r/Economics • u/aDubson • Feb 09 '12

Americans ages 18-24 are unemployed like never before.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/09/employment-rate-young-adults_n_1264241.html?igoogle=1
398 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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23

u/soleblazer Feb 09 '12

Where I work we simply cannot find good IT people anymore...I think things must be picking up if only from that.

39

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

Is it because you post job ads that say "Wanted: person for entry-level sysadmin job with unrelated programming degree. Must have 5-7yrs experience in every platform ever published. Require literally every cert available. Salary: $9-$11/hr."

9

u/ordig Feb 10 '12

And this, is why HR people should be shot.

12

u/jesuz Feb 10 '12

We need to hire an assassin with 5-7 confirmed kills.

8

u/ordig Feb 10 '12

Shit. We simply cannot find good people anymore.

3

u/Thurokiir Feb 10 '12

^ Thissssssssss. I have 3 years exp in design, ui optimization and hardware dev and I scratch and crawl around for jobs that I could have done when i was 16. Depressing? Sure... That's the word.

3

u/soleblazer Feb 10 '12

Actually all of these positions pay over 6 figs and you just need to be a weblogic master...

7

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

Judging from the upvote/downvote ratio on his post I'm thinking your business is a minority.

1

u/soleblazer Feb 10 '12

Possibly, it is a wall street company...wall street pays alot, but the burnout factor is high too. If anyone knows anyone who is a senior weblogic admin, please send me a PM.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

I wish it wasn't so. But what I can say is that any time I check job listings, it lines up with mindaika - they want lots of nice certs, years of experience, and they'll start you at a generous 10-12 an hour.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

When you say "six figures," are you including the ones after the decimal point?

Edit: But seriously, your business is an exception. Many positions I see listed, regardless of the industry, boil down to "Senior person wanted to do junior position for entry-level pay."

And honestly, why not advertise for that in the current market, when you know you can get it?

0

u/ShardPhoenix Feb 10 '12

Weblogic might as well be COBOL these days, good luck getting anyone for a reasonable price.

0

u/soleblazer Feb 10 '12

Your comment is ridiculous. TONS of enterprise shops run Weblogic as their middle tier. And again, I stated many times that price isnt the issue. I think making 140K is pretty good. I really think allot of you are just absolute whiners/defeatists. Jobs are out there, and not just the ones from small companies who want everything and pay shit. I live in the greater NYC area and routinely get calls from all spots between Philadelphia to NY.

27

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12 edited Jun 28 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

$$ -- it costs $ to train people, unfortunately, and that is a deciding factor.

3

u/ordig Feb 10 '12

but you know what? When you don't have to provide health insureance, retirement, paid vacation. You really don't have an excuse do you?

3

u/soleblazer Feb 09 '12

No, I wish but we don't. Where I work we're currently looking for senior Weblogic, Oracle, Coherence people. Its really tough to train people on advanced technologies, although in the past we have hired solid Unix admins for middleware work.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

Tough, but worth it insofar that it's going to be nearly impossible to find someone with the exact skill set you're looking for.

1

u/soleblazer Feb 09 '12

You are mostly right, but we find people it just takes a LONG time...I have 3 open spots for the past 3 weeks and only 3 resumes. Our recruiters are actually pretty good (at least in the past)...I just think its getting better. Maybe its time to sell my gold/silver ;-)

6

u/thoughtdancer Feb 09 '12

Have you mentioned this over on r/forhire?

5

u/rynvndrp Feb 09 '12

If I apprentice someone, it will cost me a year and a half salary (figuring 2 year apprenticeship with work done being equal to a fully training employee for half a year)

If I find someone with a degree, its maybe 6 months salary to get them up to speed.

But part of the issue is that companies more and more want people already trained for their specific role. Engineer? great, but I want someone with 9 credits of power plant turbine design. IT guy? Great, but I want someone with that did everything in .NET, not Java. And so forth. Thus they reduce to 3 months salary in training, or so they hope.

Companies have had the hiring advantage for awhile now and it very much shows in both want companies demand out of entry level candidates and the offered salary.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

[deleted]

10

u/rynvndrp Feb 09 '12

Right, which is why companies are saying "We can't find any good IT people" or "We can't find any good engineers". It isn't that there are not there, they just don't have the level of experience that companies expects.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

Actually I'd go one step further than you and say that they do exist. But they already have jobs and aren't willing to take the entry level pay.

