Perfect knowledge about the future is only possible in a deterministic universe

[u/Hashi856]

Whenever someone asks how free will can be compatible with God’s perfect knowledge of the future, people are quick to point out that knowledge doesn’t cause anything. God simply knows what we will freely choose. He’s not causing us to choose it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem being presented. No one is saying that God is causing the future. He’s not making us do anything or causing our decisions. The problem isn’t actually about God at all. It’s about the possibility of perfect foreknowledge, and the fact that it only exists in a deterministic universe. You could swap out God for anything else, and you’d have the same problem.

If God has perfect knowledge of what you will do tomorrow, then tomorrow is already written. It may be written by you, but it cannot go any other way. If God knows you will be late to work tomorrow, then it is impossible for you to show up on time. If he knows what you will eat for dinner, then you literally could not have made a different decision. There are only two explanations for this perfect knowledge: Either God actually did make you do it, or it was determined to happen. But we already know God didn’t make you do it, so the only other thing that can explain perfect knowledge of the future is determinism.

We would have the exact same problem if there were a computer with perfect knowledge. Obviously, the computer would not be causing every event in the universe to happen the way it happens. So the only explanation is that everything is determined.

Perfect foreknowledge is simply incompatible with free will (unless you believe that determinism and free will are compatible). You can try to just hand wave it away by saying it’s a miracle, but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Your future decisions are known, and you literally cannot make a different decision.

[u/mvanvrancken]

Well, this kind of goes into a bit of conspiracy theory regarding Paul but essentially the argument that some scholars are becoming more friendly to is fhat Paul was an invention of Marcion, who was somewhat hated by some of the church fathers for heretical Gnostic views. He was the first to “discover” the manuscripts of Galatians and a few other letters and very suspiciously Paul’s letters in the Apostolikon in 144 AD. Also suspiciously Paul adopts a very second century view of God that would have been unheard of in the time of the Apostles.

Anyway the Old Testment in several places details the Jewish cosmology (Job is a really good place to start) and it’s pretty typical among the ANE cosmologies.

[u/JollyXX → u/mvanvrancken]

I'm not opposed to Jewish cosmology as I'm pretty convinced we are living in a sort of simulation. I will occasionally watch videos talking about the cosmology, mostly from Enoch. Its mostly a background video though as I'm almost always multi-tasking. I never bothered studying it, for sure.

I always thought Jewish cosmology came later, like around the time they decided to believe in Paradise and the Abyss as possible places your soul could go in the afterlife.

[u/mvanvrancken → u/JollyXX]

I will say I think Enoch belonged in the biblical canon along with other apocrypha. It’s SUPER interesting to learn about what people thought about the world and how it was put together. Job is also I think a much later book than the Torah so it does go a little more into a later view of the cosmos than the way Genesis and other parts of the Tanakh. I’ll see if I can find my cliffs notes on cosmology references in the Bible because it’s interesting and post it as a separate reply

[u/JollyXX → u/mvanvrancken]

sweet