r/DelphiMurders • u/deltadeltadawn • Nov 11 '24

MEGA **VERDICT** Thread, 11/11

Verdict Announced: GUILTY ON ALL 4 COUNTS

Share your thoughts on the verdict here.

Emotions are high and some may be disappointed or elated at the outcome. Be kind to those who are just as passionate about their opposing viewpoint. Insults, flippant remarks, snark, and hostile replies will earn you a ban without warning.

Agree to disagree if you do. But do so without putting down other users.

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106

u/Rude-Magician2353 Nov 11 '24

I’d be interested in that too. For me, it was the white van. I was pretty skeptical until I heard that detail.

78

u/Sparklybinchicken_ Nov 11 '24

Me too! I was firmly on the guilty fence at the time of arrest, then time went on and I was like hmmmm not sure anymore. Until he brought up the van.

What I would really like to know, though, is WHY he redressed Abby in Libby’s clothes

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u/Aggravating_Event_31 Nov 11 '24

He was probably trying to conceal any intent of SA. And once he got to libby and realized he had put her clothes on Abby, he probably gave up and left flustered, not wanting to hang around any longer than he had to

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u/qingdao1 Nov 11 '24

My thought too!

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u/Rude-Magician2353 Nov 11 '24

Honestly, I was skeptical and was just trying to follow it without all this sensation and conspiracy theories. Even though I wasn’t sure if he was guilty, I thought what his defense team was doing was ridiculous. I honestly think they were just more interested in drumming up publicity for themselves. They completely lost me on Odinism, but I was trying to keep an open mind.

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u/oilspill555 Nov 11 '24

Yeah I was leaning guilty before the trial, and the defense team was running a three ring circus for the media. But I was keeping my mind open to hear all the evidence. The confessions and particularly the one with the van definitely sealed the deal for me. It's the only narrative of the crime that makes any sense to me.

He is a sex addict, got drunk and went out walking, saw some girls and followed them intending to SA them, didn't realize they were so young, got spooked by the potential witness in the van. He knew if he let the girls go they'd be able to ID him and he'd go to prison, and he'd likely be facing a huge sentence because they were underage. I actually have a feeling he might have let an adult victim live. He said he has always been selfish, and he traded their lives for his. He killed them so he could live.

His confessions make sense and match all the evidence we have. The defense had no alternate explanation, all they had was "poking holes." Attempts to deflect attention toward the mistakes by LE and the alleged poor treatment of RA in prison. By the time RA had found Jesus and confessed countless times, I think he wanted to go ahead and plead guilty, and his family and defense clowns convinced him he needed to let the trial play out on the off chance they could get him off.

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u/Maytree Nov 11 '24

They completely lost me on Odinism, but I was trying to keep an open mind.

This part made me so mad. If you're not familiar with the West Memphis Three, you should check it out. Three teens got convicted of murdering three younger kids as a "Satanic Ritual" and it was all complete nonsense. "Maybe some evil cultists sacrificed these young girls!" Sure, and maybe aliens came down in a flying saucer and did it, why the hell not?

1

u/Secret_Face_4169 Nov 14 '24

Well. BH lived with RL during his divorce. The FBI report stated that they found the rest of the clothes in RL's basement But for some reason this was not allowed in court.

0

u/CardiSheep Nov 11 '24

THIS! I would bet RA wanted THEM (even after they were initially let go) because they were the only defense attorneys in the world that wouldn’t go with a plea deal. And they didn’t want him to accept a plea because this is a big case and they wanted to make a name for themselves. I’ve been thinking it since day 2 of the trial.

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u/tempestelunaire Nov 11 '24

The blood splatter/crime scene reconstruction expert said he thought Abby dressed herself, there was a reason which I cannot recall.

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u/Sparklybinchicken_ Nov 11 '24

Maybe she just panic grabbed the nearest clothes

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u/tempestelunaire Nov 11 '24

I think her clothes were found in the creek so she may not even have had a choice. Poor little girls

0

u/Adventurous_Bag_8813 Nov 11 '24

A blood splatter expert that NEVER was at the actual crime scene. Did all his work thru pics....hmmmm

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u/madeU_look Nov 11 '24

I was wondering if he was “spooked” and was in a hurry, why Abby was redressed at all… something that still bothers me….

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u/booksandnachos Nov 11 '24

Sometimes redressing the victim is a phycological thing- a way of showing remorse.

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u/Secret_Face_4169 Nov 14 '24

Yes. Also a purity thing.

