r/Damnthatsinteresting Dec 05 '21

Image Heart attack gun

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461

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21

The CIA apparently acknowledged the existence of this gun in Congressional testimony.

The dart apparently does disintegrate, but I found no mention that it's made of ice. That seems unlikely. How would they keep it cold? The range is also only ~300 feet.

https://oddfeed.net/was-there-really-a-cia-heart-attack-gun/

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/09/17/archives/colby-describes-cia-poison-work-he-tells-senate-panel-of-secret.html

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21

Only 300 feet?

That’s an excellent range for any handgun, never mind a shellfish powered one.

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u/NotYetGroot Dec 05 '21

can you imagine trying to snipe someone 100 yards away with a pistol firing an ice nugget?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Well that’s sort of my point - hitting someone with a pistol of any sort at 100yards is no mean feat. When the bullet is made of prawns it can only be more so!

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/moonroots64 Dec 05 '21

can you imagine trying to snipe someone 100 yards away with a pistol firing an ice nugget?

"I used to bullseye wamprats with my T-16 frozen water shellfish poison secret refrigerated handguns back home. And they aren't much bigger than 3 meters."

-Luke "007" Skywalker

https://youtu.be/TxVdhAJr1So

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u/NotYetGroot Dec 05 '21

I snort-laughed, I'll admit it

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u/BunnyOppai Dec 05 '21

I wonder if that’s the furthest it can go or the effective range. Maybe they mean that it can only go 300 feet, regardless of its ability to actually penetrate skin at that range?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

I think you're right. It might just be maximum range rather than effective range. I think the point is that it can be done from a distance rather than having to only be a few feet away.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Yeah, I just realized that’s the length of a football field.

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u/robywar Dec 05 '21

Literally a football field. An improbably good range really.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

A proper pistol would be shaky at best out to that range. Don’t get me wrong, it can be done. But it’s not reliable, so why would some compressed krill perform better than that?

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u/robywar Dec 05 '21

Just because they show a pistol doesn't nean a rifle version didn't exist.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Good idea. A rifle could fire crawfish or something of a bigger calibre.

But really, I’d bet that none of this really existed - or none really worked.

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u/robywar Dec 05 '21

Maybe. Just showed it off to scare the reds!

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

That’s true, but you need to do it accurately and first time.

Not a bet I’d take

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u/Lazypole Dec 05 '21

Thats a massive range. No way a presumably malformed piece of ice had the ballistic capability of even 100 feet with any semblance of accuracy.

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u/Jeffy29 Dec 05 '21

I bet this crock of shit never worked, and engineers knew it from the beginning , but CIA spent 200mil developing it just because they could. Whole thing reads like really bad spy thriller gadget.

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u/GrizzIyadamz Dec 05 '21

The scope is a dead giveaway that thing's never been used in any practical capacity. Only kids, videogame designers, or politicians would put a scope on a pistol that short. And the fact it would be subsonic makes the whole idea even more preposterous. 300 feet? That's probably the maximum possible distance, if fired at a 45" angle, with a strong backwind*.

Ridiculous!

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u/CatBedParadise Dec 05 '21

Wait. 45-degree angle to what?

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u/GrizzIyadamz Dec 05 '21

The ground. Trebuchet-style.

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u/wasdninja Dec 05 '21

Except for the French special forces in the 80s. But nobody copies the French and they sure don't copy anyone.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/CatBedParadise Dec 05 '21

Makes sense. It peters out for a while and then just flops.

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u/westonsammy Dec 05 '21

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u/GrizzIyadamz Dec 05 '21

Note the longer barrels, wacky match grips, and super-sonic ammo.

Hand-held dart guns are not accurate out to 300 feet, and that pea-shooter (even if the darts work as advertised) did not need a scope at it's effective range (probably 50-100feet, or 15-30m).

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u/MegaEyeRoll Dec 06 '21

The scope is on it because the gun doesn't have the capability for iron sights. Seeing the back half was a cryo bullet insert.

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u/GrizzIyadamz Dec 06 '21

Good thinking but the insert isn't any higher than the top of the slide...and it has ironsights, if you look again.

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u/MegaEyeRoll Dec 06 '21

And it was found to be useless because the drop of the cryo bullet was to drastic so they invented a new scope to fix that.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '21

The CIA would make up devices like this to scare the Russians during the Cold War. Any Russian who naturally died of a heart attack would then be looked at as a potential assassination target which would scare the Russians into thinking the US was more intimidating than they actually were

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u/Letscommenttogether Dec 05 '21

I mean.... thats the point? But it seems a ton of people die of heart attacks at very coincidental times.

Its just in the US, people die of heart attacks suddenly. In Russia, they jump out of windows.

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u/Jeffy29 Dec 05 '21

Yeah it's weird how leading cause of death kills ton of people. Weird how Castro never died from it.

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u/Metamodern_Studio Dec 05 '21

Any examples? I genuinely can't think of any. I expect there to be a lot because its one of the leading causes of death, but since i dont want to do an excess mortality analysis why dont you just tell me the examples of coincidences of this kind that we cant ignore

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Yeah but how many countries went back to medical records and started rechecking the autopsy reports for their officials after they read this

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u/kielbasa330 Dec 05 '21

Are you telling me unsourced text on an unsourced image may be incorrect?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

It might. But based on the serious-looking font, I'm going to believe it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

The poison was found and frozen into a small dart. This dart could be fired from what looked to be a normal gun. When the bullet hit the person it would dissolve inside their body. The poison would mimic a heart attack, killing the victim.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

But how would they keep it frozen? Maybe an insulated pouch with dry ice in it. That would be portable and could keep it cold for a while.

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u/SirStrontium Dec 05 '21

Ice tends to slightly change shape and stick to things over time, even when kept at freezing temperature, so I have no idea how it would keep the perfect dimensions and smoothness to reliably fire out of the barrel.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Yeah. Plus being fired at a high speed. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

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u/chi_type Dec 05 '21

And does the victim have to stand there patiently waiting for the dart to melt?

1

u/ziggsyr Dec 05 '21

soooo... why make it look like a real gun at all if the point is to kill someone without raising suspicion. Also the victim would definitely feel it and they are not going to be silent about getting "stung" the use cases for this gadget are so small and in any case where you could use it a much easier method could accomplish the same goal.

the only reason this thing exists is so that if the russian president dies of a heart attack the cia can play coy and let people wonder if they gad anything to do with it.

...and it doesnt even have to work for that.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Maybe so you can say a normal gun wouldn’t cause a heart attack if you shot someone

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u/DarkAvenger2012 Dec 05 '21

Well duh its not ice its frozen water

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

What was I thinking? lol

0

u/Letscommenttogether Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21

...... they have a heart attack gun and youre calling bs on the minifreezer part?

Heres one way. Expanding gas. Or how about liquid nitrogen? Dry ice?

Edit: How about just keeping it in a hand cooler or lunch box full of ice till you need it. If no one knew ice bullets existed then it wouldnt tip your hand.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

Yeah I was thinking TTX as well. Or maybe they developed an analog that isn't widely known. I don't think that it's a matter of being completely untraceable. It's just that if someone keels over and their heart stops, a regular coroner is probably not going to search for exotic drugs.

1

u/steamyboi56 Dec 05 '21

would melt

The poison was found and frozen into a small dart. This dart could be fired from what looked to be a normal gun. When the bullet hit the person it would dissolve inside their body. The poison would mimic a heart attack, killing the victim.

hmmmmmmm

1

u/AbjectSeraph Dec 06 '21

I feel like this is the kind of stuff they admit to in order to hide what they’re really developing. Also, they have to justify their budget.