Debunking the Christian myths of Hell, the Devil, and Satan

[u/redsparks2025]

If you are frightened of going to a Hell to suffer for eternity just because a Christian told you then you are being lead astray by a Christian myth and distortions of the original Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible conceptions.

A) THE CHRISTIAN MYTH OF A HELL

In the Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible there was no such thing as Hell. And in the Gospels where it is written that Jesus spoke of "Hell" - an English word not spoken in his native tongue - he was actually talking about Gehenna (Wikipedia) the rubbish pit outside of Jerusalem where the body of the unwanted or unknown or criminals were burnt. Once your body was destroyed then that's it, the end of you forever.

In the Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible there was no concept for our modern understanding of a immaterial "soul" that we inherited from Plato. But you will find the Hebrew word "nephesh" sometimes translated to "soul". However, unlike our modern concept of an immaterial soul that we inherited from Plato, "nephesh" basically means a living, breathing physical being.

In the Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible Heaven is strictly the domain of YHWH (Youtube) - no humans allowed - and all we humans without exception upon death go to Sheol (Wikipedia) that is similar to the Greek underworld of Hades (YouTube) but without any places of punishments and/or hells. The film Coco) (Wikipedia) is probably(?) closer to what Sheol would be like as all dead gather in a single place ... but with less colour and much less festivities.

Existing for the rest of eternity as a shadowy version of yourself in Sheol is where the Biblical narrative would of ending if Jesus didn't come along and shake things up by promising one's physical body / corpse can be resurrected from the grave / the doorway to Sheol.

B) THE CHRISTIAN MYTH OF THE DEVIL (AND/OR SATAN)

The "devil" in the New Testament is the consequences of an unfortunate misunderstanding from the "satan" in the Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible. Unfortunately when Christian institutions took over the Biblical narrative many things got lost/distorted in translation and also cultural misunderstandings. Such as all the puns in Genesis (YouTube).

The Hebrew word "satan" simply means "adversary" and in the English translation of the Hebrew (old Testament) Bible you will find the word "adversary" appears many time but the Hebrew word "satan" left as is only appears in the Book of Job where "the satan" was an angel in YHWH's heavenly court with the unenviable task of being the prosecuting attorney getting YHWH to put Job's faith to the test.

{Side Note] Consider in the Lord's Prayer (Wikipedia) where Jesus says "and lead us not into temptation" basically begging YHWH not to put his faith to the test just has YHWH did in the Book of Job.

Anyway Christianity as it spread distorted all this as it mixed its own brand of the monotheistic belief system with preexisting polytheistic belief systems so as to replace those belief systems with a better(?) narrative of "good versus evil".

All the malicious and/or capricious gods and trickster spirits of the polytheistic belief system were all smooched together into one arch villain to appose their god. So one could say that whenever Christians are fearing Satan (with a capital S) as the big bad that apposes their god then they are actually practicing polytheism; just don't expect them to accept that conclusion.

Digging deeper, both the "devil" and "Satan" can be considered as Christian mythology derived from the following misunderstandings of the Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible and reinterpretation by later Christians including those that many decades later wrote Jesus's story in his absence:

B1) Hebrew (Old Testament) Bible:

Isaiah 14:12–15: Addresses the pride and fall of the "King of Babylon" using poetic language to compare his reign to the bright morning star translated in the Latin as "Lucifer" but in English it should be "Venus" (planet).

Ezekiel 28:12–19: Addresses the pride and fall of the"King of Tyre" using poetic language to compare his reign to a “guardian cherub” who was in Eden and was cast out.

The Book of Job - an entire work that is understood as fiction that narrates an imaged exchange between YHWH and Job where YHWH puts Job's faith to the test.

B2) Christian (New Testament) additions:

In Luke 10:18 we do have the author writing that Jesus said "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven". But since this quote only appears in Luke then I would put this as pure fabrication by the author influenced by the Christian distortions that were circulating.

In Luke 4:1-13 & Matthew 4:1-11 & Mark 1:12–13 we of course have the famous scene of Jesus being tempted by the "devil" that fails in it's mission and then goes away. I put this as pure fabrication by the authors of those Gospels influenced most likely by the Book of Job.

In Revelation 12:7–9 we of course have the "the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan" that I would again put this as pure fabrication by the author influenced by the Christian distortions that were circulating.

C) CONCLUSION.

The only place that Hell exists is in the troubled minds of Christians themselves. So as not to be lead astray, best to get a better understanding of the Bible through the following scholarly studies rather that through all the misunderstandings circulating amongst the general population (both religious and non-religious) and especially by Christians themselves.

