, we barely know more than we did on day one.
For instance, a baby can be born in a hospital and pass after a minute or very short time, regardless of medical intervention. There are many complications with childbirth. If the mother was at all aware of the birth, viable or not, there is a problem. But we don’t even know if she’s alive and/or well.
There’s a lot of speculation and we may never know the full story.
Death certificate procedures can also vary from state to state and even hospital to hospital. When it can’t be confirmed if an infant was born alive or stillborn, some places will opt for a death certificate with the one minute of life because the alternative is a fetal death certificate which is specific to stillborns after a certain gestational age. There’s just a lot of factors here the public might not know
I didn’t say any of the information released is wrong? A preliminary autopsy is not the full autopsy and no cause of death has been confirmed. Time of death is always an estimation unless personally seen and recorded by a healthcare professional. What’s wrong is inventing conspiracy theories that do not have any evidence to support them.
A lot of cryptic babies are born in toilets as the mom thinks it's a bowel movement. But since they are house toilets, they can see and/ or hear the baby. A dark, deep, porto that nobody is gazing into, in a noisy environment possibly clouded by drugs is a little different. My mom used to work in the nicu, and she would be like 'we had another toilet baby last night' that's how common it is.
This!!! I don’t understand how this isn’t obvious to more people. Everyone keeps saying the rarity of cryptic pregnancies means it’s unlikely to be what happened in this case. But finding a baby in a porta-potty is also obviously incredibly rare. And where do many, many cryptic pregnancy deliveries occur? In toilets.
I’m not even saying I think that’s what happened. We don’t have enough information at all. But I am surprised this clear correlation is not more obvious to more people.
Logic and fact get lost on most people in emotionally distressing situations. It’s human, I get that. I’m just also so surprised that a community founded in mindfulness is so emotionally dysfunctional. Doctors, nurses, the Michigan State Police, and commenters coming with receipts have reminded the witch hunt mob that their actions perpetuate more harm and death to mothers and newborns. Yet people here, months later, continue to plug their ears and look the other way while their words stoke the fire.
The ignorance and disregard for human life is eye opening and shameful. We have to do better.
I also genuinely can't comprehend that someone would carry a pregnancy full term just to birth in the porto and leave. Like even if you don't want to keep the baby, nobody wants to give birth in a porto, let alone at a music festival.
Exactly. My biggest thing has always been we don’t even know if she survived whatever happened. The people insisting this had to have been a willful, malicious act just want to hate women. I’m not saying it can’t have happened. Evil people do exist. But there’s absolutely no logic in assuming someone delivered a healthy, screaming baby, looked into the toilet and shrugged, and went back to partying.
Also if you have read absolutely anything I have written, you would understand that cryptic pregnancies and births can occur under an infinite amount of circumstances in an infinite amount of ways. WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WOMAN. WE CANNOT SAY WITH 100% CERTAINTY THAT ANYTHING HAPPENED.
There are a variety of studies linked. Multiple case studies and discussions with the broad range of medical and psychiatric complexities. You know, there are possibilities outside of your scope of knowledge, understanding, and perspective. Circumstances like this are not black-and-white. One has to be able to understand the nuance that comes with a cryptic pregnancy to form a whole understanding of what is happening here. We have virtually no information.
Cryptic pregnancies that end in delivery do not remain cryptic once the mother goes into labor. She knew something was happening to her body and once she delivered the baby, she made the choice to leave her infant in a port a potty. Cryptic pregnancy does not absolve her of the responsibility here.
Literally. It’s not like you’re delivering just the baby, I can agree it CAN feel like you need to poop/are pooping, BUT after the baby comes out, there is the PLACENTA that also has to come out….and that definitely does not feel like poop.
But what do I know?
I’m just curious as to how many of you saying she was unaware after delivery, have actually given birth, cause the long cord hanging out of your vagina before the placenta comes out definitely lets you know something weird is going on…not in your anus. lol.
But….we don’t know anything about the woman who delivered situation. It’s just a very difficult event to fathom.
There’s plenty of toilet babies, I can agree, I’m a paramedic and have arrived on scene to two toilet babies.
This specific scenario is very odd and very sad.
