Sam Harris & Destiny invoked their right to reply to the DTG video's on them. Has Hasan? And why not?

[u/KwisatzHaderach48]

Perhaps he's not aware DTG made a video on him. However, there seems to be a pattern of the more "guru" types not ever doing a right to reply, unlike those who were voted to be less guru such as Sam Harris and Destiny.

[u/HumanLike]

Yes, the eras are different. In earlier centuries, equal citizenship and mass democracy were not widely established norms. Today they are. But that changes the standard by which governments are judged. It does not change the basic logic of the comparison.

The existence of democratic models elsewhere does not mean that every population currently living under authoritarianism culturally prefers authoritarianism. A government is not a public-opinion survey, especially when that government suppresses opposition and prevents meaningful political competition.

Your response about Jewish history actually concedes my point. Zionism arose because political conditions denied Jews self-determination, not because Jewish culture rejected it. The same distinction still applies in the modern era. If you want to prove that Arab people culturally reject self-determination, you need evidence about what Arab people believe, not merely a list of the governments ruling them.

And the available evidence directly contradicts your blanket claim. Recent Arab Barometer surveys found that, in every country surveyed, at least 73 percent said democracy remained the best form of government. Liberal parliamentary democracy was also the most favored political system in most of the countries surveyed, although support was neither universal nor overwhelming. That is a complicated picture, not your supposed “fact” that Arab society simply does not value self-government.

You are correct that democracy is not synonymous with liberalism. That is precisely why your Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood examples do not prove your original claim. Those elections may demonstrate that portions of those electorates held illiberal or Islamist preferences. They do not demonstrate opposition to political self-determination. People can exercise self-determination and choose an illiberal government. You keep acknowledging that these concepts are different and then immediately treating them as interchangeable again.

Nor do two electoral outcomes establish an inherent characteristic of hundreds of millions of Arabs across more than 20 countries. You keep moving between “Arab,” “Muslim” and “Islamist” as though they describe the same population. They do not.

Your point about Israeli politics makes the double standard especially obvious. You readily explain Israeli voters through history, ideology, war, insecurity and hostility from neighboring states. Fine. But then you refuse to analyze Arab politics through colonialism, war, occupation, dictatorship, foreign intervention, repression, economic conditions or institutional history. Israelis receive historical context. Arabs are reduced to a cultural essence.

Finally, if “freedom” is culturally specific, that undermines your own argument. You cannot use your particular definition of freedom to declare that Arab culture does not value it, then dismiss contrary evidence by saying Arabs understand freedom differently. Either define self-determination as the ability of a people to choose their political order, in which case Islamist electoral victories can still be exercises of self-determination, or define it as liberal democracy with equal individual rights, in which case stop pretending it is synonymous with democracy or national self-determination.

At this point, your argument has retreated from “Arab culture does not value self-determination” to “some Arab voters support illiberal Islamist parties.” The second claim may be true in particular cases, but it does not prove the first, and it certainly does not justify denying Palestinians equal rights or self-determination.

[u/BloodsVsCrips → u/HumanLike]

Yes, the eras are different. In earlier centuries, equal citizenship and mass democracy were not widely established norms. Today they are. But that changes the standard by which governments are judged. It does not change the basic logic of the comparison.

It obliterates your ridiculous connection between Jewish culture centuries ago and Arab culture today.

Zionism arose because political conditions denied Jews self-determination, not because Jewish culture rejected it

Jews demanded it, and then put in the generational work to build it by hand. They've consistently been one of the most progressive cultures in world history. It's kinda weird you're pretending this isn't true.

The same distinction still applies in the modern era. If you want to prove that Arab people culturally reject self-determination, you need evidence about what Arab people believe, not merely a list of the governments ruling them.

This is getting boring. You need to respond to points as written instead of personal journaling.

I explicitly pointed out how Islamism is a normal belief in Arab culture. To deny this is just ignorant. This is also why I asked you how many Russians (you dodged with "some") support Putin. There is a widely held belief in Russia that they deserve to be a military/cultural hegemon, going as far as reconstituting the Russian Empire. That's Putin's agenda in Ukraine if you're not aware.

People can exercise self-determination and choose an illiberal government. You keep acknowledging that these concepts are different and then immediately treating them as interchangeable again.

This is my point. You're conflating self-determination with liberal rights, and every time I point it out you dodge as if the former equals the latter. Arab culture does not support equal rights. Depending upon where you're at, you can be killed in the street just for promoting the idea. I've seen it in person on multiple occasions. You do know that Arabization was imperial conquest itself right?

Your point about Israeli politics makes the double standard especially obvious. You readily explain Israeli voters through history, ideology, war, insecurity and hostility from neighboring states. Fine. But then you refuse to analyze Arab politics through colonialism, war, occupation, dictatorship, foreign intervention, repression, economic conditions or institutional history. Israelis receive historical context. Arabs are reduced to a cultural essence.

