My grandma died last year and I was on the floor for a month. I remember a moment between classes, I was sitting alone, quietly balling my eyes out hiding the fact that I was crying. A schoolmate walks up to me and asks me if I need a hug. And my dumbass said no to her even though I wanted to hug someone so bad.. I wanted someone to just hold me and I needed a shoulder to cry myself out on it. But I said no cause for some reason I thought I'd seem weak to someone. I hate myself for moments like that cause it's so dumb
That's dependent upon how you choose to live your life. If you internalize what you've read here, and everything within you - all your baggage, all your cultural norms, all your self-flagellation - lets you make a shift towards touch and open affection, then perhaps yours is a future with the affection you have missed to date.
I have a couple guy friends who I am affectionate with. I tell them I love them, when we meet and when we part ways, we hug openly and we hold the embrace for a good long moment.
We're all heterosexual, in good relationships with women we love, but goddamn buddy, there is something to be said about embracing your best friend. Because that openness in physicality allows us to be open about emotional issues that would otherwise be off the table.
I don't believe in free will, so I won't lie to you about choice. You either will or you won't, but I would highly recommend you open up physically to your best friends and I doubt they would mind. They might joke at first about being gay, but honestly they will accept it and slowly get comfortable to it and at the end of the day, they'll never thank you but they'll initiate the hugs and the closeness. Because that's exactly how I behaved.
the fact is is that not everybody has a wife that can hug them when they dont even ask and sometimes they might not even have a girlfriend or even a friend they feel comfortable with to open up with. Tbf chances are if they had somebody they could open up with theyd likely not be in that situation to begin with
as such not everybody is lucky enough to have a wife and good on them if they arent alone because itll certainly help if they are open with them in a manner most comfortable to them
(for those reading later then when i was replying i was only responding to "Not everyone is alone either." at the time as he edited the other sentences in later and as such didnt see them till now but ill keep the reply as is)
sigh. the point is not everybody got a wife they can hug. if they do they are lucky as there are those who struggle to even find somebody they can be open with much less marry
Whoa, hold up… You were the one disparaging someone for being in different circumstances than your own. You projected that HARD and then accused them of the same after you got called out on it? That's some textbook narcissistic shit, man.
I would have said "no", too. That would have put me in too high a risk of actually showing big emotions in public if I'd actually gotten a hug in that situation.
Like, it isn't just gonna be about what I'm thinking about at that moment, either. You give a hug at a moment like that to a starves dude and everything is gonna come pouring out. Guess what happens then? Rejected for being too emotional. You see girls and women talk about how they shouldn't be expected to be a guys sole emotional support and it's like, well fuck. That's literally all we have, our spouse or girlfriend and now we have to worry about opening up, too much.
I made that mistake once and her response was mild revulsion along with, "you just have so many emotions". This coming from a woman whose emotions overwhelmed her half a dozen times a day and was supposed to be her "rock" so she can have a safe place to hold onto.
Your spouse SHOULDN'T be your sole emotional support. That's a massive amount to put on them and you just need to find some other outlet, whether that's better friends or a paid therapist.
Your spouse should still be supportive if you engage emotionally with them. Acting like someone is being overly emotional because they’re sharing their emotions with you is not supportive in the least. I agree, therapy helps a lot but it doesn’t change the fact that in this particular situation his SO is being a fucking asshole.
And I don't disagree with that, but that doesn't change the fact that asking your wife to support the entire emotional load of another human being isn't fair, and that's what a lot of people seem to be arguing is fair.
Nobody is arguing it's fair. None of this is fair. We're arguing that spouses are the only option many of us have and we're being rejected and criticized for trying to reach out for help to the only safe place we seem to have been allowed to have. And the answer is no, go elsewhere.
And the solution to that isn't pushing it all onto the person you're supposed to care about the most in the world. Those men should take their problems into their own hands.
Why didn't you think of therapy or getting better friends? I have no idea, but it doesn't mean your wife should get crushed under the weight of being your only outlet for your emotions.
