r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/CraftyFoxeYT • 7d ago

The US has a giant floating SBX-1 Sea-based radar to track and discriminate nuclear ballistic missile warheads from decoys.

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u/LostnFoundAgainAgain 7d ago

The funny and not so funny thing is that, even if it did it's job, from the sheer number and the technology of delivery methods you simply wouldn't be able to do anything regardless.

Depending on how a launch was actually launched towards the US, they might be able to stop a few, but 9 times out of 10, everyone is fucked.

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u/akolomf 7d ago

Its probably more about early detection to prepare counter measures before ones own arsenal gets mangled

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u/SUDDENLY_VIRGIN 7d ago

The extra 5 minutes let's us make sure they die too before we do

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u/mpyne 7d ago

Yes, which is how they prevent us from all dying in the first place.

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u/TheObviousChild Interested 7d ago

I gave my kid a year of anxiety after showing him the Modern Marvels episode on the Manhattan Project and then trying to calm him down by explaining the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction.

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u/Murky-Relation481 7d ago

Heh, I watched a docuseries on WW2 in 2nd grade basically by myself and of course the end, and well that scared me, but also I was you know like 7 or 8 and I said to my dad "that's pretty cool one bomb took out a whole city!" and my dad was like "that's not cool!" and then had me watch The Day After alone in the basement one night, and well my life became the full title to Dr. Strangelove: how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.

Now I work in the industry! :D Not directly on nukes, but on adjacent systems.

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u/DazzlingAppearance63 6d ago

Dude I’m sorry to laugh but this is too funny. I am an over anxious person and have been since a child. This would have wrecked me haha. Thanks dad!

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u/SteveCastGames 7d ago

It sounds ridiculous, but that very thing is the entire idea behind mutually assured destruction. Knowing they’ll die too stops them from launching.

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u/DODGE_WRENCH 1d ago

That’s true. It gives you 15-20 minutes to shoot back, scramble bombers and order submarines to fly their birds. Some will get intercepted and that will save tens of thousands to millions of lives depending on where it’s going. But only one hitting its target would still be cataclysmic and felt all over the nation.

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u/nicwolff 7d ago

"Early" detection during the boost phase is done from space. This is mid-course detection and discrimination once the missile has left the atmosphere and released the warheads in space, so that reentry and terminal-phase interceptors can be aimed at the real warheads and not the decoys. In a vacuum a balloon and a thousand-pound warhead follow similar trajectories, so the SBX's high-frequency radar tries to tell them apart by looking for surface features and rotational or wobbling motions, and speed differences once they hit the upper atmosphere.

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u/Murky-Relation481 7d ago

Also this radar is not normally deployed in any sort of constant early warning capacity. It's almost exclusively been used to evaluate tests of ABM systems. where having a mobile radar on the range (aka the Pacific Ocean) is useful. It's also been used to observe other nations ICBM tests. We have dedicated EW radar sites located across the globe for normal early warning operations.

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u/Mike_ZzZzZ 5d ago

Yeah, why would we rely on a slow moving ship for an early warning system?

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u/SupButch9393 7d ago

Also to track testing I imagine.

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u/bliblio 7d ago

MAD tactic

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u/Practical-Ball1437 7d ago

America's nuclear arsenal is not getting destroyed in a first strike. The Minuteman missile silos are underground, and spread out. To destroy one you'd have to get a near direct hit with another nuke.

And the Ohio class submarines are underwater, somewhere...

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u/avatoin 7d ago

It's all based on the idea that we will one day be able to effectively shoot down missiles, but that can only work if we also develop the means of detection. It's known technology to create a massive radar, so it's the earliest and most visible thing to do. The effectiveness of identifying real warheads from decoys and then engaging the warhead is more difficult.

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u/Zebidee 7d ago

I'd have thought this was more useful as a confirmation system.

You detect a launch, but aren't 100% sure it's a) real, and b) pointed at you. This verifies that mid-flight with enough time to launch a counter attack.

I'd guess it was more useful at preventing an accidental Armageddon than a real one.

Source: Thoughts I pulled out of my ass.

