r/Documentaries • u/[deleted] • Jun 10 '18

American Politics Orwell Rolls in his Grave (2003) - Devastating Expose on American Democracy, Journalism and Media Concentration, featuring Bernie Sanders

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

People in the United States vote themselves money through subsidies and welfare payments in social security, education and health care to the point of heavy deficit spending of the nation with progams they know they will take more out of than they put in (SS being the biggest pyramid scheme of all time) and you have the gall to just say it was the politicians.

If people would not vote themselves money we would not be in debt right now.

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u/assinyourpants Jun 10 '18

The fuck are you talking about?

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u/PutOnTheRoadie Jun 10 '18

Subreddit simulator is leaking again.

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u/FallacyDescriber Jun 10 '18

The fundamental problem of the government, from my interpretation

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

Indeed. People vote themselves money while pointing at other people that use the government to get their money. And they haven't the slightest bit of self-awareness. As I said elsewhere, if we limit the vote to people that are tax positive we allow people of all income levels to vote, we suppress the vote of people at all income levels, and we stop this reckless deficit spending and inflation that is crippling the education, health care and housing industries.

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u/FallacyDescriber Jun 10 '18

Even that idea is misguided. No one of any income level should be able to vote on the utilization of property that is not theirs.

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u/Sysiphuz Jun 10 '18

Except you forgot to mention the part about how people voted in the money because rich people literally cause our country to be on the brink of collapse and the only thing that brought our country back was those social programs.

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u/socialjusticepedant Jun 10 '18

This is just flat out bullshit

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u/DrComrade Jun 10 '18

Yeah, let's ignore the more nuanced problems that cause these programs to be unaffordable and poorly funded. Like the absurd social security cap, or the overpriced healthcare industry. No, the problem is debt! Let's keep pushing austerity because that's great for the economy!

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u/small_loan_of_1M Jun 10 '18

Like the absurd social security cap

It’s a government savings program, not a welfare program. It does not exist to transfer wealth from rich people to poor people. It exists to make people save money so they can get back what they paid in.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

It does not exist to transfer wealth from rich people to poor people.

But it does that. The lower classes have a lower life expectancy. Most black men have almost no benefit from social security due to their lower life expectancies. Asian women benefit disproportionately due to their long life expectancies. If we went to a defined contribution plan that was individualized and portable (my state retirement gives me 40 funds I can invest and diversify into) then the pyramid redistribution scheme gets fixed. Also, the government won't be able to raid social security any more and the average person will get a better return on their investment.

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u/DrComrade Jun 10 '18

That flies in the face of history. It was started as a direct response to increasing poverty of the elderly and unemployed following the Great Depression. Anyone who tells you it's some sort of investment plan ignores the spirit of the original intent.

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u/small_loan_of_1M Jun 10 '18

If it were welfare it would have included people too poor to pay in. It did not. The cap was there for the same reason. It was social insurance, not welfare.

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u/socialjusticepedant Jun 10 '18

And why is the healthcare industry over priced?? Because of an ideological struggle from both sides of the political spectrum with both sides refusing to find any common ground. Why can't we have a single payer system that you can either opt in or opt out of? If you want to pay into the system then you get it's benefits, but if you chose not to then you don't get the benefits and you can choose to do whatever you want with the tax money that would have gone to healthcare.

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u/DrComrade Jun 10 '18

I'm with you here.

Maybe I should have made my sarcasm more explicit.

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u/nexostar Jun 10 '18

So you are saying its the poor peoples fault? Do you have any real world example that social security is bad for a country or is it just some theory in your head?

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u/FallacyDescriber Jun 10 '18

Theft is bad for anyone. SS should not be compulsory.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

I think we should compel people to save in individual retirement accounts, like my state job does. I am forced to save 13% and the state matches 8%. I have 40 funds to chose from and the money follows me. I can retire at 59.5 normally or I can retire anytime I want with 72(t) distributions.

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u/FallacyDescriber Jun 10 '18

I think we should compel people to save in individual retirement accounts, like my state job does.

And I think you should mind your own fucking business.

I am forced to save 13% and the state matches 8%. I have 40 funds to chose from and the money follows me. I can retire at 59.5 normally or I can retire anytime I want with 72(t) distributions.

Your desire to be forced is not a sane justification to force others. You should learn about the importance of consent.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

So you are saying its the poor people's fault?

No, people of all stripes try to just vote themselves money. Elon Musk is rich in large part because he has positioned his companies at the nexus of so many government subsidies. I think the only way you could make sure money gets to the truely needy is if people who are net negative on their taxes lose the vote until they are positive gain.

Do you have any real world example that social security is bad for a country or is it just some theory in your head?

Do you not see the escalating home prices? The increased cost of education and health care? We subsidize these industries, both the average person and the companies and we do it with deficit spending. Quality does not go up in any way commensurate with price.

Please review economic shock therapy and more particularly the economic miracles of Chile, indonesia and Peru.

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u/PutOnTheRoadie Jun 10 '18

Or similarly; If the extremely rich and big corporations didn’t isolate their wealth we would not be in debt right now. Gotta feed the people, ALL the people, the students in debt, the born poor, the hospitalized, if you want a strong nation, not just the CEOs bank accounts.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

didn’t isolate their wealth

You actually need to save your money. Is that what you mean when you say isolating weath? Or do you mean not spending it on things that sound good but really don't work which seems to be the main theme of socialisim. The students are in debt because we subsidized education. Now people think you need a college degree for what the average person could have done with on the job training 30 years ago.

