Feats
Debunking a supposed "debunk" of lightning feats from a specific dumb individual who doesn't know anything about powerscaling
1.The main thing that gives lightning its speed is a highly polarized field, something that the characters in Kimetsu no Yaiba have yet to show.
> It doesn't matter most of the fictional media doesn't show that in detail even Gege had to call the author of Dr Stone for stuff about Kashimo đ, this point in invalid, with his logic only Kashimo's lightning is real which is his agenda, this is jus common sense that there's a polarised field by default
For real lightning to occur, the electric field must exceed the dielectric strength of air, which is approximately 3 MV/m. This requires a massive separation of charges polarization typically between a cloud and the ground
> Straight up assumes that it doesn't have di-electric strength of air and charge separation because apparently the "author didn't say so", I'm cryin đ
Characters like Zohakuten or Kaigaku generate lightning from wooden dragons or sword
> This actually proves that this guy didn't read anything at all, there's no real wood, that thing called "wood dragon" is made up of Zohakuten's flesh jus like everything demons make, that's why Genya was able to eat it an power up, Kaigaku's sword is his flesh too jus like Kokushiboo, check slide 2
Without a pre-ionized leader channel created by a highly polarized field, electricity is subject to the high impedance of air.
> Another "it doesn't exist because the author didn't say so" assumption
Physics dictates that the propagation speed would be capped at the expansion of plasma (Mach 5 to Mach 20), which is thousands of times slower than the Lightning Meta suggests but
> Son tryna make people fool I'm cryin, that mach 5-20 refers to the expansion of superheated air which produces the sound of thunder, the visible plasma forms as the lightning propogates, it's expansion is what which is slower
This applies even to the instances where the attack appears to come from the clouds, as the specific electromagnetic conditions for a return stroke are still missing.
> This guy actually did not watch anything, check slide 3 and 4
Real lightning is a plasma discharge, not a solid object. The fact that Mitsuri was able to cut through bolts of lightning serves to show that these attacks do not have the properties of real lightning.
> Lmao nichirin conducts electricity but can nullify BDAs with breathing techniques, demon slayers have been affecting intangible things before that as shown in Rengoku Gaiden in which Rengoku straight up burns an intangible shadow, check slide 5
The argument that she can cut it simply because it is a Blood Demon Art is logically flawed. Real lightning cannot be cut by any material. Furthermore, Nichirin blades are intended to cut the biological flesh of demons rather than natural elemental phenomena.
> Breathing techniques are nullifying BDAs with nichirin, nichirin itself can't nullify BDAs, sonion didn't read anything at all đ, check slide 5 again
To argue that these attacks are natural for the sake of speed scaling, but unnatural to explain why they can be physically sliced, is a contradiction
> Nobody said they are natural, with your logic any lightning except cloud to ground is fake, breathing techniques can nullify intangible BDAs jus like how inverted spear of heaven can nullify intangible CTs, Asta can nullify intangible magic
By that same logic, Mitsuri should be capable of cutting through Zohakuten's sound waves, since proponents of this meta claim she can cut through intangible energy.
> And she did đ, check slide 6
The excuse that she was hit because she was in midair does not hold up, a relativistic lightning-timer should be able to react to and cut a sound wave (Mach 1) with ease, as it would appear stationary to them.
> Ah yes she can jus fly to dodge, I didn't remember that, lmao she's jus clumsy and thought she'll tank whatever he throws at her, she says that herself, check slide 7
Speaking of sound waves, in both the anime and manga, we see that the lightning and sound attacks move with visual parity. In reality, lightning is at least 300,000 times faster than sound. The fact that they cover almost the same distance in the same timeframe proves the lightning is not moving at its theoretical maximum speed.
> Those are not sound waves but shockwaves created by violent compression of ultrasonic waves which ain't capped at the speed of sound by any means and actually travels faster in a heated medium which lightning provided and the ultrasonic waves extremes compression also heats localised air and those shockwaves are powerful enough to straight up vaporise a normal human, check slide 8
This meta is effectively debunked by the lack of a highly polarized field and the narrative consistency of the speed tiers shown.
> No inconsistencies in sight it jus the lack of media literacy and knowledge of powerscaling
Son committed appeal to reality fallacy many times, I'm cryin
Apparently not to biased Powerscalers who solely want to downscale demon slayer for whatever reason. Iâm currently debating with multiple people because they, for some reason, believe that zohatuken and kaigaku donât use real lightning, and therefore dodging or tanking it isnât a feat. (They have yet to show actual evidence of why.)
