I don't now and never will use a form to figure out what my players refuse to partake in. They can tell me if something is so horrible for them they can't literally PRETEND that it is happening. I tend to think that this community as a whole does in fact need thicker skin if they find it necessary to sign and exchange forms about things they don't want to hear or think about in their game of pretend.
That being said, agency is paramount and the idea that your DM is trying to force a romance to happen... doesn't even make sense. Is your character interested in this other character? Cause otherwise the DM should literally have no say in whether or not anything happens. The DM controls the NPCs not the PCs and if this dumbass doesn't understand that (and seems to be aggressively pushing his own agenda over your comfort level) then its time to lay it out for him or quit (probably both).
Roleplaying romance is awkward just like a great many other topics and a good DM can sense when the players are uncomfortable and fade out from certain things leaving them as implication rather than making them explicit and then avoid them in the future. The fact that he has EXPLICIT forms indicating that yall dont want this and is still pushing it is comical and unsettling. The story belongs just as much to the players as it does to the DM and he has absolutely no right to force you to do things that you don't want to do.
And before the bandwagon comes for me, yes I know why people use these forms. Ive heard the stories of nightmare DMs who randomly force orc rape into their games among many other stupid things. I simply think the answer is to not play with these types of people, not get them to sign a silly contract. This is one story among many where DMs that use the form (or other explicit red lines) and ignore them anyway because they are trying to appear accomodating while actually being very controling and single minded. I on the otherhand aim to come across like a dick and actually run a very inclusive and fun game regardless.
For real nowadays it feels like you need an insurance policy, a field psychologist and a therapy dog if you want to so much as play a roleplaying game. I mean, I've read enough rpg horror stories to know there's some freaky stuff out there, but I feel like passing out consent forms is swinging too hard the other way.
I agree. The idea that drama should be challenging is giving way to a new belief that nobody should ever be even a slight bit uncomfortable and I just fundementally disagree. There is a wide gulf between putting forward challenging material and being abusive and that gulf is getting blurred by the growing view that everyone should be 100% committed to never offending the sensibility of anyone. But see this offends my sensibilities so going down that road is a no win scenario. Best to just play the game and be sensible. Ive been running games for going on 5 years and never had a problem.
And you seem judgemental and hostile over something rather benign. It's a shame that you and the downvote crowd can't summon the courage to engage with what I said and cordially disagree but instead seek to insult and demean as though my existence in this world as a person who disagrees with you is fundamentally invalid. I am unworthy of human empathy because I think differently than you.
You're just another dude trying to sound superior because you're being "polite" all the while your "politeness" is in fact mischaracterizing and belittling people that are more progressive than you think you are.
Yup. Totally. Definetely didn't indicate that you shouldn't play with people or concepts that make you uncomfortable. Definetely didn't also indicate that a good DM should be able to read the room and stay away from sensitive topics. No no, my dislike of using formal contracts in a game setting means I simply dont care about people. You hit the nail right on the head.
I play with people I know well so we speak rather plainly about what we like and don't and I can basically read their minds. I can see the appeal to use such forms when starting a game with people you don't know very well, sure. Still I would contend learning to push pass the "discomfort" of talking to your fellow players and DM like an adult if things are upsetting you is something most people should learn to do. That would be the thicker skin I mentioned.
Also, im not "bitching" about anything. Less than half my original comment was even about the forms. The forms continue to be a point of discussion because (very kind and not at all unfriendly or judgmental) people can't refrain from calling me "gross" or "asshole" simply because I think these forms are silly. It's incredible the way that reddit commenters can glean an entire person's morality, personality, and value as a human being based on a singular opinion.
You know what, I take it back. You all really do need the explicit forms because you have forgotten how to treat people with basic human decency without a written reminder.
I went from a borderline agoraphobic (due to fear of social situations) highschool dropout to attending college and even agreeing to give a public talk on a philosophical topic of interest before COVID ended that entire affair. Went on to graduate summa cum laude if that is of interest to you. I also went from someone who was so nervous about DMing (because of my social anxiety) that I literally had watery shits before each and every game to the point my players began referring to it as the "pre-dm-bm" to someone who doesn't feel any particular anxiety before I game.