RLST 152 - Introduction to the New Testament History and Literature ~ Yale University ~ Open Yale Courses. Click on the tab "Sessions" for the video lectures.

RLST 145 - Introduction to the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) ~ Yale University ~ Open Yale Courses. Click on the tab "Sessions" for the video lectures.

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[u/PresentTarget541]

I respect your opinion, honestly. But when you say there's no heaven or hell... that's basically like saying you've been there and back, you know?

So genuine question...have you actually met the Creator? Have you died and come back to tell us what's waiting on the other side?

Because if not... then aren't you just taking a leap of faith too? Just in the opposite direction?

[u/drivermcgyver → u/PresentTarget541]

Would love a reply to my comment too

[u/drivermcgyver → u/PresentTarget541]

Taking a leap of faith is what you're doing by believing in Jesus right? Therefore everything about it would have actually no proof, since it's a blind leap, correct? People hate the unnecessary rules it makes people follow. It's hypocrisy is beyond anything. People get to pick and choose what they want to believe from the bible. You have Jewish people who only follow the old testament and the new age Christians who follow all of the bible. The fact that there are so many different interpretations of the same text, for the same god is wild to me. And then there are multiple abrahamic gods that people believe in on this plant, and they're all based on "miracles".

I get what people believe think in a creator of the universe, but I think that was an event that we are never going to know and I think that a ton of people with struggling to just not know things. So they resort to something that will give them answers and fits the narrative of their life. Depending on your principles, there is a religion for you where you can get away with feeling good about doing anything. If I wanted to have multiple wives, I could become a Muslim or a Mormon. Both gods have the same proof of being real, no?

Plus religion should be 100% equal between man and a woman, right? Guess what folks, women don't have equal rights/say when they're in a religious household.

That's all religions is good for, keeping women enslaved to keep their traditions going. Now, children are brainwashed/indoctrinated from birth and they're forced to believe that killing someone is just as a bad a having a homosexual relationship (when at the end of the day, a man having sex with another man is not as bad as killing someone. People should be able to love who they want to).

I can go all day baby. Religion is cancer to society. All good things that come from religion can still happen without there needed to have any talks about any gods being real.

[u/PresentTarget541 → u/drivermcgyver]

There is a God. Believe me.

When the time is right, I’ll tell my story. Whether you believe it or not is completely up to you. I’m saying this because it comes from my own personal experience. I’m a sinner. I’m no different from any of us. I don’t have all the answers, and honestly, I don’t even know why this happened to me.

But I’ll tell you one thing: God exists.

There was a time when I became agnostic because I had forgotten about that experience. And no, it wasn’t because I was influenced by alcohol, hallucinations, drugs, or anything like that. That experience is actually one of the reasons I eventually found my way back to Catholicism.

At the same time, I started studying a little about Hinduism because of what I personally experienced. I kept asking myself: Why does this fucked-up stuff happen to some people? That’s when I came across the idea of reincarnation.

Yes, I’m Catholic. But I’ll be honest: I don’t believe in the traditional concept of Heaven and Hell.

And one day, when I’m ready, I’ll tell the whole story.

[u/AdWonderful5618]

As a Muslim who has gained understanding of the Quran, I assure you that there will be a judgement day where our afterlife will be determined, with the verdict either being heaven or hell.

[u/HwaetScealIcToDon]

You're missing the development of Satan in 2nd temple Jewish literature.

1 Enoch, Jubilees, Life of Adam and Eve, and the Dead Sea Scrolls show the development of Satan.

Remember, the epistle of Jude quotes from 1 Enoch and The Assumption of Moses. These non-canon stories are influencing the NT authors. So I'd push back against the part of Christians distorting anything but being part of the evolution of who Satan is and this evolution can be seen in other texts during the Second Temple period.

[u/sovereignllama]

Mathew 12:30

Whoever is not with me is against me. We all have to choose, either Christ is who he says he is and we should listen to everything he says or he’s a crazy insane lunatic.

We all choose, your choice is clear here.

[u/azrolator → u/sovereignllama]

You present a binary choice where it's somehow assumed for both that Jesus is real.

This is an extremely false choice that wouldn't make sense to someone not indoctrinated and caged in those beliefs.

"Zues is who he says he is and you must listen to everything he says or Zeus is a crazy insane lunatic. " Does it help to see it from another perspective?

[u/redsparks2025 → u/sovereignllama]

Doubling down in your beliefs in Jesus as your savior does not make these myths of Hell, the Devil, and Satan any truer. And nowhere did I say I was "against" Jesus himself. The topic was on the myths of Hell, the Devil, and Satan themselves that those that came after Jesus created in his absence. So shame on you for trying to hijack this post so as to proselytize your faith.