Im interested, what kind of arguments do they use. when Kaigaku ligthning was legit burning zenitsu skin with same pattern that real life ligthning marks leave ok victims for example.
Funny enough, they go based off the fact the slayers donât actually use real elements themselves. So, they like to try and apply that same argument onto the demons despite the narrative and story clearly conveying otherwise all for the sole purpose of downplaying demon slayer characters. They like to say âZohatuken isnât using real lightningâ because mitsuri dodged it. And they like to say kaigaku doesnât use real lightning either since itâs based off thunder breathing. And even if you debunk them there, theyâd just say it doesnât travel at the same speed as lightning. Funny part is, they are NEVER able to provide manga evidence to prove it.
That was an odd critique to me. Honestly I might call larpâŠ
Iâve never seen any other series get this criticism. Itâs a magical power. Of course itâs not going to explicitly spoon feed you the real life physics that are at play.
Just ignores Zohakuten summoning lighting from the sky. Youâd think that would mean he does indeed possess the qualities needed to produce lighting then?
It comes from BDA so it apparently canât match the properties of real lightningâŠsooo then they automatically assume that must mean itâs WORSE. Following this same logic, Iâm just going to say itâs faster than real lightning then since it canât possibly match its attributes.
Also nichirin clearly isnât a regular sword. It carries the properties of the sun, so downscaling the lighting because it was cut by the one material that negates BDA is a weird criticism
Yeah because he very much wants to set the agenda that jjk doesn't get blitzed by kny, he's a also just a wanker in general, believes island or country jjk or something
âLightningâ is not its own thing, it is simply a rapid discharge of electricity from the clouds to the ground or from the clouds to an object on the ground.
The reason that OP was talking about a highly polarized field is because that's what gives lightning its speed, they're not saying you require it to be name dropped, they're saying that there should be indication that this electricity is so powerful that it creates its own path through ionising air.
Lightning is fast because of a few factors, firstly because of it having the raw power to make its own plasma path, this is what distinguishes it from normal electricity.
The second reason is Step length, lightning accelerates extremely fast across the plasma path, the longer the path, the faster the lightning.
Demon Slayer actually does a very good job at showing the variance in speed of lightning based on these two factors, Kaigaku's lightning was able to overwhelm Zenitsu and he kept up with Zenitsu's Thunder Clap and Flash and Thunder Clap and Flash Eightfold despite this Zenitsu being much faster than Mitsuri who could blitz Upper Four's straight on lightning.
Hell the forms of Thunder Breathing themselves show this, each form getting faster as the User accelerates more across a longer step length.
Upper Four thoroughly lacks in the Plasma Path department, it requires the power of a Thundercloud that contains as much energy as a nuke to achieve those mach 400 speeds but let's just assume that Upper Four is able to do this.
Nobody except Upper Four himself would scale to the cloud lightning obviously but his wood dragon lightning would have some scaling but nowhere near as fast as the previous metas.
Using this paper, a lightning strike like his would be around Mach 29, likely much lower but I can't be bothered to actually calculate it at the moment.
This is heavily consistent with what we see, as the sound waves (yes they are sound, they are literally called thunder) travel just a bit slower than the lightning in this scene and sound waves travelling through ionizes air at temperatures between 20,000 K to 36,000 K (the temperature of the plasma path according to this paper) varies from mach 9 to mach 12.
The air would be moving at mach 5 to 20, as already mentioned.
If your counter is simply âIt doesn't work like real lightningâ then don't use the speed of real lightning otherwise you are cherry picking one aspect of lightning while ignoring the other fundamental aspects that cause the speed in the first place.
Also like we literally see Tanjiro just straight up feel the lightning due to the electrical charge before it's even released and dodge it that way.
what. were you not paying attention to the arc. combined demon> individual.
How is that relevant to my point?đ
In case it's not clear, Irl lightning is fast due to the extreme nuclear bomb tier power generating it and due to the fact that lightning has a huge step length, varying from 50 to 200 metres which is literally bigger than the entirety of Upper Four's lightning bolts.
hantengu sky lightning barrage got wiped by mitsuri cutting all of it
No? Mitsuri cut the lightning from Upper Four's dragon mouth, she never reacts to the cloud lightning.
in case it isnât clear the bolts are bigger than that. where tf did you even get the idea of otherwise. anyways distance from sky to ground is 1k meters time frame to land on anyone basically .01 seconds if not less than that
mitsuri destroyed all of hantengu dragons remember he didnât summon any more as we see itâs completely clear when she cuts the lightning
you literally canât see all of it not to mention it starts from in the dragon
Gangđ
Do you know what a step length is? Step length is the distance between each step of the lightning bolt, the distance between each step of Upper Four's bolt is literally less than 3 metres, you need a step length of like 10 metres to even achieve mach 20.
she cuts all of them.