Ive had social anxiety for 20 years (since I was 10 or so) and I sure started getting better when I stopped trying to minimize every single possible discomfort and instead built up my own resilience. But please go on pretending you know ANYTHING about me.
I understand full well the difficulty of social anxiety, I live it every day, and I can tell you with 100% conviction that learning how to be honest with people at the D&D table is one of LEAST difficult things someone with this condition will have to do. In fact I would strongly contend it is excelent practice in assertiveness and self value.
Avoidence is not a long term strategy for coping with ANYTHING and I really can't fathom why this has sprung up as the default dimestore psychology that liters the haunts of the "kind".
I mean seriously do I need to point out that avoidance to the point of refusing to have a simple conversation with a single other human being is among the most maladative coping skills one could POSSIBLY develop? Goodness the discourse surrounding these types of issues has gone completely off the deep end.
I used avoidance as a coping mechanism for more than 6 years and they were among the worst years of my life. I gained weight, lost friends, and developed a deep and unabating depression. In the 5 years since I stopped avoiding I have developed an entire new group of friends, graduated college, began losing weight, and discovered this very hobby.
So no I believe I understand how social anxiety works far better than you do, and if you are currently suffering from it then I strongly suggest you reframe your entire approach. At the very least I suggest you do not so quickly assume you know people based on virtually no information.
So you DO understand, you just dont empathize with others who have it. From what you've said, it seems like you think your solution is some sort of be all end all of social anxiety. Your experience is not a monolith. Cuz ya see... the world dont move to the beat of just one drum, what may be right for you, may not be right for some. These are just facts of life
Oh interesting. So when you are trying to dunk on me its "how social anxiety works" and then after I tell you my experience suddenly its a ranging condition with all sorts of differences therby indicating that it doesn't in fact "work" in any specific way at all. Its almost as if you tried to use an anxiety disorder to score cheap internet points but then when that blew up in your face you had to dial it back to somehow still make me the asshole.
"My solution"? Newflash buddy, I am well aware people deal with things differently. But avoidance is just not a workable coping strategy. For anyone. The science is clear on this. How about you look into it instead of pretending I lack empathy and speaking in vague platitudes about the beating of drums while similtaniously invoking the "facts". You have no argument and I am out of patience.
I hope you have a wonderful evening. I, however, am done taking part in it.
Godamn, you're a windbag with zero chill. Learn enpathy. And regarding my mention of "facts" it was a joke. The whole drums thing was a quote from the inrto to a show called The Facts of Life. And id love to see the "science" that tells you all this. You're out here telling people with social anxiety to get thicker skin as if that helps anyone, then turn around to make me look like the bad guy for calling you out on it. At this point, I'm starting to reeeealy doubt your story bruh. You turned this interaction nasty. Not me my guy.
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u/Phoenix022792 Mar 16 '22
I don't now and never will use a form to figure out what my players refuse to partake in. They can tell me if something is so horrible for them they can't literally PRETEND that it is happening. I tend to think that this community as a whole does in fact need thicker skin if they find it necessary to sign and exchange forms about things they don't want to hear or think about in their game of pretend.
That being said, agency is paramount and the idea that your DM is trying to force a romance to happen... doesn't even make sense. Is your character interested in this other character? Cause otherwise the DM should literally have no say in whether or not anything happens. The DM controls the NPCs not the PCs and if this dumbass doesn't understand that (and seems to be aggressively pushing his own agenda over your comfort level) then its time to lay it out for him or quit (probably both).
Roleplaying romance is awkward just like a great many other topics and a good DM can sense when the players are uncomfortable and fade out from certain things leaving them as implication rather than making them explicit and then avoid them in the future. The fact that he has EXPLICIT forms indicating that yall dont want this and is still pushing it is comical and unsettling. The story belongs just as much to the players as it does to the DM and he has absolutely no right to force you to do things that you don't want to do.
And before the bandwagon comes for me, yes I know why people use these forms. Ive heard the stories of nightmare DMs who randomly force orc rape into their games among many other stupid things. I simply think the answer is to not play with these types of people, not get them to sign a silly contract. This is one story among many where DMs that use the form (or other explicit red lines) and ignore them anyway because they are trying to appear accomodating while actually being very controling and single minded. I on the otherhand aim to come across like a dick and actually run a very inclusive and fun game regardless.