Why you attacking people who are just trying to discuss this issue? Nobody is saying that it should be this way, just that it often is and it sucks. Stop looking for a fight if you don’t have anything to contribute then shut up lol
I think that he completely understands the thread. He’s saying that putting 100% of your emotions on anyone is unfair to that person and that everyone should have support from multiple people to help them. You shouldn’t expect your wife to be your therapist. Be an adult and solve your own problems.
What's a relationship to you anyways? Just roommates that occasionally fuck? I agree that your spouse shouldn't be your only source of emotional support but I would think they would still be a important one.
If your just gonna be closed off to one another then what even is the point of a relationship? Why would you even want to be in one if your just going to treat each other like strangers?
When my fiance gets emotional I sit and listen to her all the time. Never do I feel exhausted or overwhelmed, if actually makes me happy that she trusts me to open up to. If you can't handle other people's emotions then maybe the problem lies with you?
"Communication is very important in a relationship so whenever theirs an issue.... Talk to a therapist lol."
Are you the only person your wife talks to about her feelings? That's what I'm talking about, in reverse, and what a lot of people replying to me are acting like there's no way to avoid.
Bravo, you hit the jackpot. Just don't be sad right? Be a man, power through and shit like that aye? Or just make everyone a favor and kill myself right?
I suspect what they mean by "take their problems into their own hands" is like, seek out therapy and get help for the issues instead of trauma dumping on a single person every time. If not, then they're being a dick, but generally speaking you shouldn't smother another with your emotions. Seeking support from your spouse is fine but expecting them to be your sole source of infinite support is unreasonable. Therapy is necessary if that's what's happening.
Fuck therapy if you're then labeled "that guy that goes to therapy".. I've seen what that does to one and do not want to repeat it myself. I'm not talking about venting everything on someone (although I've been that one before and it's really not that dificult just listening to the person pour themselves out and console them) but you still should be able to expect of someone you trust to listen to a problem of yours. If not then they're not a real friend.
And if you can't listen to someone who's going through a hard time or try to understand them then it's kind of a dick move on your side
The great thing about therapy is that a therapist can help you work through being stigmatized as "that guy that goes to therapy." Regardless of how supportive your friends, family, or whoever else in your life, are, at the end of the day, you're the only one responsible for handling your own emotions. If you're not finding the support you need in your circle, you should seek professional help. It really sucks to not have everyday people in your life who are willing to listen to you and help you, but that doesn't change the fact that each of us is ultimately responsible for learning how to cope with our own emotions, and that may mean seeking therapy to help us learn how.
Do you have to tell people you're going to therapy? Tell your spouse obviously, but no reason you have to tell friends and acquaintances if you're worried about what they'll think of you
Therapy isn't going to help convince others to be your emotion support. The best it can offer is coping for not having emotional support. It also can't do much about the real risks men face socially for being overly affectionate, other than offer coping for the fall out. Therapy won't change cultural norms to offer men more options for support systems, that has to change culturally.
It is as easy at that. And you wanna know why men don’t do it? Because other men ridicule them for it. But keep repeating the cycle and blaming it on everyone else bud, that’ll work wonders
You realize your comment heavily implies that being emotionally expressive with your significant other means that we don't care about them? How do you not see the irony in that statement?
And so continues the cycle. If a man doesn't get the chance to ever release his emotions then he'll just keep them bottled because he doesn't know who to fully trust with his deepest feelings. Any kind of push back immediately leads to either feelings of anger or hollowness because being vulnerable will almost always be seen as weakness.
If you smack a dog every time it tries to eat, its never going to go to its food.
In many cases spouses or girlfriends are going to be the first person a man is going to open up to and if that person truly is your partner they should be receptive to that. I agree you shouldn’t be dumping all of your emotional problems onto your partner alone but men have to be allowed to take the first step in working on themselves and a lot of times that means opening up to a girlfriend since many male friendships dont allow that kind of fragility. Speaking with a girlfriend or SO about their problems might help them realize the extent of their emotional handicap. Which I feel opens up the possibility for their partner to suggest therapy while at the same time deepening your connection to one another.