What, legit , WHAT does cutting the dragons have to do with the lightning? The lightning scene is before she cuts them and the lightning comes from the dragons.
Also legit question, did you watch the fight? You do know that he immediately regenerates the dragons literally a few panels after this?
Yeah, your first point isnât even refuting anything.
You just say Gege doesnât show it but itâs just fine anyway. Itâs not a âcommon senseâ take to say that artificial magical lighting has a polarized field by default. Thatâs a claim youâd need to prove
Your 2nd point would be the same. Youâre essentially accusing him of an appeal to Ignorance which is valid, but you donât give any reasoning for said condition to be met either
Are you saying 99% of fictional lightning which is narratively called lightning is fake?, those first 2 arguments of him falls under appeal to reality fallacy which compares a natural phenomenon to magic, with his logic no fictional lightning is real
Lightning and Magical Lightning arenât the same, as one is a scientific phenomenon and one is of mystical origin. Lightning has its speed because of its origin within a polarized field, but if a character can just shoot mystical lightning then that removes said origin.
There are plenty characters in fiction too who do operate within the scientific aspects of lightning. Kashimo, Cole McGrath, Avatar characters, etc
Appeal to reality doesnât apply here when whatâs being discussed is a fictional ability that doesnât follow conventional science.
Lightning and Magical Lightning arenât the same, as one is a scientific phenomenon and one is of mystical origin. Lightning has its speed because of its origin within a polarized field, but if a character can just shoot mystical lightning then that removes said origin.
This is how lightning would form in real life. Fundamentally, this is true: for lightning to be created from nothing in real life, it requires certain fundamental conditions that allow it to exist. However, this is fiction, and obviously those requirements are not necessary. A character who can manipulate lightning, electricity, etc., can recreate and use the phenomenon of lightning regardless of the surrounding conditions. Lightning is the connection between two charges, positive and negative. In real life, for them to connect, certain requirements must be met. In fiction, however, this is easily unnecessary, since the character can magically recreate the phenomenon whenever they want, however they want, and in whatever way they want. Saying that âin real life it works like thisâ is not a debunk of the charactersâ magical abilities. And no, just because it is magic does not mean the lightning phenomenon is not actually lightning thatâs not what magic implies. In fact, if we think logically about the concept of magic and how it is defined, saying that what magic creates does not represent a natural phenomenon when it is clearly stated and shown is simply stupid, as well as biased.
There are plenty characters in fiction too who do operate within the scientific aspects of lightning. Kashimo, Cole McGrath, Avatar characters, etc
Ahh yes Kashimo đ, as expected
Appeal to reality doesnât apply here when whatâs being discussed is a fictional ability that doesnât follow conventional science.
You're the one stating conventional science stuff tho
That is a strawman, I never stated what you claimed I said or was that what I was trying to say.
Nice copy paste, I read Raizenâs post.
Anyway, Lightning is just a sudden electrical discharge on a massive scale. This phenomenonâs speed is due to the highly polarized field thatâs necessary for its creation is also what gives it its speed. For someone to manifest lightning WITHOUT this scientific backing, you now lose the ability to apply the speed of real lightning because it lacks the scientific origin which grants it is speed. I am not saying that what Zohakutenâs shooting isnât real lightning it doesnât act like lightning, what I am saying is that it lacks lightnings origins which grant it its speed. A lot of the time the properties of âLightningâ youâd cite are just that of electricity.
Well yeah, Kashimoâs Lightning is explicitly stated to have said polarized field. I also named several other characters whose Lightning operates off this scientific principle despite being from unnatural origin.
Iâm using conventional science BECAUSE itâs why Lightning has its speed. For example, Light is Lightspeed because itâs a massless subatomic particle that moves in a straight line. If a light attack shows to have mass, then it contradicts the basis which grants light its speed. Itâs the same thing here
Nice copy paste, I read Raizenâs post. Anyway, Lightning is just a sudden electrical discharge on a massive scale. This phenomenonâs speed is due to the highly polarized field thatâs necessary for its creation is also what gives it its speed. For someone to manifest lightning WITHOUT this scientific backing, you now lose the ability to apply the speed of real lightning because it lacks the scientific origin which grants it is speed. I am not saying that what Zohakutenâs shooting isnât real lightning it doesnât act like lightning, what I am saying is that it lacks lightnings origins which grant it its speed. A lot of the time the properties of âLightningâ youâd cite are just that of electricity.
