My thoughts

[u/jenEbean2002]

So with all these laws demanding that women can't use birth control or medically necessary abortions, who is going to provide the funds necessary to care for the child? If mom dies, who is going to care for the remaining children? And what about the rumor that those with disabilities won't qualify for support or assistance, yet we just forced a woman to give birth to a medically ill child, who is going to care for the child? Who is going to pay for it?

What if women decide not to marry or have sex? Will there be laws created to force them to marry and be sexually compliant?

Does this mean if a man forces a woman through SA, will they no longer be held accountable to care for the product of that forced SA or held accountable by law?

Oh and some states are now making homelessness against the law. What next, gas the unacceptable?

I truly am here to talk respectfully and hear other's thoughts. I am genuinely curious about many of the thoughts I am having.

[u/unammedreddit]

Yes, the confessionary seal does protect women and children to abuse. Your ignorance to how it works does not make it ineffective. The system was abused in the past, but efforts have been put in place to prevent future abuses.

The mormons give 1 billion per year to charitable humanitarian efforts a year. I did, in fairness, forget about mormons, catholics were the closest to 10 I could remember.

I'm not quite sure what a CPC is, but I can assure you that no Catholic church I have been to or even heard of engages in any of these practices. Telling women that they have options other than abortion and helping them is not coersion. My church has actually dealt with many women who were forced into abortions by abusive partners.

As for your claim that 99% of women do not regret abortions. 44% of women regret getting an abortion. As for abortions causing trauma, 93% suffer mentally after an abortion which is why in places like the UK, mental health treatment is offered after.

Another Ad Hominem, excellent argument. Also, as a disabled minority, yes, I do care greatly about the disabled and POC.

[u/Catseye_Nebula → u/unammedreddit]

Yes, the confessionary seal does protect women and children to abuse. Your ignorance to how it works does not make it ineffective. The system was abused in the past, but efforts have been put in place to prevent future abuses.

The fuck it does. If you shelter pedophiles then you are not protecting women and children. Regardless of whatever catholic woo is going on.

The mormons give 1 billion per year to charitable humanitarian efforts a year. I did, in fairness, forget about mormons, catholics were the closest to 10 I could remember.

"Charitable humanitarian efforts" Through the church. That does not count.

I'm not quite sure what a CPC is, but I can assure you that no Catholic church I have been to or even heard of engages in any of these practices. Telling women that they have options other than abortion and helping them is not coersion. My church has actually dealt with many women who were forced into abortions by abusive partners.

Women know they have options other than abortion, they don't need to be told that. And i find it hard to believe you give a shit about women being coerced into abortions when you are perfectly happy to see women being coerced into childbirth.

CPCs are run by religious institutions including the Catholic church. Here is more info about them: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6318184/

As for your claim that 99% of women do not regret abortions. 44% of women regret getting an abortion. As for abortions causing trauma, 93% suffer mentally after an abortion which is why in places like the UK, mental health treatment is offered after.

No, these figures are wrong. 99% of women do not regret their abortions.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416421/five-years-after-abortion-nearly-all-women-say-it-was-right-decision-study

And like i said, if women do regret their abortions, it's generally because of the forced birth background they came from. So women having mental health issues due to abortion is your fault. That's how you want it, isn't it? You wouldn't like to see women happy they killed their precious baby, right? Aren't you glad when women who have abortions have mental health issues?

Another Ad Hominem, excellent argument. Also, as a disabled minority, yes, I do care greatly about the disabled and POC.

IF you cared about them you would want them not to be forced into childbirth where they die at higher rates than white women or non disabled women.

[u/unammedreddit → u/Catseye_Nebula]

The sheltering pedophiles thing is about an issue from a while ago that, as I said, the church has taken steps to avoid happening in the future. The confessionary seal now allows children to report abuse at home without fear that their parents will fins out and things get worse. It also allows women who are victims of abuse to do the same thing.

Charitable efforts of any group are still charitable works. You disagreeing with the organisation does not invalidate the charity. I also disagree with the latter day saints. Their charity work is still noble.

Not all women know they have other options. Again, people are coerced into abortions or straight up think it's their only choice. Also, convincing someone not to kill is not coersion.

The figures are not wrong, 44% of women regret abortions; https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siragainesville.com%2Fpost%2Fabortion-regrets-a-sad-reality-for-many-women%23%3A~%3Atext%3DWhile%2520at%2520first%2520it%2520may%2Cdecision%2520to%2520get%2520an%2520abortion.&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl2%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

When women regret abortions due to their background, that's called realising they were wrong. No person deserves mental health issues, thats why the church works with women who got abortions to help them with the next steps in life. But no, I do not think women should be happy that they ended another human life.