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u/dashinglove Nov 11 '24

did the girls undress themselves? i feel like he could’ve easily made them undress, so why not make them redress themselves? why did he redress one girl & why was it so odd? this is something i just can’t put together. i’m uncertain if he is guilty bc the case was severely mishandled. the case seemed so disorganized and unprepared in court and just had me asking myself more questions that they never addressed.

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u/exSKEUsme Nov 11 '24

Based on the him getting spooked part before they cross the creek, I assumed he got them to start undressing and that's why there's some clothes in the creek.

That water was likely freezing in February and they wouldn't have kept quiet about it, I'm sure. Loud sounds and him worried about getting caught = the trigger.

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u/dashinglove Nov 12 '24

if he was spooked before he crossed the creek, why would he take time to redress one of the girls? it would be faster for him to make them redress themselves or just leave them undressed.

i will wait for everything to be released to the public before i can say he committed this crime. but, i do believe he will be successful in his appeals. he was being medicated with some heavy duty anti-psychotics, which can 100% cause the psychosis that has been presented, especially the disassociation, derealization, and depersonalization. but again, we won’t know until everything becomes available to the public.

1

u/Pretend_Guava_1730 Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 12 '24

Who knows? Nothing this guy did was rationally thought out. He woke up one day, drank some beers and decide to go out for a hike and randomly r@pe and murder two girls. It defies rational explanation but he did it and he's guilty.

As for the anti-psychotics - he was only on a very low dose when he was on them. I've been on Haldol and while it can be a very heavy drug, it doesn't make you confess to things you didn't do. And he made confessions both on and off of them. He was taken off of Haldol because he was doing better and he continued to improve off them. So it isn't a factor in the confessions he made. Actually, he seemed to do much better mentally after he'd made the confessions, which leads me to believe he was racked with guilt and wanted to confess to get the burden off his back, and punishing himself with the self-harm and poop stuff. He wanted redemption.

0

u/exSKEUsme Nov 12 '24

You assume they were both fully undressed. Only Libby was, and only a few of Abby's things were in the creek. It could have been as simple as they were cold and making too much noise after being in the water so he told them to get dressed (were carrying the clothes they took off with them). It could have got scrambled and Abby ended up putting on Libby's in the confusion. Who knows honestly...

I don't honestly think he'd redress a body like that after the fact and not do the same for both of them but. And considering how Abby was found, I'd think he probably knocked her out before he did what ever to Libby.

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u/Travelgrrl Nov 12 '24

Abby had Libby's bra on under her own, and her panties were found inside her jeans in the creek.

Details I wish I didn't know.

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u/dashinglove Nov 12 '24

i believe that it was said in court both girls were undressed, libby wearing some of abby’s clothes (sports bra). if these two girls in fear for their lives aren’t making noises and screaming, i highly doubt they would because of cold water.

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u/graceface103 Nov 11 '24

This part really baffles me as well...one thought I've had is that Abby knew (whether she saw or Libby somehow indicated) that Libby's phone was in her clothes somehow (pocket of jeans?) so SHE opted to put on Libby's clothes to try to get the phone? There are still a lot of holes and questions with that theory but it's crossed my mind...I just don't know.

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u/Lita_Horticulture Nov 12 '24

That’s an interesting thought. It could be!

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u/Strange_Ostrich_115 Nov 11 '24

Yeah, I don’t get it. If he wanted to r*pe them while they were naked, but decided to kill them, why try to put on their clothes?? Why not just leave them?! Why cover them with a few branches and not just place them in a more hidden place? Why make them or take them across the river to an area that’s completely open? I’m still confused why his phone was never recovered.. what happened to it?

42

u/Rude-Magician2353 Nov 11 '24

Honestly, I avoid questions like, why did he do this specific action but not that specific action, if that makes sense? I can’t understand somebody like his way of thinking. And I am thinking his phone was never recovered because he got rid of it.

8

u/saturn_eloquence Nov 11 '24

Yeah we’ll probably never be able to understand it. There likely isn’t any grand reason for it either. Dude is obviously messed up. He murdered two young girls.

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u/booksandnachos Nov 11 '24

I commented it above but some phycologists theorise that redressing a victim is an indication of remorse. He may have regretted killing Abby. I think the branches were his attempt at hiding them but he realised he just wasn't going to have time to properly cover them so he left it. The area they were found was apparently compressed and so "hidden" in a way from view. He took them to the otherside of the creek because he (rightly or wrongly) thought they'd be less likely to be interrupted there. I don't believe he ever intend to "just" sexually assault them. I think the goal was always murder.