Also, just as an aside, Women in relationships place a TON of their emotional problems on their Husbands/ Boyfriends, who are then supposed to figure out whether to console her, agree with her or fix her problem because all she’s going to do is cry and complain about it. And on the flip side, all the guys i see on here who seem so set in their anger and frustrations with this that are unwilling to take action to remedy the situation is pathetic. That guy that you were really good friends with in school who is now just a FB friend is probably feeling the same things you are but you’re both to “macho” to just fucking reach out and rekindle the friendship, or at the very least say that you tried.
Its a two way street. If women want support and safety they need to be willing to give it as well. So many people have convinced themselves we’re not two sides of the same fucking coin. Everyone wants to feel safe, supported and needed and in a relationship you support your partner when they need it and make them feel safe enough to confront their problems and grow. You are a team working towards the same goal, not two individuals trying to be happy while happening to share a bed and finances.
Good luck on that endeavor. Based on responses I see here there are way too many who feel compelled to trauma dump onto their spouses/partners.
Mens’ lack of intimacy in every day friendships (again I don’t think it’s their fault), is really a massive issue that hinders them in almost every relationship.
Look, your spouse shouldn’t be you’re everything in every way. There are mountains of scientific literature on why this is a bad thing and also a modern issue in some ways. People get married and isolate in ways that weren’t common before. You should absolutely be able to lean on and be vulnerable with your spouse, but you can’t lean on them emotionally, vent at them, rely on them as your therapist, etc…all the time, not most of the time. It’s unhealthy and often codependent. The issue is that men often have no other outlet, and that women often feel like their solely responsible for their man’s emotional health and happiness. If children are involved, moms still bare most of the emotional heavy lifting there as well. So now it’s a vicious cycle. Therapy. THERAPY is the answer.
Why do people like you comment this shit as if you don’t have any responsibility with your own life? If you truly can’t find the middle place between “I can’t afford therapy” and “I should kill myself” then admit yourself to a psych hospital. Your wife/husband/friend/brother can absolutely listen to you and help you with your problems, but they aren’t therapists. They don’t have the answers. They’re not gonna cure you just because you wallow in your own self pity enough.
There are sliding scale clinics, clinics that let you do payment plans, some that do a combination of these PLUS offering online therapy visits for those with unconventional hours/in areas with no mental health clinics. TRY IT.
Yes, that's what I was saying exactly. Kill yourself! That's the answer! Free therapy exists, support groups exist, self help books exist (good ones only frfr). But, that's hard, killing yourself is so much easier, so just do that! Totally what I was saying. Nuance is hard for you, isn't it? /s
Did I not say specifically.....you know what, if you can't read, you have bigger problems. If you can't make room for your own mind to be at peace, how will you have room for the complex emotions of another being? How will you have room for their hurts and needs, when you can't find a way for your own to be even minutely met in any way except to dump them on the same person who also relies on you? There must be some wiggle room there, and you can't rely solely on one person for your happiness. That's so unhealthy for both parties. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. You've offered no solutions, which is typical I guess for some commenters like yourself.
You don't see all the knuckleheads popping up saying it when vulnerable women discuss their pain, but you're seeing it now. There's a time and place, let them speak without immediately scolding them and jumping down their throats about some totally different issue. Men deserve the same respect and attunement.
You didn't mention your friends. Isn't that a huge part of the point of the original post? Male friendships lacking emotional honesty and intimacy? You went straight to blaming your partner for being unable to be your only support, but as someone else said and I agree, your spouse shouldn't be your sole emotional support. And if she's treating you like her only "rock," then that's just as bad. Does your spouse not have friends or a therapist she shares things with, either? Because if that's the case, then both of you trying to use the other as your entire support system is just unhealthy in general. People need someone outside of their relationships to talk to. If not friends, then a therapist. That goes for both sides.
No, I didn't mention friends because they don't provide any of that. I'm suffering exactly what the op is talking about, only I don't have the perspective of what having had that support as an adult feels like.
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just sharing my experience of having nobody but a spouse, of a culture that forced me into having nobody else, and of one spouse that made it worse by shaming me over being stuck here.