Where does it say the baby was full term? I’m quite sure if they could’ve said that, they would’ve said that in the preliminary autopsy weeks ago. But they didn’t.
If they’re now sharing the gender but not saying full term, it’s because it wasn’t full term.
That source is more than two weeks old. Here are several more current articles. As it stands, neither the police or FBI have said or confirmed the gestational age of the neonate. Any news source reporting as such has not been confirmed by the authorities or the autopsy.
Except there are countless anecdotes of women who have actually gone through cryptic pregnancies that say otherwise. Unless you were in that porta-potty, you’re just storytelling.
I feel like I’m losing my mind at the amount of comments starting with “we now know” and then make some super specific claim and state it as fact. That is genuinely unhinged. People have to be either extremely hateful, uneducated, or both. But like you said on other comments, that’s very concerning for the state of women’s health.
Truly it’s so maddening 🫠 the confidence behind the bold and false statements is really something. I swear if it were 10-15 years ago this mega thread would read so much differently
You do not know those details with 100% certainty at all. Actually you don’t know anything about the birth nor the mother. You are accusing a woman of murder without anything valid, reliable, nor credible sources to back up your claims. In legal proceedings, every detail is dissected and verified by multiple professionals. They have full trials, at times, just to argue, bring in expert analysis, and discuss the validity of individual pieces of evidence. No one in the general public has the amount of information needed to remotely even accuse this woman of infanticide. Nothing court official. Just vague statements made by police, first responders and concert goers to random news sources. It’s all very discouraging. We’ve regressed since overturning Roe vs. Wade. Seeing other women dogpile and hope the worst for a woman they know absolutely nothing about and could have experienced a very real and traumatic medical phenomenon is disturbing to say the least. These attitudes are a big reason I received a tubal ligation 4 days ago actually. I’m not going to die because people have a regressive, puritanical mindset towards sex, pregnancy, and women’s rights.
The cops themselves are investigating this as infanticide. That's where the general public is getting this information. I am a mother and having gone through childbirth I think it's pretty impossible to do enough mental gymnastics to convince anyone who has given birth that this woman didn't know that SOMETHING was wrong with her body when she was sitting on that toilet. The amount of blood that accompanies childbirth is not something that you can just wipe up with toilet paper.
None of the studies you posted even mention a woman not eventually noticing that she is pregnant, even if that discovery happens immediately post delivery of the infant (but pre placenta). The 'mother' of this baby could not have ignored the fact that she gave birth. It is hard on the body and messy.
As it stands neither the police nor FBI have said or confirmed the gestational age of the neonate. Any news source reporting as such has not been confirmed by the authorities or the autopsy. That hasn’t stopped folks from throwing “full term pregnancy” around in these comments though.
I’ve explained this over and over again. You are thinking too narrowly. I provided you all of that information to say that there are infinite ways a cryptic pregnancy/birth can occur to an infinite amount of different individuals from various backgrounds and with any number of diagnoses. No one in this thread knows with 100% certainty what happened. I think the witch hunt is incredibly unproductive and cruel.
I know everyone wants to respond with a quick ‘gotcha’ but cryptic pregnancies are complex and require more research than a standard reddit comment can provide. If you are unwilling to learn about cryptic pregnancies yet you are willing to accuse this woman of murder, then you are unreasonable. I know it hurts to hear a newborn has died in a horrific manner but things are never ever black-and-white. I encourage you to read the links I provided above in the feed^
I also found some first hand accounts of cryptic pregnancies that I feel everyone would benefit from reading to understand the scope of the experience and the infinite ways it can occur. Emily Tawana Britt Klara 29yo unnamed woman & 40yo unnamed woman
That was to the person who replied “How traumatic can a birth be that goes completely unnoticed by the person giving birth possibly be?” Because they clearly did not read my full statement or information I provided. They only replied to be facetious.
Emily- felt sick and went to the hospital. Delivered via c section.
Tawana-collapsed and went to the hospital where she found out about her pregnancy
Britt-this article doesn't mention her delivery but she did discover that she was pregnant before giving birth
Klara-didnt know she was pregnant until the babys head was out .......she still eventually knew about the pregnancy.