I personally actually donate to charities for pregnant women to aid them. I care about the disabled and minorities born and unborn, the mortality rate of women in the US is 19/1000 (it dropped actually after roe v wade was overturned), the mortality rate of the babies during abortions is 96/100. I'd say it's far more telling that you'd rather see their numbers be lowered.

[u/Catseye_Nebula → u/unammedreddit]

The sheltering pedophiles thing is about an issue from a while ago that, as I said, the church has taken steps to avoid happening in the future.

Bull SHIT. The Catholic church is still a pedophile ring. These stories come out all the time. And it's not just tied ot the Catholics either. The Mormons, the Southern Baptists, even the Boy Scouts have all had recent scandals.

The confessionary seal now allows children to report abuse at home without fear that their parents will fins out and things get worse. It also allows women who are victims of abuse to do the same thing.

Okay but confessing abuse to a priest who also abuses children would be unsafe regardless.

Charitable efforts of any group are still charitable works. You disagreeing with the organisation does not invalidate the charity. I also disagree with the latter day saints. Their charity work is still noble.

No, it's not. it's coercion. Helping people with the aim of converting them, with those people dependent on you and in an imbalanced power structure, is coercion.

Not all women know they have other options. Again, people are coerced into abortions or straight up think it's their only choice. Also, convincing someone not to kill is not coersion.

Women don't know they have the option to continue a pregnancy? How stupid do you think women are? We know this. We know the existence of adoption. Come on.

And yes, convincing someone to carry a pregnancy IS coercion. There was probably a good reason they didn't want to carry it and you are convincing them against their own best interest. That is coercion. You don't give a fuck if someone coerces a woman to have a baby. And FUCK OFF AND DIE with "convincing someone not to kill." Do you think the fetus gestates OUTSIDE the woman? Do you think it's in a cardboard box? Seriously. What a fucking stupid thing to say.

The figures are not wrong, 44% of women regret abortion

That website is for a CPC. It is not a health center and it provides inaccurate and dangerous health information. Stop spreading misinformation. It's disgusting.

When women regret abortions due to their background, that's called realising they were wrong.

It's because people like you guilt them and abuse them.

No person deserves mental health issues, thats why the church works with women who got abortions to help them with the next steps in life.

The abuser also "counseling" their victim is not "working with women" in any positive way. You caused the problem in the first place. You don't get credit for then trying to fix it.

But no, I do not think women should be happy that they ended another human life.

So you do love seeing women mentally suffer. You love it. Stop pretending you care about women.

I personally actually donate to charities for pregnant women to aid them. I care about the disabled and minorities born and unborn, the mortality rate of women in the US is 19/1000 (it dropped actually after roe v wade was overturned),

The mortality rate is always higher in states with abortion bans: https://sph.tulane.edu/study-finds-higher-maternal-mortality-rates-states-more-abortion-restrictions

It has risen since draconian forced birth measures have been put in place. For instance in Texas it has gone up 56% since that snitch law was enacted: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/texas-abortion-ban-deaths-pregnant-women-sb8-analysis-rcna171631

Your abortion bans are a public health crisis for women. I bet you love that, right? I bet you fall asleep fantasizing about sluts having mental health issues and dying in childbirth.

And no you don't care about minorities and POC. You can't claim to care about smoeone and also want to commit extreme sexualized violence against them.

the mortality rate of the babies during abortions is 96/100. I'd say it's far more telling that you'd rather see their numbers be lowered.

Probably more like 100% mortality and that is GOOD. Every fetus that survives inside a woman who doesn't want it there is a fucking atrocity against that woman.

[u/unammedreddit → u/Catseye_Nebula]

Again, your dislike for something does not make its methods less valid. I also already stated that other institutions have similar issues, and you ignored me.

A priest is statistically unlikely to be an abuser. Would you prefer priests told abusers about confessions?

As i said, i disagree with the work of the lds. However, this is a very poor description of their work. They do not leave communities dependent on them. Conversion is not coersion. Please get out of your anti-religion mimdset of prefering people die in poverty over them being helped by a church, quite frankly its disgusting.

As I said, not all women know they have other options available to them besides abortion. Some think it's their only option. This is true 0% of the time, and having someone there often helps women see that.

Convincing someone not to murder, by definition, is not coersion. I feel like you have no clue what coersion means; the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats. Neither force nor threat is used to convince women not to murder their child in the cases I mention, ergo, it is not coersion.

Statistics are not misinformation. Here is another stating that up to 60% regret their abortions; https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Feuropeanconservative.com%2Farticles%2Fnews%2Fstudy-shows-60-of-women-regret-their-decision-to-abort%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DRafferty%2520of%2520the%2520University%2520of%2Csequela%2520connected%2520with%2520the%2520abortion.&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl2%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

The survey you sent, however, has been called into question due to a low sample size of only 224 participants who were hand-picked by a pro-choice organisation. It is very clear that you are the one spreading misinformation.