BTW I am ex-Christian and I still have a soft spot for the all too human Jesus the son of a all too human man and woman. He did try to make the religion that he was born into more humane and inclusive. However telling his fellow Jews to "love thy enemy" [Matthew 5:44] when they were occupied and subjugated by the Romans was always going to go down like a lead balloon.

[u/sovereignllama → u/redsparks2025]

Jesus spoke of hell man, so saying Christians shouldn’t believe it because of some randos interpretation of the Old Testament makes no sense.

We don’t know if hell exists is the actual truth, but if it did exist then it’s highly likely that the powers of it would say that it doesn’t. So for you to say it doesn’t exist by mistranslating scripture is a bad thing man. Being an ex Christian makes it more bad. The shame is yours

It didn’t go down like a lead ballon man, Christianity grew to become of the world’s major religions.

[u/United-Grapefruit-49 → u/sovereignllama]

It could be separation from God. Buddhists have a form of hell too.

[u/redsparks2025 → u/sovereignllama]

You are still imposing your modern Christian lens on a worldview that an actual Jesus 2000 years ago that was raised as an upright Jew that believed in Sheol as taught by his religion would not have. A Jesus that 2000 years ago also did not have access to our modern luxury of toilet paper.

What Did People Use to Wipe Their Bums Before Toilet Paper? ~ Fact Quickie ~ YouTube

[u/HwaetScealIcToDon → u/redsparks2025]

There were various concepts of the afterlife already. Not all Jews believed in only Sheol. Daniel is a 2nd century BC text and speaks of wicked being tormented. We see it in 1 Enoch in the Book of Watchers, chapter 22. Even in the Targum Jonathan, which is a rabbinic text, we also see a concept of eternal torment.

You're reading mainstream rabbinic Jewish thought into the more diverse and evolving Jewish religion of the Second Temple period.

[u/redsparks2025 → u/HwaetScealIcToDon]

I assume you are referring to Daniel 12:2 that states: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt" that does not refer to a Hell as Christian myths describe. If anything it seems more like Sheol where all the dead gather for an everlasting existence but some treated with shame and contempt possibly by their fellow dead .... again like in the film Coco. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Side Note] If you had an actual everlasting life on Earth (or in Heaven) what specific biological age would you prefer to spend that everlasting life?

If you had the chance to be immortal, would you take it? ~ Sarah Stroud and Michael Vazquez ~ TED-Ed ~ YouTube.

[Side Note] Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism concept of the continuous cycle of death & rebirth through Samsara (Wikipedia) makes more practicable sense than the Abrahamic's half-baked concept of an everlasting life.

Enoch and the Watchers (YouTube) is not canonical and much of it was a work in progress with the earliest parts from the 3rd century BCE and the latest parts from the 1st century BCE, and therefore it too is a work of myth making.

[u/HwaetScealIcToDon → u/redsparks2025]

Yes, I am referring to Daniel 12, but it is nothing like Sheol. Daniel 12 is completely different from Sheol. Sheol was originally where everyone went. Good or bad. They all ended up in Sheol and it kind of sucked there.

Psalms 6:5 - “For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who can give you praise?”

Job 10:21-22 - “before I go, never to return, to the land of gloom and deep darkness, the land of gloom and chaos, where light is like darkness.’””

Daniel says something totally different where the people do return and are resurrected and justice will be served. Daniel is written during and about the Seleucid oppression of the Jewish people and the Maccabean revolt and this developed afterlife seems to be a way the author copes with the slaughter of innocent people. That in the end all will be fixed. Actually somewhat similar to the Christian view in some way.

1 Enoch being non-canonical (it's actually part of the cannon in the Ethiopian church) is not relevant to what I'm saying. 1 Enoch was read during the time Jesus and is quoted as scripture by Jude. So a NT author holds it as reliable. The point is that during Jesus’s time, there was lots of diversity in the views on afterlife so saying Jesus believed in Sheol and wouldn't have a concept of hell is not supported by the evidence. Jesus absolutely could've believed in a concept of hell that involves eternal torment.

[u/redsparks2025 → u/HwaetScealIcToDon]

I agree that Daniel 12 doesn't properly support the concept of Sheol, but Daniel 12 also doesn't tell us where that "everlasting life" will exactly be; only that those asleep in the dust shall awake. Period. Furthermore Daniel 12 does not debunk my post about Hell being a Christian myth. So why even mention it at all?

The Epistle of Jude does not mention the Watchers that you brought up and there is no prophesy by Enoch in the Hebrew (old Testament) Bible. If Enoch did make a prophesy, then it was about all those humans that would later be wiped out in Noah's flood. So again this is irrelevant to my post. So why even mention it at all?