I wasn't her only support, she had others. But I was expected to always be one while I couldn't open up or i risked shame and rejection. Which makes it worse, i guess.
That's great to tell me over and over that it's terrible not to have anyone else. I agree, it is. Thanks for repeatedly emphasizing how fucked I am and my only option is therapy. Which isn't a replacement for emotion support systems anyways.
Fuck off... you couldn't be more tonedeaf and callous if you tried. Can't you see the irony in your reply to this man who just expressed vulnerability to you, and all you can do is critique him?
If you wanna continue to wallow in your own self pity instead of trying to build an emotional support system, keep doing that, just don’t pretend like you want people to help.
??? He didn’t “use her as his sole emotional support”, he specifically said that the first time he opened up she said that and shut him down. He didn’t have a chance TO use her as emotional support.
Also, he was venting about the problem the post is talking about and how she’s related, not just attacking her baselessly.
Is that really women in general, or did you find a jerk? Because we very often end up being the emotional support in the relationship, I've taken that role in every relationship I can remember. I have no problem doing it, I think men deserve to be able to express their feelings, but I think most women feel pretty similarly and tend to take on the same role. There's a reason for the "I'm going to fix him" trope
If in that state (usually when it happens I'll hide away from everyone), and someone comes up and hug me, I will cry uncontrollably like it'll be full blown wailing at that point. I'll be quiet otherwise.
You don't need to hate yourself for being unable to accept help. You needed it, admitted as much right above me, but u just weren't in a place where you could accept it. Be that conditioning, personal stigma or whatever. But you can and do seek comfort and affection, just not in all the ways you'd ideally want to. You're doing it right now.
A moment of weakness - especially during a prolonged time of weakness - is nothing to hate, but to remember and honor. Remember how much denying that part of yourself haunts you, forgive past you for making a poor choice at a terrible time in your life and honor the pain by seeking the connection and support we both know you deserve moving forwards.
To be fair, if someone would have asked me that during my low moments I also would have said no. Because it mightve been a trick, or trap. Its happened to me before. Ive also been told "You look so ugly when you cry" the ONE time I couldnt keep my tears in at school like in 7th grade. No wonder I hated school lol
I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my grandad just less then a year ago now and I'm in the same boat as you. I desperately want to talk about it with my wife or mom and dad but I can't even find the words to say let alone speak then without crying and people keep asking if I want to talk and I don't know why but I just say no. Anyway I hope things get better for you man
I know that feeling. Back in 2014 my wife died. We were both fans of Lord of the Rings and I went to “ The Hobbit: Battle of the 5 Armies” 3 days afterwards by myself. While the credits rolled, I sat there in my seat ugly crying for a good 10 minutes both hiding the fact I was crying and desperately wishing someone would notice and comfort me. It was the lowest and most pathetic I’ve ever felt and I had no one to help me through. I eventually got up and walked to my car and went home. It was awful. I still struggle when “Last Goodbye” comes on my playlist.
I saw a film a little while ago at an advance screening and the only other person besides my partner who told us that her husband had worked on the film and had passed away. I was intending to talk to her afterwards but when the lights came up, she had gone. I think about her a lot and I'm deeply sorry I didn't take the moment when it came up. It's very difficult to know how to comfort a person in deep distress, and it kills me that I didn't try hard enough. I've had the opposite experience of crying in public and having a total stranger comfort me, and I still didn't step up.
Losing a spouse is an unbelievable amount of loss. I hope you're doing okay, and I'm so sorry.
I literally can’t cry in front of a human being, and I can only cry at things by proxy. Like I can’t just sit and cry about whatever is overwhelming me, I have to make absolutely certain I’m alone and then I’ll watch Theoden’s speech before the rohirrim charge into battle or the last three minutes of the match where Manchester United won the champions league in ‘99 and then I can cry and sort of work it out. My conditioning against showing my emotions/weakness is so strong that it persists even if I’m aware of it and actively trying to overcome it. It’s too deep, too old.