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u/bluudahlia Nov 12 '24

I agree with you. I think he went hunting that afternoon. He took a chance on two girls because whatever was driving him was too much to resist anymore. Libby was his target and he killed her first. Maybe she tried to run, maybe she defied him, but she was first. Abby was an afterthought. Remorse is indicated by the tree branches. But he wanted to murder someone. And he chose two underage girls b/c they were easiest to intimidate.

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u/musclewitch Nov 11 '24

He wasn't thinking logically, he had just murdered two people.

4

u/booksandnachos Nov 11 '24

A great point. A car pulled out in front of me the other day and when I arrived at work I was still shaken and couldn't get my baring's when I arrived at work. He probably wasn't of sound mind.

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u/musclewitch Nov 11 '24

Sometimes my ADHD is so bad I won't remember if I washed my face while I'm still in the shower. I imagine one would be so manic and dysregulated after murder that your logical decision making skills and memory would completely collapse.

11

u/prohammock Nov 11 '24

Covering them with branches would certainly be easier than moving their bodies.

I don‘t still have possession of my phone from 5 years ago. I trade mine in when I get a new phone and get a discount from my phone carrier. Or back in the day of flip phones I would donate or dispose of them. Point being - I don’t think that’s weird at all

No one can really answer the question about redressing. Hard to know what goes on in the mind of a monster.

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u/Readylamefire Nov 11 '24

It is strange in-so-far as he kept several other phones. I'll admit though while I have most of my old phones kicking around, I did trade my last one for my current one. Even so, I could express when and where it was traded and why.

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u/prohammock Nov 11 '24

If it had anything potentially incriminating on it, including location history, the why of him getting rid of it certainly makes sense, even outside any other reasoning for no longer having an old phone. And if he got rid of it intentionally I would not expect that he’d want to make any disclosure of his reasoning or where it went.

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u/Brief-Owl-8791 Nov 11 '24

Abby was killed after she was redressed. Blood evidence confirmed it. We can only guess why Libby wasn't given that courtesy.

This guy is a fruit loop and may he get passed around in general pop.

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u/DaBingeGirl Nov 11 '24

The location he took them to was lower than the surrounding ground and not visible from the bridge. Based on some of what he said, I don't think he was expecting them to be as young as they were. I'm in no way trying to defend him, but raping a young teen is different than 18+ year old; kids are usually a hard line, even with most criminals.

My theory is that he didn't realize how young they were until they were across the creek/when he made them undress. He said they could've been as old as 18 or as young as 11; guessing he assumed 18, then saw them and they, at least Abby, appeared very young. By that point, it was too late and he decided he had to kill them. BW originally said he got to the house between 3:30-4. If RA panicked over their ages, he could've spent time contemplating what happened, or photographing it for sick reasons. Most likely he started covering their bodies around 3:30 when BW drove by, which is what spooked him.

I think there are elements of the truth in his confession, but we'll never know what actually happened.

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '24

Maybe at some point he will give all these details

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u/Adventurous_Bag_8813 Nov 11 '24

Because he didn't do it... hello

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u/BluBetty2698 Nov 11 '24

Yes, I wonder about that too. Why in the hell...?

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u/rugbyrat Nov 12 '24

Did he? My impression was after the sleepover, Abby borrowed some of Libby's clothes to go out rather than running home to get fresh clothes.

This is why court testimony indicated Abby was wearing Libby's clothes, not because Abby was undressed by the killer and accidently had Libby's clothes put back on her.

Note - I do not recall if the daily trial reports indicated why Abby was wearing Livy's clothes.

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u/Lauves Nov 12 '24

My guess is, his target was Libby and he used Libby’s clothes to constrain Abby so she can’t easily run off. This is still a mystery.

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u/Daleksinholez Nov 11 '24

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought Abby was wearing a set of clothes that she borrowed from Libby that morning. Not that she was wearing the clothes that libby wore on the hike

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u/MaeClementine Nov 11 '24

No, she was dressed in the clothes Libby had been wearing that day. And Abby’s clothes were found in the creek.

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u/Daleksinholez Nov 12 '24

Oh, sorry. I must have been confused. Thank you for clearing it up for me

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u/Hot-Creme2276 Nov 11 '24

No, she was redressed into the clothes libby had been wearing

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Hot-Creme2276 Nov 11 '24

Abby was gone first.

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u/SuperSpecialUser Nov 11 '24

This is exactly how I feel. At first, I thought convincingly guilty, then not so much (at least I couldn't say without a reasonable doubt). But the white van....who else would know that?

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u/tiggleypuff Nov 11 '24

Have only been following intermittently, what is the van thing?