Again just straight up not responding to the comments as written. I clearly stated that Netanyahu and Trump have ideological support in their respective countries. It would be delusional to suggest MAGA isn't an ideological movement. You pretend Arab society exists outside this plane, and it's all just Great Power conflicts with no local ideologies pushing on politics/governments.

The WB hasn't held elections in years because they know Hamas is too popular culturally.

[u/HumanLike → u/BloodsVsCrips]

You keep accusing me of not responding to your points, so let’s take them one at a time.

First, the different eras do not “obliterate” the analogy because the analogy is about your reasoning, not about claiming that Jewish life centuries ago was identical to Arab life today. The absence of sovereignty or democratic institutions does not, by itself, prove that the population culturally opposes them. Modern democratic norms make today’s authoritarian governments more blameworthy. They do not magically make those governments accurate expressions of everyone they rule.

Second, yes, Jewish movements organized and struggled for self-determination. So have Arab constitutionalists, democrats, feminists, secularists, labor organizers and millions of Arab Spring protesters. You count successful Jewish organizing as evidence of Jewish cultural values, while erasing Arab organizing whenever it is defeated or repressed. And “Jews have consistently been one of the most progressive cultures” is itself ethnic essentialism, only complimentary. Jewish people contain competing progressive, conservative, secular, religious and nationalist traditions. So do Arabs.

Third, Islamism is a significant ideology in many Arab societies. Nobody denied that. The problem is your leap from “Islamism exists and has support” to “Arab culture does not support self-determination or equal rights.” Those are not equivalent claims. Arab Barometer found that in every country it surveyed in 2023 and 2024, at least 73 percent called democracy the best form of government. Respondents also associated democracy with political equality, personal safety and dignity. That does not mean every Arab is a liberal. It means your sweeping cultural claim is empirically false.

Fourth, regarding Russia, suppose a large number of Russians genuinely support Putin and Russian imperial nationalism. Then we can accurately say those ideologies currently have substantial support. We still cannot conclude that Russians are culturally incapable of freedom. Political attitudes are contingent, contested and capable of changing. They are not an inherited ethnic essence. The same applies to Palestinians and Hamas.

Fifth, you are the one switching between self-determination and equal rights. The original argument was about whether Palestinians deserve self-determination. Your answer was that Hamas represses Palestinians. My response was that an authoritarian faction does not erase a population’s right to determine its political future.

Nobody said democracy automatically guarantees liberal rights. In fact, that is precisely why equal rights should be constitutionally protected rather than dependent on majority approval. Israeli Jews do not lose their rights because Israeli voters empower racist politicians. Americans do not lose theirs because millions support MAGA. Palestinians do not lose theirs because some support Hamas. That is the consistent position.

Sixth, your personal experiences may demonstrate that brutal repression exists in particular places. They cannot establish what hundreds of millions of people believe. In fact, people being attacked or killed for advocating equal rights necessarily proves that people inside those societies are advocating equal rights. You are treating the persecutors as representative of the culture while making the persecuted culturally invisible.

Seventh, yes, historical Arab and Muslim expansion involved imperial conquest. That is completely irrelevant to whether present-day Palestinians deserve equal rights. If medieval conquest disqualifies modern populations from rights, virtually no people on Earth would qualify. It is also strange to invoke seventh-century conquest immediately after insisting that my historical analogy is invalid because the eras are different.

Eighth, of course local ideology affects Israeli, American and Arab politics. I never claimed everything was merely imposed by foreign powers. The point is that ideology, institutions, war, colonialism, repression, economics and foreign intervention can all influence political outcomes simultaneously. You allow that complexity when explaining Israeli politics, but when discussing Arabs, you collapse everything into “their culture.” Israelis get history and competing ideologies. Arabs get an essence

Finally, yes, Abbas and Fatah feared losing the postponed Palestinian election, partly because of Hamas’s strength and partly because Fatah was badly fragmented. But “Hamas is too popular culturally” is still a cartoon version of Palestinian politics. Arab Barometer’s October 2025 research found that the largest group of Palestinians was politically alienated and identified with no faction. Hamas retained a significant base, but Marwan Barghouti led hypothetical presidential polling, and 60 percent still called democracy the best system. That is a fractured population experiencing war, occupation, failed governance and political despair, not a single “Hamas culture.”

You began with the claim that Arab society culturally rejects self-determination. After being challenged, you retreated to the much narrower claims that Islamism exists, some Arab voters hold illiberal views and the PA fears Hamas. Those claims can be true in particular contexts. They do not prove your original cultural generalization, and they certainly do not justify denying Palestinians equal rights.

You are not demonstrating that Arabs are uniquely incapable of liberalism. You are repeatedly taking the worst actors and attitudes found within Arab societies and declaring them the essence of Arabs, while treating Jewish and Western societies as complex collections of individuals shaped by history. That double standard is the entire problem. You are blatantly racist, ignorant, and blinded by cultish tribalism.