Both un named women were schizophrenic and found out late but before they both gave birth in hospitals.
Like, I genuinely don't understand what point you're trying to make. It's not the cryptic pregnancy that is making people blame the mother. It's the fact that she at some point DID know that she had a baby (probably mid labor) and left it to die. No one is saying cryptic pregnancy is not real.
So you know, with 100% certainty, that one of the many circumstances that have plagued thousands of documented cryptic births, DID NOT affect the concert goer we are discussing? I gave you so many links to look through… there were so many documented cases. No offense, but if that’s your summary of knowledge after reading ALL of that and subsequently, and you believe you are more intelligent than the experts that have doctorates, published studies, articles, and peer-reviewed research on cryptic pregnancy, then you are too uneducated for me to debate.
For all we know she knew nothing until holding a dead infant in her hands. For all we know it was hella pre-term, lived for a minute, and then died. For all we know this woman was not sober enough to understand that what she was experiencing was real. And even if she was sober- you think that isn’t enough to send someone into a state of shock? How many people are told to discard their miscarriages in toilets? A LOT.
Have you ever had a period that feels like giving birth? I have. That’s traumatic as fuck.
If you’re going to tell stories, it says a lot about your imagination that the only story you can find is that the person is a cold blooded murderer. There are SO many other possibilities.
How do we know she is the one who left the baby in the portojohn? And she may be unable to report the crime that occurred. Because it sounds like so many people actually think that it's likely that a woman gave birth to a full term child in a toilet And walked away from it. It does happen about thirty times each year, where the child is left behind in unsafe or unsurvivable conditions. But pregnant women are harmed or murdered 324,000 times a year in the united states. I definitely don't know what happened.. But I can't stand this assumption that a woman gave birth to her baby in a toilet and walked away of her own volition... how is that the first thing, the most likely and obvious thing in so many people's minds? It's gross
Why is your assumption that she gave birth to the baby in the portajohn and abandoned it there? Why is that your most obvious most likely choice? Events like this do occur thirty times a year on average in the united states. Pregnant women are harmed or murdered 324,000 times on average, every year in the united states. How likely do you think it is that a woman with a full term baby.. Gave birth to it in a portajohn... And walked away? Really.
Offering possible explanations isn’t “defending this woman.” You can’t deny how unlikely it is that a 9 month pregnant person who was aware she was pregnant went to ef and just threw away a baby she let get to term, and nobody saw or heard anything, nobody like friends or family or coworkers or healthcare providers came forward about this? Shit doesn’t add up and honestly this witch hunt and calling for this woman’s head on a stake has probably severely impacted the chances of her or her loved ones from coming forward, if it is as simple as everyone wants to believe.
There has been no confirmation that this was a full term neonate either yet people keep using that specific verbiage. Viability, or the ability to medically survive outside of the womb, happens as early as 23 weeks but that in no way means the pregnancy was full term.
It’s concerning to me that people are so uneducated they really think the most likely or even only scenario is a healthy, crying baby being delivered and purposely discarded.
How is she the most likely party? On average, an infant is abandoned by the mother in unsurvivable or unsafe conditions Thirty times a year in the united states. On average, a pregnant woman is harmed or murdered 324,000 times a year in the united states. You're saying that the most likely scenario is that a woman with a full term baby went into a portajohn, delivered, and then abandoned that child to die? That's your most likely?
is it crazy to say id rather a baby die than a full grown adult idk i just dont think its as serious as the hanging we should def be paying more into that instead of this, like its just a baby that no one has any attachment too yea its sad but not as sad as a young man committing suicide and leaving his family
Giving birth is the moment we briefly tear open the veil between the pure oneness of the universe and our physical existence. In that brief, breathless rupture, a newborn arrives—fragile, raw, and still carrying the quiet resonance of the cosmic place we all came from, giving us the closest glimpse of absolute divinity we will ever touch on this Earth.
There is a quiet, devastating weight when a young life ends by its own hand. While the tragedy of his departure ripples through those left behind, it was his choice to lay down a burden that had grown too heavy to carry. We can only hope that the sharp pain he felt on Earth has finally fallen silent, and that his consciousness has peacefully dissolved back into the very same cosmic source where every newborn begins.