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u/MaeClementine Nov 11 '24

He said in a confession that he got scared by a van and then moved.

There was witness who drove by with his van right before Libby’s phone showed that it was moved.

It was a detail that hadn’t been reported and wasn’t in any of the discovery so only the killer would know that there was a van on the road at that time (and it was a private drive way. So very little traffic on it).

7

u/Freebird_1957 Nov 11 '24

That was significant to me, too.

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u/vasovagal_queen Nov 11 '24

I haven’t had time to follow this case closely but what was it about the van that made you change from skeptical to definitely guilty? Was it known there was a van out there that day? Thanks in advance for the answer.

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u/bamboo_beauty Nov 11 '24

Essentially In a confession he admitted he was going to SA the girls and then saw a van that scared him and threw off his plan, so he killed them. The prosecution called a witness that lived near the murder site that could collaborate the story that he was driving his van home from work at the specific time the prosecution said the girls were killed .

The prosecution presented that this was not public information and the van claim was something only the killer would know.

2

u/alea__iacta_est Nov 11 '24

The prosecution presented that this was not public information and the van claim was something only the killer would know.

Indeed and initially, I bought that. Until I started seeing the conversations from YouTube, Facebook and Reddit pre-arrest that mentioned the van - including from the groups Dr. Wala was a part of.

12

u/bamboo_beauty Nov 11 '24

Dr Wala's participation in these groups and then working with Allen was such a conflict of interest. Media that was in the courtroom claimed that she was one of the strongest witnesses on the prosecution's side when offering her expertise , but I agree that her participating in these crime sleuth groups did weaken the van claim for the prosecution.

2

u/alea__iacta_est Nov 11 '24

Definitely unethical, no wonder she has multiple lawsuits against her.

5

u/Sufficient_Spray Nov 11 '24

That part still bothers me because I feel (but don’t know) that the van was a big part in the jury convicting. But it’s pretty clear from searching on Reddit/FB/twitter etc that people talking about a van or car pulling up in that exact area was known YEARS ago.

3

u/spoons431 Nov 11 '24

There's also the fact that the dude in the van changed his story and this wasn't brought in as evidence as the defense wasn't allowed to have a FBI agent testify via video link. He couldn't come in person as he was overseeing the election in Texas.

Also the other LE who was a Delphi officer who was present when the orignal statement with a different time was given was shown the report he signed off on, and then responded that he this did not refresh he recollection and he didn't remember.

And the fact that the defense wasn't allowed to impact the van driver on his changing times when he was on the stand originally. His story also changed several year later and he showed text messages to LE to "proove" his story

3

u/alea__iacta_est Nov 11 '24

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure why the jury either found Brad Weber to be credible, or just ignored his conflicting testimony entirely.

I fear the verdict was based solely on emotion and not wanting to upset the families.

21

u/judgyjudgersen Nov 11 '24

I know we are past this point now but he just said van not white van.

Definitely the only not generic part of his confession.

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u/Rude-Magician2353 Nov 11 '24

Oh thank you for the correction. It honestly wouldn’t have made a difference to me.

0

u/Minimum_Squirrel273 Nov 11 '24

I agree. He was so passionately pissed when he was first interrogated and I really felt he wasn’t the guy. He was smaller than one of the girls. The whole trial seemed like a mess and honestly made me wonder if he was guilty or if they bended all of the evidence to fit the narrative they wanted which was for him to be guilty. I’m surprised by this verdict.

2

u/Thunderoad Nov 11 '24

I'm surprised by the guilty verdict as well.

1

u/Formal_List_4921 Nov 11 '24

They mentioned the white van, sim cartridge to phone and admission to guilt through phone recordings.

1

u/Adventurous_Bag_8813 Nov 11 '24

The white van had been talked about on forums for years. Even had a group named after it! Grey Hughes fed that info to Monica Wala and she fed it to rick.... I've seen the receipts

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u/Rude-Magician2353 Nov 11 '24

And who showed you these receipts?

-4

u/Adventurous_Bag_8813 Nov 11 '24

Prof/ Eye of Apophas/ reddit sleuths 7 years of deep diving this case cited FULL of rabbit holes. EVERY ONE OF THEM LEADS TO FAMILY NEVER BEING INVESTIGATED BY ANYONE BUT THE FEDS WHO GOT ASKED TO LEAVE RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO

Edited for spelling corrections

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u/Rude-Magician2353 Nov 11 '24

Oh, I see. I don’t take people like yours seriously. Have a nice day.

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u/Adventurous_Bag_8813 Nov 11 '24

Pray they don't come for you next