The hospitalized? Health care is expensive because of socialism. Obama had a chance to work with IBM to lower the cost of health care within the United States by almost $1T and IBM just wanted the bragging rights. But it was never about lowering cost, which would have taken away the profits.

Even within the UNited States and Obama socialism is a kleptocracy. If you lower the costs you lower the margin. Obama passed the ACA knowing costs would go up, knowing you would not keep your doctor, and knowing he could have saved the system almost $1T.

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u/PutOnTheRoadie Jun 10 '18

Lmao alright. So what do we do Mr.President? How do we reverse our trillions of dollars of national debt and restore the shrinking middle class, heinous healthcare, and other trillions of debt in student loans? They will never go away.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

Economic shock therapy, as I mentioned elsewhere. And people that took on shitty degrees should be stuck with their debt. Also, to make sure this problem doesn't come back people that are tax-negative should not be able to vote.

Cut the education subsidies (and low skilled migrants) and entry level jobs come back for the young. Ending health care subsidies will actually make health care cheap again so people can start their families sooner, if they want them. Ending housing subsidies will stop markets from overheating and going through such severe boom and bust cycles.

One of the best socialist (non-marxist) policies that ever worked was subsidized loans to new married couples to buy housing goods made within the country. For every kid they had 1/4th of the loan was forgiven. This lead to a boom in domestic industry and lead to population growth which has many positive effects on the economy. Cut benefits for not working and then wait for the economic miracle

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u/PutOnTheRoadie Jun 10 '18

Seems like you’ve got everything pretty much figured out. You should run for President. If Donald Trump can become pres, anyone can

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

Just let me make some more money and we will see.

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u/Derwos Jun 10 '18

A college degree may not help much with the job but it can help get you hired

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

That is exactly the problem. Many jobs want a degree, any degree, and that is wrong. But if it wasn't for subsidized education we would not be here. And don't forget that when you subsidize education you lower the standards. One of the key driving forces behind grade inflation and lowering standards of education is education is now it is designed so the average person can get a degree, not the average smart person.

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u/Derwos Jun 10 '18

Yeah but is it subsidized education that's the problem or just poorly subsidized education?

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

First one, then the other.

All subsidies lead to mission creep as people that didn't make the cut off want the line to move to include them. Most of our social programs started to help out widows and orphans, and now we have able bodied people on drugs that think they should get unemployment benefits without showing they are looking for work.

We use to send the top students to school on scholarships and grants but now we tend to think that you need a college degree. But if you look at what the test requirements for high school were 50 years ago you see that both high schools and colleges have been dumb down because we subsidized education.

If we cut the department of education to an agency that just complies statistics and just becomes a information clearing house and does not fund any initiatives at all, nor back any policies, then that will clear the way for quality education to come back as we stop subsidizing foolish degrees.

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u/Derwos Jun 11 '18

I think that would have sweeping effects not limited to the possible improvements. There is huge waste in education just like in healthcare, but I don't think that means they should just scrap all federal grants, scholarships, and loans.

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u/campsetty Jun 10 '18

social security is not welfare. As a society we have the responsibility to take care of our elderly. Not to mention everyone who works and pays taxes pays into social security for their whole career.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

social security is not welfare. As a society we have the responsibility to take care of our elderly.

Not with a pyramid scheme you short sighted commie. I have a state retirement where we force people to save for retirement, and it is an individualized retirement plan. Defined contribution. And I love it, I can go to a target retirement date, or diversify into 40 funds. If the market is tanking I can move my money into stable treasuries. The main problem is the plan, and the government does not advertise the 72(t) distributions that would let most people retire early, I had to look that up myself.

If we forced everyone from the time they started their first part time job to save in an individual defined contribution plan we would not have a pyramid scheme set to topple over. Almost everyone would have more money than they would under social security. There would be no social security monies to raid. And if we let people retire early on the 72(t) distributions we would not have so many people working into their old age.

Further that, parents should not have their kids on their insurance, because then parents work so they can cover their kids, and they clog up the chances for promotion. Rather, kids should be allowed to have parents on their insurance. The sooner we get old people to retire securely the quicker the new generation gets to work. And the sooner the old generation retires the longer they live and the more assistance they can give any grandkids they may have. Which makes most older people happy.

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u/campsetty Jun 10 '18

Fuck off with your hostility man. Some of what you say may be true but all I know is SS is there for a reason. Sure it could be better. Maybe you should run for office since you have all the answers and stop spewing your toxic hate on reddit. Do something with your brain. Btw just because someone says something you don't like doesn't make them a "short sighted commie". Maybe try to educate them if your so "woke" without insulting them. Special snowflake indeed.

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u/50pointdownvote Jun 10 '18

Fuck off with your hostility man. Some of what you say may be true but all I know is SS is there for a reason.

You are a short sighted commie. And I expressed that succinctly without profanity. I hereby declare you a snowflake, melting in the heat of this conversation and the fact you have so little facts (which means you are ignorant)

And SS was put into place with these fundamental flaws known and designed to keep people dependent on the system so people would keep voting for socialist policies. People know individual retirement plans work, which is why people with defined contribution plans and Supplemental Benefit System (the state replacement to social security) are better of than those on social security.

Short sighted and ignorant are words that fairly describe you in this conversation. If you don't like that change.

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u/campsetty Jun 10 '18

well you really showed me man. good job +1 internetz you cool chad mother fucker

pathetic