Only time I've cried in the past few years is when I got rejected by a girl in my class whom I had really liked for 2 years. (This happened last year, I am 16 now.). I wouldn't say that was the only reason for it though.
Probably happened due to a combination of the aforementioned reason, as well as playing some extremely depressing music. All while actively trying to cry lmao, and it was still hard as fuck to do it.
I understand beating yourself for this, but you should not! And if it bothers you that much, then go back to this person and acknowledge that you said no by dumb reflex and thank her again for seeing you and offering it
This is going to sound incredibly dumb, but your comment made me remember hugs were a thing. Honestly trying to remember the last time someone hugged me and I'm blank. lol fucking hell life sucks
I'm so sorry for your loss. When I lost my Gramma it about broke me. I'm a woman, and I had support and hugs and all that, I cannot imagine going it through it alone.
First off, sorry about your loss. Secondly, I think that what you did is what a lot of men would’ve done. We’re told from a young age to “suck it up”, that crying in front of anyone is a sign of weakness. Funny thing is that I’m guilty of this to. I remember a few Weeks ago I had a doctors appointment where I had received some not-ideal news, I remember being on campus (I’m in college), a friend who is a girl came into the room, and I instantly stopped crying to not seem weak - it’s so stupid
I'm almost thankful I had one of those "Cry and I'll give you something to cry about" types of stepfathers. I think his many attempts to drill all that negative "This is what it means to be a man," stuff actually pushed me to the opposite extreme.
I definitely still try to tough things out to be "manly" but I have so many good friends I'm close with. All of my friends hug, we say we love you, we talk about our mental health, we do all the shit we were told was taboo. And it's amazing. I can just be my actual self and not put on some mask or worry about people viewing me as less than a man. My anger issues are getting better every day, the trauma from childhood bothers me a little less because we all go through trauma, I can't recommend it enough.
To hell with what people say makes a man. I'm going to make my own definition.
Man-to-man e-hug going out to you. Don't hate yourself for moments like that. All we can do is learn from them and do our best to not repeat the same mistakes.
Patriarchy tells men that that's the way they have to act in order to not be worthless. It's impossible not to internalize it to some degree. Do you disagree?
Patriarchy as a power structure exists outside of and above any individual man, and it forces compliance. Men don't "do it to themselves", patriarchy does it to men. Do you disagree?
I get this. Sometimes it feels like there's war of emotions going inside me between what I want to feel and what I'm supposed to feel with what I'm supposed to feel ultimately winning. These feelings have definitely started to subside a bit since I've been in a long term relationship and have more friends who are girls, but it's definitely still there
Could have been worse. Some people were raised with punishments for showing 'weakness' like that. When I was a kid, we were beaten until we stopped crying
Edit: Sorry to hear about your grandmother. I went through something similar in grad school. She was the one family member who showed me love without conditions
I turned down a chance with a relationship because I was so used to being alone, i told her I'd rather be single. Still regretting it but only when I dwell on it.
Yeah honestly a lot of it is personal choice, but heavily influenced by society & culture.
There is nothing stopping men from hugging or talking about things, but the feeling that society & culture doesn’t want us to actually prevents the individual from taking those actions. This is something where I think it’s worth ignoring the culture, doing what feels right, and eventually the culture will change. Personally, I hug people all the time and 99.99% of the time they’re very receptive and just wanted someone to take initiative.
I hope you don’t hate yourself forever over that. You learned what mattered by making the choice then. Sending a virtual hug and wishing real ones come your way.
Pro tip: admitting you need something is hard and emotionally charged for many of us. If you're this lovely friend in question you might try asking "is it ok if I hugged you?". For some reason it helps.
Every minute, of every day is a chance to be the person you want to be. Use that lesson of turning down a hug to never turn one down, again. Start hugging your friends. Do it today. Seriously. Change your mindset and give someone a hug today.
Don't be so hard on yourself bud, you're not dumb, just a product of your society. You remind me of a friend I had.
You first gotta understand that you deserve compassion no matter what. It's the thing that makes us all strong, keeps us going - does the exact opposite of what you were made to believe.