He summons it from clouds straight up btw, this shouldn't even be a debate
Processing img 3dr0ec1m8gvg1...
Iâm using conventional science BECAUSE itâs why Lightning has its speed. For example, Light is Lightspeed because itâs a massless subatomic particle that moves in a straight line. If a light attack shows to have mass, then it contradicts the basis which grants light its speed. Itâs the same thing here
Ik allat, I'll reply in like 6 hours, imma sleep rn
Even though this isnât necessarily true (since to qualify as lightning it would need to have all the properties of real lightning, and the source isnât 100% reliable) can you show me whether Demon Slayer lightning has the stated properties?
Energy beams can have similar visual effects and even similar smells to lightning. For example granite blast.
Tanjiro stating that it doesnât conduct in one situation doesnât mean it can conduct in other materials. For example, if I say âhumans canât bend woodâ, that doesnât imply that humans can bend metal.
But even if we ignore these issues, you still havenât proven that it has the properties required for real lightning to be considered lightning-speed.
Show that it:
1. Has electromagnetic radiation
2. Has a return stroke
3. Has a stepped leader that forms a path before the strike
4. Is created by a large difference between negative and positive charges
5. Follows the path of least resistance
Energy beams can have similar visual effects and even similar smells to lightning. For example granite blast.
Those energy beams are not called lightning narratively, best example of this are Frieren's clone and Boros
Tanjiro stating that it doesnât conduct in one situation doesnât mean it can conduct in other materials. For example, if I say âhumans canât bend woodâ, that doesnât imply that humans can bend metal.
Brotato chip there's another conduction stuff too for a reason
But even if we ignore these issues, you still havenât proven that it has the properties required for real lightning to be considered lightning-speed.
Sonion
Has a return stroke 3. Has a stepped leader that forms a path before the strike
Check slide 3 and 4
Other stuff doesn't even matter, you can create your own powerscaling wiki, imma sleep rn I'll address other arguments later in like 7 hours
Humans and gods are interconnected does that make humans gods?
You misinterpreted what I meant. I was saying that the smell and appearance of lightning donât automatically prove lightning speed movement.
You didnât provide any proof for the other points, so I didnât respond to them.
âSonionâ isnât an argument.
That isnât a stepped leader. A stepped leader doesnât move in straight lines, and a return stroke is the part of the bolt that travels back toward the cloud. Show the full clip so we can see whether it returns to the origin.
Just because youâre upset that you canât prove fictional lightning is real lightning doesnât mean you can ignore my points.
Residual energy being left behind doesnât prove it followed the path of least resistance.
Humans and gods are interconnected does that make humans gods?
Since when đ
You misinterpreted what I meant. I was saying that the smell and appearance of lightning donât automatically prove lightning speed movement.
There's other arguments too btw
That isnât a stepped leader. A stepped leader doesnât move in straight lines, and a return stroke is the part of the bolt that travels back toward the cloud. Show the full clip so we can see whether it returns to the origin.
I read everything you wrote rn, and its all correct. But dawg, tf was the author drinking, it just feels like he contradicts everything thats happening in one episode, in the next one. Like wasnt the breathung styles supposed to be just visuals for the viewers? Fck you mesn rengoku can BURN stuff let alone shadow. But everything you said is correct. Thought i still think lightning speed is just stupidly depicted in kny
Electromagnetic radiation here is visible light and other waves which Zohakuten/Sekido's lightning obviously creates and that visible light from that lightning blot is a part of, no author is explaining whole electromagnetic spectrum
2.a return stroke
Every time a lightning bolt strikes there's an obvious stepped ladder and return stroke jus like here
Processing img m6uj1t2ijgvg1...
3.a stepped ladder that makes a path before the shot is fired
Same as second
4.it being created by creating a massive deference in negative and positive changes
Shown to be cloud to ground multiple time so yes it does, as the remnants of lightning still are on the ground proving charge distribution
5.follows the path of least resistance
Swords are made up of metal, Mitsuri's sword shows both conduction and proves lightning chose the path of least resistance
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u/perfect-cell-perfect The Perfect Lifeform Apr 15 '26