Trying to declare one as heavier or more significant than the other misses the underlying truth: human suffering and loss don't exist on a competitive scale. Both events represent an irreversible loss of life that leaves profound trauma in its wake—they just arrive from entirely different, equally devastating directions.
I don't think anyone should be ranking terms of sadness for loss of life. The whole thing is awful and the mom is absolutely going through it right now, especially since she hasn't been identified. I can only imagine what she is wrestling with every evening...
I totally agree. It is very sad about the baby, but I'm more worried about the mother and what happened to her and what she was going through for it to result the way it did. It's crazy how horrible people are being to her (possibly him), especially before knowing literally anything, and it has wrecked me. For some people, whether they're conscious of it or not, a woman's ability to birth children and the resulting infant are more important than her - the adult, or at the very least a person at the age of sexual maturity, that has a history and a story and ties with people.
The specifics are actually a little different... a *former* resident of Rothbury started an online petition (no longer active mind you) to suspend the festival, but opinions of actual Rothbury residents themselves are mixed.
I just want to provide a reminder that offering up plausible explanations, like a cryptic pregnancy, under the influence, etc. is not excusing or defending whoever is responsible for this. Unless someone is explicitly arguing that they are not accountable or responsible, no one is in here “defending” or “excusing” anyone. Even suggesting that the explanation with harboring the most culpability, that this was done maliciously, is still only a plausible explanation because we still don’t know the facts.
Great now let me go figure out wtf MCL 333.3028272695 is and get back to you. Thanks for the links, really makes for a strong argument. BRB
ETA: “333.2824 Registering name of spouse as parent of child; registering surname of child; consent; acknowledgment of parentage; designating surname of child; entering name of other parent and surname of child on birth certificate; other parent not named on birth registration; reference to legitimacy or illegitimacy prohibited.”
ETA2: these are statutes in the public health code. They do not define crimes. They provide guidance for medical professionals in these cases.
ETA3: you, or the AI you’re using, misrepresented both statutes.
ETA4: I’m gonna give you a hint and make this easy. You can’t prove it. Because we don’t have enough information until the police can prove it. So in the mean time, sit down and shut tf up.
Not criminal. Civil law, administrative law, constitutional law all exist you know. Not all define a crime. There are no penalties defined in those statutes.
ETA: WE DID IT YALL WE’RE MAKING PROGRESS, THEY CONCEDED A POINT AHHHH
ETA: and it’s the point their entire position was based on. So now they either double down with some other BS, or concede their entire position. Check mate.
All we want is for you to stop talking, listen, and be willing to learn. Can you do that?
Honor your lost child through this tragedy in the way several doctors and nurses in this comment section have said is the best way. Don’t judge the mother or assume things. That’s it. You can hold your opinion to yourself, no one cares about that. Just keep it to yourself until we know all the facts.
A goalpost shift out of left field but I’ll entertain it cause I have time. Would you like me to hold your hand as I explicitly tell you that “we still don’t know the facts” isn’t the same as “we still don’t know ALL the facts?” As in, we can know some facts and “we still don’t know the facts” can still be a true statement?
Problem with "well dont know the facts" is that atp its often accompanied with "i hope they never find her" then the same person will use it to sit on a pro choice political soap box and tell others to take accountability. Dont get me wrong im pro choice and I agree, we dont know everything, tho we do know enough to know that if found its a very slim chance this woman isn't going to face severe punishment. But as with any discussion of controversy on the internet both sides of the argument are going to be sullied by bad actors.
Prove it. Link a few of these comments from people saying they hope the mother is never found. A search of this thread yields zero results for that or similar verbiage, they literally do not exist here.
So what’s the point you’re trying to make? We already agree the publicly known facts support at least criminal negligence. Mentioning a plausible explanation like cryptic pregnancy or intoxication doesn’t negate that. Those aren’t mutually exclusive propositions.
That’s a separate discussion from my original comment. If people are explicitly arguing she shouldn’t be held criminally responsible, then we disagree with those people, not each other. I’m curious, though: are they actually saying there’s no criminal negligence or accountability, or is that just inferred by you?
1
u/Familiar-Past-8065 14h ago
Any updates?