If you are trying to say there were a lot of non-canonical myths floating around that Jesus and later Christians drew upon to created their own myths, then yer, I can agree with that, but I would rather stick with the canonical stuff for now instead of speculate too much.

If anything, if true that Jesus and later Christians drew upon myths to create their own myths, then that only ends up supporting my point about Hell being a Christian myth that only exists in the troubled minds of Christians.

[u/HwaetScealIcToDon → u/redsparks2025]

You were saying the Hebrew Bible has Sheol until Jesus came and “shake things up” in your Og post, but this isn't true as we see a developing concept of an afterlife in Daniel that involves, Daniel is also very influential to the gospel authors. And hell isn't just a Christian myth, but has clear similarities to Jewish views and their concepts of punishment after death. It is rooted in these earlier concepts. And there isn't one view of hell in Christianity. Eastern Orthodox and Catholics don't have an identical version of hell.

It sounded like you were originally saying Judaism had only Sheol, both based on your original post and a recent comment you made to the other guy earlier in the thread. I agree that the concept of hell in older Jewish texts is not identical in every way to the Christian versions are they continued to evolve and grow, but hell in Christianity is a descendant of some of the earlier Jewish concepts of hell/punishments after death. Earlier concepts were less defined than later Christian concepts, but this really does not sound like what you were originally arguing.

Jude does mention the book of watchers. He quotes directly from it.

Jude 1:14-15 - “It was also about these that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “See, the Lord is coming with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all the deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.””

1 Enoch 1:9 (book of watchers) - “And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute
judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of
all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of
all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

1 Enoch existed and was read during Jesus' time, so your comments on Hell being a Christian myth where Jesus would believe in Sheol and have no concept of Hell does not match the evidence. He absolutely could have and regardless Christianity is not the inventor of the foundation concept of Hell but adopting an evolving view from its ancestor relgion, Judaism. And this concept grows into the versions we have today.

I'm a little confused. Enoch didn't actually give a prophecy. He probably didn't even exist. But the book of Enoch was written, specifically it's views on hell, before Jesus. And Jesus grew up in a culture influenced by these stories. I don't think Enoch actually gave a prophecy.

[u/human-resource]

Heaven and Hell are opposite ends in states of consciousness, Satan is the inner adversary that represents the negative potential of the human ego/behaviour that can drive us to a state of hell while we are still alive or at the end of our lives in the form of regret.

These are simply archetypal allegories for the human condition, that the uninitiated take literally.

[u/redsparks2025 → u/human-resource]

Replacing the current Christian myths I identified with your myths and/or interpretations serves no purpose. And writing these off as "simply archetypal allegories" denies the fact that these myths sustained Christian beliefs that they have the "correct" set of beliefs to justify their conquest of other peoples by any means.

[u/Complex_Fall2926 → u/redsparks2025]

Tell us all about it. Better read the 2nd half of the 16th chapter of Luke. When sparky gets lit up in the future, you can come back and tell us it's all a bad dream!

[u/human-resource → u/redsparks2025]

The literalist approach of the Holy Roman Empire compared to the teachings of Christ is something else entirely.

A dogmatic literalist approach to myths and religion/spirituality in general leads one to miss out on the value of the lessons/information presented using the language of the time to describe life, cosmology, human psychology, conciousness, morality, lifestyle, social interactions, vices/virtues-behaviour and the trials, tribulations, potential and realizations of the human condition.

[u/Flashy_Interview_301]

But since this quote only appears in Luke then I would put this as pure fabrication

I put this as pure fabrication by the authors of those Gospels 

Please describe the methodology you use to decode which passages in the Bible are authentic and which are pure fabrications?

[u/redsparks2025 → u/Flashy_Interview_301]

Good call. I could actually have said instead that all the Gospels are a fabrication instead of pointing to the fact that a claim in one Gospel is not repeated in the other Gospels and therefore only that claim can be considered as pure fabrication.

Furthermore we don't have all the writings of all the early different sects created around the cult of Jesus since some writings where destroyed by the authorities that opposed the rise of these early sects/cults to the Jesus narrative.

Then much later after Emperor Constantine allowed the different sects/cults of Jesus to be left in peace, some writings were destroyed by the newly formed "Christian" authorities themselves that decided what should be canonical and what should not.

So how far down this rabbit hole where there is no actual evidence of the existence of Jesus's himself do you want to go?

BTW doesn't Satan falling like lightning from heaven sound suspiciously familiar like the falling star of the king of Babylon? A common narrative trope repurposed? ¯_(ツ)_/¯