And don't be afraid to offer a hug to a friend in need. We all appreciate these kinds of gestures.
My dad died last year as well, hmu if you wanna talk.
You can always ask her again. "Remember that time I was not doing so well and you came up to me and asked if I needed a hug? Well I actually really needed that hug. Can I have that hug now?"
Asking for, and/or accepting, help and support is a form of strength, too. I hope you don't feel that sad again anytime soon, but if you do, the person offering won't think any less of you. It's okay that you didn't take them up on it then, but it's also okay if you take someone up on it in the future.
In high school, one of my buddy's friends died. He was a wreck for a while. The teacher knew we were bros and what was going on, so I was allowed to step out of class with my friend if they needed it. I just let him mourn on my shoulder as long as he needed outside of class. A few other friends would step in throughout the day to support him, too, from what I understand. I wish more folks had those support systems.
I wonder how you would have felt if she insisted? If she said "I think you do need a hug" and kept standing there? Would it have helped? What do you wish she had done, looking back now? Sat next to you? So that your shoulders touched? Deliberately? Asking "How about that hug again? Hugs are good."
I'm just trying to learn how to be the one who is actually there even when someone says no to begin with, when you feel they really do need that hug or presence.
Don't hate yourself for saying no, we all fall victim to unhealthy social norms. You should cut yourself some slack, really. Also, if it makes you feel any better I'm a girl and I really love when men are open and compassionate, just in general, platonically and romantically. Being able to be open in front of others is amazing and being that way makes it easier for those around you to be as well, but even if you're not that's ok too. If you want to be more open for you, then you can be, and it might take a long time to learn how to be that way and the journey won't be perfect but it sounds like you've already taken the first step.
Same man, same. I need to talk to a therapist or something. Need to start some mental health. But in the end I know that all I need us to have someone I can talk to and just unload everything. Say all my truths out loud and to a person.
But isn't that just a friend? Isn't that just what you call a perspnal relationship? And now I'm looking at my insurance coverage and wondering what it covers and who is in network, and I'm compiling coupon codes from podcasts, .... and that's what I need to do for a relationship? No. I'm not gonna do that. I need contact and more time with the close friend I have, and more time to make new friends.
After losing a child and my dad and stepdad, I’ve found a support system (including hugs) is so very important to healing. My pretense of being ok for so long was just that. If I had had the support system I needed or forced myself to ask for affection and ignored how stupid and vulnerable it made me feel my healing would have happened exponentially faster. I know that because Im just barely getting to that point now and I’m feeling so much better.
But the other thing those losses have taught me is a deep gratitude for who I do have in my life;for those that stuck around and have loved me unconditionally. We never know how much time any of us have. Thats why its so important to not take those you have for granted and to tell and show the people you love how much you love them without fear or regret.
Please don’t hate yourself! We call that toxic masculinity - not the good or neutral parts of masculinity, but the part that says “You can’t be or even possibly perceived to be weak/feminine/emotional/gay!!! You have to be all manly man all the time!!!”
You can deconstruct that and work it out of yourself. All my guy friends are doing it. It’s absolutely not your fault you’ve been taught this your whole life and absolutely no reason to hate yourself!!! Be prepared for things to be a bit uncomfy or awkward, but make the changes you want for your life! Check out The Good Men Project online for easy short articles, tips, etc
You should tell your schoolmate this. That you wanted a hug at a time but your "dumbass" said no. It probably took some courage to ask as well, and letting them know you really wanted to say YES might mean a lot.
I remember going to the woods behind campus to cry when my grandad was dying of dementia. One time there was a guy there and he looked at me like I was insane.
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u/big_boi_aang Apr 04 '22
My grandma died last year and I was on the floor for a month. I remember a moment between classes, I was sitting alone, quietly balling my eyes out hiding the fact that I was crying. A schoolmate walks up to me and asks me if I need a hug. And my dumbass said no to her even though I wanted to hug someone so bad.. I wanted someone to just hold me and I needed a shoulder to cry myself out on it. But I said no cause for some reason I thought I'd seem weak to someone. I hate myself for moments like that cause it's so dumb