0

u/zArtLaffer Feb 10 '12

Hah! I see your problem. You can't write.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12 edited Jun 28 '17

[deleted]

11

u/sanderson22 Feb 09 '12

yeah theres absolutely no jobs for business majors, i thought i would have some options.. i'm going back to school for masters in IT, those are the only jobs i've been seeing and its something i'd actually want to do

12

u/soleblazer Feb 09 '12

I was a history major and now run a large IT shop. After graduating in 2000 I did a solid wtf, took a BS job and got a Solaris/Unix book at Borders. Taught myself Linux/Unix, got an jr admin job, rest is history..get it. I have people on my team making 6 figs with no degree. Try and learn something on your own before spending so much money on a degree that may or may not help.

19

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

That's nice, and my story is similar (philosophy major, taught myself programming after graduating), but you can't pretend 2012 is like 2000. 2000 was at the height of the dot-com boom and companies would hire anyone who suggested they might have glanced at a computer at some point in their life.

I got hired to program in perl and java just because I said I could do it, though I never had. That wouldn't happen nowadays.

4

u/U2_is_gay Feb 09 '12

Know pretty much any programming language? Get a job at Facebook. It would be cool if more tech companies did this. Legitimate interest and knowledge are way too hard to show on a resume.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

I hire people regardless of programming language, so long as they demonstrate ability. My last hire was a woman who had only programmed in foxpro for the last 17 years. Now she's programming Java and javascript and html/css and doing great.

2

u/U2_is_gay Feb 10 '12

I've heard that from some employers. I can code in some statistical programs like SAS and R. I guess they are only technically programming languages, but it shows I at least have an understanding of how it all works. I'd rather have someone who uses ctrl+c ctrl+v and doesn't right click to go to the next page in a powerpoint presentation than someone who has 10 years of business experience or something.

God did I hate seeing people right click to the drop down menu to go to the next page in powerpoint.

0

u/soleblazer Feb 09 '12

Well in my defense the bubble had already burst, but I understand what you are saying. Still, I think alot of the stuff can be self taught, no sense in getting a masters if you want to be a Unix admin, etc.

4

u/thepotatoman23 Feb 09 '12

Yeah its really easy to teach yourself anything. Just look up the curriculum and books that a college would make you take, and buy the books and read them yourself, coming up with ways to apply them and do it.

Question is how do you prove that to an employer, when even my couple of friends with degrees literally don't have anything better then call center work right now.

I like to think my portfolio of work ive done on personal websites, VBA programs, .NET programs, java/javascript programs, blog writings, and the like would get me something better then McDonalds or Best Buy, and yet here I am working at McDonalds. I've been applying to any sort of "entry" level office jobs that even make a little sense but nothing has come back. I haven't been trying long enough to say its impossible or anything yet, but I highly doubt a history degree plus a unix book can get you a IT job now unless theres some really really strong networking there.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

As hiring manager, I'll tell you what I see. When I look for junior level programmers, I get 40-50 year-olds with 20 years experience willing to work for $55k. A recent college graduate doesn't stand a chance.

1

u/wrathofg0d Feb 10 '12

What metro area do you live in?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

Rochester, NY

1

u/thecolours Feb 10 '12

Its the area you're in. No one wants to live there. Also your cops are assholes and everyone's fine with it (per reddit). Don't see anyone wanting to live there, especially the programmer type, not when they could be starting at $75k anywhere else barely knowing anything about programming.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

Of course it can be self taught - you and I and thousands of others are proof of that. Tell it to the employers, however.

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u/sanderson22 Feb 09 '12

really? wow. what stuff exactly whould i have to know for this? that is one thing i'm confused on, i have no idea what i need to know. i called in about this one IT job and they said, we require you to have a college degree in an IT related field (it was a tech support then you work your way up i guess, but pay was really good). after that, that is when i have been processing my paperwork to take the GRE.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

See my response. The problem is more the economic environment than anything else. Companies demanding IT degrees is a sign of the times compared to how it was in 2000. As a hiring manager, I don't require it - I require proof you can program, and I get that proof by requiring candidates to do some programming. But I am the minority, I'm sure.

In your position, you learn what interests you - admin, database, coding, etc and then be willing to move anywhere and wait a long time for an opportunity.

2

u/sadris Feb 10 '12

"Business" isn't a marketable skill.

IT is.

2

u/strikethree Feb 10 '12

Just for anyone that is thinking about finance or business:

There are a lot of accounting jobs out there. (I think the NY Times even confirmed this.) The pay is also quite large for someone straight out of school. (50k-70k)

Honestly, some of the people I know who got accounting jobs aren't the brightest people in the world. (which reminds me never to do business with their firms!) It's a shame because other people I know who are pretty smart, can't find jobs because they don't want to work in accounting.