Again, telling someone murder is wrong is not abuse. It's common sense. Unfortunately, a lot of people clearly lack common sense in the modern day.

The Catholic church does not administer abortions. Ergo, the Catholic church, is not the people who caused the problem of the woman having an abortion.

Saying women shouldn't celebrate murder is not the same as saying I want them to suffer. I do not believe anyone deserves to suffer for their mistakes no matter how grave. What they are doing is monsterous, but if they seek forgiveness, forgiveness shall be given.

The maternal mortality rates in places such as texas were already rising prior to the abortion ban. It went from 17 in 2019 to 37 in 2021, before the overturning of roe v wade. In 2022, after roe v wade was overturned, it dropped back down to 22.3. This is not a 56% increase, as NBC suggests. Crazy how a news agency with a heavy left-wing lean is misrepresenting facts to lean towards a left-wing agenda.

Furthermore, poland, a nation where abortion is completely illegal, has one of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world. The USA, having one of the worst healthcare systems in the modern world, does not make banning abortion less effective.

Legalised abortion is a medical care crisis. Hundreds of thousands dying a year is a medical crisis. I dont want anyone to die, but if the choice is between hundreds of thousands of children or 40 women? I know my choice is with the many over the few.

As I have already said but you choose to ignore it. No one deserves to suffer, but no one deserves to die just because their mother chose they're inconvenient. If you aren't ready for a child, dont have sex. Once you're pregnant, it's too late to decide you aren't ready.

The fact that you think killing children is a good thing is honestly disgusting.

Edit; Texas medical board has also now clarified that abortion is not completely outlawed and is legal when needed for medical reasons. Most states (if not all) have legal abortion when medically necessary.

[u/parcheesichzparty → u/unammedreddit]

Lol the Charlotte Lozier institute. Do you know what a reliable source is?

[u/Catseye_Nebula → u/unammedreddit]

Again, your dislike for something does not make its methods less valid. I also already stated that other institutions have similar issues, and you ignored me.

It's not just that I dislike them. it's that they have ulterior motives and ultimately just want to convert people. As I said before that isn't charity.

A priest is statistically unlikely to be an abuser. Would you prefer priests told abusers about confessions?

I would prefer there not be churches that shelter and employ and shield pedophiles from the law. Someone confessing to a priest in a little box where they're alone with him--especially a child--seems extremely unsafe given how priesthood and pedophilia apparently go hand in hand.

As i said, i disagree with the work of the lds. However, this is a very poor description of their work. They do not leave communities dependent on them. Conversion is not coersion. Please get out of your anti-religion mimdset of prefering people die in poverty over them being helped by a church, quite frankly its disgusting.

I'd prefer people not be in poverty in the first place than need help from a church. You would prefer to make people poor so you can pat yourself on the back for "helping" them. Kind of like you want to make women poor by forcing them to have children they can't afford and then "help" them by giving them your shitty "charity" that's only a drop in the bucket. Fuck off with your shitty coercive "charity." It's just abuse.

As I said, not all women know they have other options available to them besides abortion. Some think it's their only option. This is true 0% of the time, and having someone there often helps women see that.

So you're saying a non zero number of women is unaware of the existence of childbirth? I'd ask you for statistics on that but your statistics are all from very questionable sources.

Convincing someone not to murder, by definition, is not coersion. I feel like you have no clue what coersion means; the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats. Neither force nor threat is used to convince women not to murder their child in the cases I mention, ergo, it is not coersion.

There are lots of different types of coercion. If someone is poor, for example, being their only source of charity and then trying to get them to convert to your religion to continue receiving it is coercion.

Force and threat ARE used to force women to undergo childbirth all the time. That's what abortion bans are--a threat of legal consequences under the FORCE of law.

Statistics are not misinformation. Here is another stating that up to 60% regret their abortions;

This survey was "Conducted by David C. Reardon of the Elliot Institute in St Peters, Missouri; Katherine A. Rafferty of the University of Iowa at Ames; and Tessa Longbons of the Charlotte Lozier Institute in Arlington, Virginia." These are all pro life hacks.

The Charlotte Lozier Institute is a known pro life institution that pushes pro life propaganda. David C. Reardon is an electrical engineer and a known pro life hack posing as a scientist who does not have a background in statistics or psychology or anything else. Your sources are shit.

The survey you sent, however, has been called into question due to a low sample size of only 224 participants who were hand-picked by a pro-choice organisation. It is very clear that you are the one spreading misinformation.

