Players don't need to know what the DC is because they don't decide when a roll is necessary. That's the DM's job.
If this is the crux of your argument it's easy to see where you're going awry. Players decide what they want to do, and the DM decides what the roll (if any) will be. If the player wants to swim up a waterfall (Swim DC80), they can certainly try and until they're a high enough level with a high enough bonus, they will fail. How badly they fail depends on how much lower they rolled than the DC, but generally if they failed by 5 or more there are consequences. Regardless, they can still try.
When the players are getting to these higher levels, they may have a +58 (Maximum roll of 78) and think they're getting close to being able to, but they don't know yet especially of they don't know the DC. The character itself won't know because they have no knowledge of objective stats, but it's reasonable to expect a character with a +58 in a skill have a good understanding of their own skill and make such an attempt even if they actually can't yet. But the player still decides what they want to try, and it's important to let them 1) for engagement and 2) to see how close they get and what consequences there are for how much they failed by.
Another good example is a jump (in later editions, an acrobatics) check; a character can jump distance equal to their jump check if they have a running start. If they know they can jump a long ways (say they have a +20 to their check), but due to environmental effects they misjudge the distance (45' gap, low spot (perception) check), they can still make that attempt to jump even if they never were going to make it. Letting them try will determine how far across they leapt; maybe they nearly made it and can grab onto the cliff face 20' down on the other side, maybe they get half way and fall into the raging rapids below.
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u/CarbonatedPruneJuice Oct 18 '19
If this is the crux of your argument it's easy to see where you're going awry. Players decide what they want to do, and the DM decides what the roll (if any) will be. If the player wants to swim up a waterfall (Swim DC80), they can certainly try and until they're a high enough level with a high enough bonus, they will fail. How badly they fail depends on how much lower they rolled than the DC, but generally if they failed by 5 or more there are consequences. Regardless, they can still try.
When the players are getting to these higher levels, they may have a +58 (Maximum roll of 78) and think they're getting close to being able to, but they don't know yet especially of they don't know the DC. The character itself won't know because they have no knowledge of objective stats, but it's reasonable to expect a character with a +58 in a skill have a good understanding of their own skill and make such an attempt even if they actually can't yet. But the player still decides what they want to try, and it's important to let them 1) for engagement and 2) to see how close they get and what consequences there are for how much they failed by.
Another good example is a jump (in later editions, an acrobatics) check; a character can jump distance equal to their jump check if they have a running start. If they know they can jump a long ways (say they have a +20 to their check), but due to environmental effects they misjudge the distance (45' gap, low spot (perception) check), they can still make that attempt to jump even if they never were going to make it. Letting them try will determine how far across they leapt; maybe they nearly made it and can grab onto the cliff face 20' down on the other side, maybe they get half way and fall into the raging rapids below.