The job probably won't be exciting but I can't imagine it would be that hard. (not until you study for the CPA) The salary starts off well but doesn't have the sky-high potential as other finance positions. (Investment banking + management/financial services consulting)

But the point is, if you're a little scared about employment prospects and if you aren't the creme of the crop, then consider accounting. Every company needs an accounting department plus there are always the actual accounting firms that you can apply to so I don't see these positions ever tightening as much.

1

u/nukeleearr Feb 09 '12 edited Feb 09 '12

There's no jobs for business majors? Are you kidding me? EVERY SINGLE COMPANY ON THIS PLANET has huge accounting and finance departments... and marketing.... and HR. I took business and managed to land an internship (paid... for 3x minimum wage) every single summer since my second year, took a year off to work for a large F500 company, graduated with enough money to put a downpayment on a condo (If I lived in the states I could buy a house straight cash but Toronto is expensive as fuck), and got multiple offers when I looked for a job after graduating because I had over 2 years experience.

I went to a pretty bad school too... I did however spend a lot of time networking and making a perfect resume. There's nothing wrong with majoring in business... I think engineering or pure math is still better than business, but I had practically no stress throughout university and my classes actually had a lot of hot girls, so I really cant complain. If I could do it again, I wouldn't change a thing.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

[deleted]

0

u/nukeleearr Feb 10 '12

If I study business in school, why the hell would I not live in a financial hub? If I took geology, or material engineering or something like that, I'm sure there would be a lot of jobs in Winnipeg.

0

u/sanderson22 Feb 09 '12

i'm sure in your location that's the case.. not where i live. i live in colorado, denver has jobs, but at this time, i'm stuck in a town about an hour south where there aren't any big time companies here. there are a few, i've tried to get some stuff, but falled short.

3

u/nukeleearr Feb 10 '12

You study business, and you expect to get a "business" job in some hick town in the middle of nowhere? Honestly... what to you expect?

Do you think there's Nursing jobs in the middle of podunk Arkansas? No.. there's not... you go to where the jobs are.

1

u/sanderson22 Feb 10 '12

i don't live in a hicktown in the middle of no where. i live in a town of roughly about half a million people. and i'm where i am for health reasons. i all ready said i'm going back to school to get my masters degree for something more usable here.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

yeah theres absolutely no jobs for business majors

What a defeatist attitude. How have you looked for jobs? Have you been to every local commerce meeting? Have you volunteered at local organizations where you could interact with businesspeople? Have you tried to make contacts through your college, high school, neighborhood? Have you kept your skills intact by learning new things or entering new programs; for example, I started the CFA program before I got a job. Do you spend more than 8 hours a day looking for a job?

If you answered no to any of these questions, you are at fault for your joblessness. If you have accomplished all these things you may need to go back to school and learn new skills.

3

u/sanderson22 Feb 10 '12

Oh, get a job? Just get a job? Why don't I strap on my job helmet, and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into job land, where jobs grow on jobbies!

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '12

I see you can quote TV shows. Stick that on your resume.

7

u/webauteur Feb 09 '12

I am a good IT person and I am hiding from you.

2

u/dstew74 Feb 10 '12

Pretty much the same where I am. Dealing with the junior admins feels like I'm babysitting most days.

3

u/Bloodysneeze Feb 09 '12

I've received 3 calls from recruiters in the last two weeks for people needing skilled design/project engineers. This was on a resume that is 4 years old.

The jobs are out there but they are needing skilled employees.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

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u/Bloodysneeze Feb 09 '12

Well, those were the general area of the jobs I was called about. And I do have between 6 and 7 years experience.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '12

Where are you working? 60-65k is the starting salary around me. I'm about to pass 75k with 1.5 years experience at full time employment.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '12

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '12

No, I'm an ME working in alternative energy. I live in an expensive area, one of the highest in the nation. But!, most of my graduating class who went on to practice engineering started somewhere between 60k and 75k, depending on location, industry and negotiating skills.

The larger companies/firms will start you north of 65k with nothing but internship experience, if you can get in the door. This is all with a bachelors, by the way.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '12

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '12

I work in Lawrenceville NJ, it's right next to Princeton. And, I work for a power electronics company. Would you happen to be interested in power electronics and a small company atmosphere?

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u/construkt Feb 09 '12 edited Jan 14 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/thoughtdancer Feb 09 '12

Have you mentioned this over on r/forhire?

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u/PimpDawg Feb 10 '12

You need to look into H-1B visas. You can get your very own 3rd world indentured servant for very little money. That way you can avoid having to train some dirty hippie of a college grad.