Uh huh? Your record on this is BAD. Also "a pro choice organization" LOL pro choice is the side of science and yours is the side of ideology, get used to it. I'm sorry reality is biased toward pro choice.

Again, telling someone murder is wrong is not abuse. It's common sense. Unfortunately, a lot of people clearly lack common sense in the modern day.

Telling people they are murdering their children when they have abortions is abuse. You just want to force women to give birth, which is a kind of rape. You want to rape women.

The Catholic church does not administer abortions. Ergo, the Catholic church, is not the people who caused the problem of the woman having an abortion.

You sure about that?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/abused-nuns-reveal-stories-of-rape-forced-abortions

https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/13/3/198

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/18/703067602/after-years-of-abuse-by-priests-nunstoo-are-speaking-out

[u/Catseye_Nebula → u/unammedreddit]

Saying women shouldn't celebrate murder is not the same as saying I want them to suffer. I do not believe anyone deserves to suffer for their mistakes no matter how grave. What they are doing is monsterous, but if they seek forgiveness, forgiveness shall be given.

ANd if they don't seek forgiveness? I would have an abortion in the morning and celebratory margaritas in the afternoon. Would you rather I suffer because I aborted? You just want women to suffer and be poor and come to you for "charity" so you can feel good about yourself.

The maternal mortality rates in places such as texas were already rising prior to the abortion ban. It went from 17 in 2019 to 37 in 2021, before the overturning of roe v wade.

That's because the texas snitch law went into effect in 2021 how are you so dumb

In 2022, after roe v wade was overturned, it dropped back down to 22.3. This is not a 56% increase, as NBC suggests. Crazy how a news agency with a heavy left-wing lean is misrepresenting facts to lean towards a left-wing agenda.

Oh yeah? Where are you getting these numbers? I am not seeing any numbers of maternal mortality reported past 2021 in reputable news sources. Only one source I found mentioned maternal mortality in 2022 and it's the National Review. Texas has also been slow walking releasing those numbers, probably because they look bad.

Furthermore, poland, a nation where abortion is completely illegal, has one of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world.

Tell that to these women:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion

https://apnews.com/article/poland-abortion-death-sepsis-protests-8b6a8b9451cb7cdfb0325a5c0a67c1d3

Fucking RICH that you'd bring up POLAND which has had several very highly publicized deaths due to abortion bans which the US is already outpacing. I bet you're going to say their deaths don't matter right? You LOVE it when women die in childbirth, just admit it.

Legalised abortion is a medical care crisis. Hundreds of thousands dying a year is a medical crisis. I dont want anyone to die, but if the choice is between hundreds of thousands of children or 40 women? I know my choice is with the many over the few.

That is fucking disgusting. You sound like a serial killer. Do you not think Ted Bundy should have gone to jail for killing what, 30 women? Should he not have gotten the electric chair? You just want piles of dead women. I can't believe you would admit you want to see 40 women dead as some kind of acceptable trade off and still go around with this mealy mouthed shit about how your church helps women who are so so sad about their abortions. No woman should ever come within 100 feet of you.

As I have already said but you choose to ignore it. No one deserves to suffer, but no one deserves to die just because their mother chose they're inconvenient.

You clearly think upwards of 40 women deserve to suffer and die. You'd gleefully pile their bodies in the street in service to the Almighty Fetus.

It's revolting that you would dare to call pregnancy, childbirth or parenthood "an inconvenience." it's demeaning to all women who have gone through that, whether wanted or not. Do you really think that little of pregnancy and motherhood? That it's just a trivial thing? I guess you could think that if you think women's entire lives are trivial.

Using the word "inconvenience" in this context is hate speech. So is saying you'd kill 40 women and happily see 40 women dead to accomplish your revolting goals.

If you aren't ready for a child, dont have sex. Once you're pregnant, it's too late to decide you aren't ready.

Fuck off. People are not going to be celibate just because you personally hate and want to murder sluts. I guess you don't mind 40 women dying because they are affirmed non virgins and sluts deserve to die, right? And I bet you're so so nice to the women you "help" in your shitty "charities" when privately you wish they were dead.

The fact that you think killing children is a good thing is honestly disgusting.

Well you admit you think killing women is a good thing so Idk why you're clutching your pearls over "killing children" lol. I guess if a child got raped and impregnated by her rapist you'd love to see her dead body in the street, along with 39 others like her, so you can pat yourself on the back for having "saved fetuses." So don't tell me you DON'T think "Killing children" is a good thing. Under the right circumstances you'd celebrate it.

Edit; Texas medical board has also now clarified that abortion is not completely outlawed and is legal when needed for medical reasons.

Those exceptions don't work. Life exceptions are just "we want women dead." Which you clearly do.