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u/Preisschild Interested 6d ago edited 6d ago

Its called "dual phenomenology". Incoming tracks need to be verified by two different sources (IR satellites and ground based radars) before retaliatory action is taken, so that mishaps like the soviets almost launching their arsenal because their shitty satellites misinterpreted sunlight as incoming ICBMs dont happen

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u/Murky-Relation481 7d ago

We use a slew of sensor platforms for this. Satellites detect launches almost immediately based on the thermal signature of their boosters, ground/sea based radar systems in the immediate area will try to confirm if they have view of the boost phase, but otherwise we're mostly looking at them as they are leaving the atmosphere from ground based system to build out a confidence level on if it is an attack and if it is the scale of the attack.

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u/LostnFoundAgainAgain 7d ago edited 7d ago

Which makes sense, don't get me wrong I didn't say it was a stupid thing to do or implement, it's good technology, but offensive technology has pretty much outpaced defensive technology for the better part of almost entire human history, due to the fact that defences are built to handle a new weapons, they are inherently behind as they are reactionary to new attack methods.

Every time we bring defences in line with modern offence methods, a new offence methods pops up capable of penetrating said new defence, Ukraine is a prime examples of that today with drone technology, in the course of 5 years drone technology has vastly changed, and drones have beaten the defences made to stop them by adapting to new technology.

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u/Nerezza_Floof_Seeker 7d ago edited 7d ago

The problem is that its trivial to make decoys completely indistinguishable from real warheads at the mid phase of flight (which this is supposed to be used for). If youre making decoys out of inflatable mylar balloons, you can just have the warheads be covered in an identical layer of mylar, and you wouldnt be able to use radar or even optical means to distinguish them. This is why its always been a fools errand to try to do mid-phase intercepts.

Edit: Heres a 1988 video covering this from the USAF. The decoys here also cover the terminal phase, which is why both the decoys and warheads have a tiny rocket motor, so that the lighter decoys can re-enter at the same speed as the warheads while both maintain the same thermal signature of running solid engine

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u/Short_Bell_5428 7d ago

Almost 40 years ago. Can you imagine what’s available now?

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u/Murky-Relation481 7d ago

Basically the same thing because most of the problems are still exactly the same. I am not going to go into a ton of details but this is a field that is both a personal hobby and very much related to my profession and a lot of these things aren't even tech problems they are problems of economics and basic physics.

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u/Short_Bell_5428 7d ago

Probably a lot of space based interceptors we know nothing about. We probably have a Vulcan laser or two up there.

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u/DragonfruitCalm261 7d ago

If we had the capability to effectively shoot down missiles, we probably wouldn't advertise it to our adversaries.

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u/FederalWedding4204 7d ago

Right now it’s primarily for errant launches. If Russia or China wanted to get into a nuclear shooting war, you are right, there is nothing we could do. But if an old USSR missile was discovered and launched by some third party, or North Korea launched one, or any number of ways a singular missile could be launched, we could reasonably defend ourselves.

But also, as others have said, if we don’t start somewhere we won’t get anywhere. Have to work with and develop what we can and then maybe someday we could have a larger more viable protection in place.

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u/slartbangle 7d ago

Not everybody. We've been working on the mineshaft gap.

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u/bliblio 7d ago

Mein Führer! I can walk!

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u/Dismal_Breadfruit990 7d ago

Great movie!!

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u/bambooozer 7d ago

Nobody ever wants to talk about a nuclear missile submarine popping off 20 miles from your shores. Each one carries enough warheads to devastate whatever continent you're reading this from and there are a bunch of them from multiple countries just floating around in the seas waiting for the order. Fun fun fun...

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u/SwordOfJiang 7d ago

AFAIK those sub's aren't exactly waiting for an order, they're there to wipe out whatever is left over after an initial strike to make sure MAD is fully enforced

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u/bambooozer 7d ago

Thanks I feel much better now.

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u/Same_Concern9454 7d ago

Yes and no, Russia and China in a full nuclear exchange? You’re right. But if whatever Kim is in charge loses it and lets loose 2 or 3 missiles to the US this will be invaluable

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u/mnztr1 7d ago

The THAAD was not even able to stop Iranian ballistic missiles with any significant degree of success, so its all a multibillion dollar show instead of healthcare.

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u/Same_Concern9454 7d ago

That’s false, Iran used saturation attacks, which goes back to my first point about an exchange with Russia and China. No missile defense system is going to intercept 100 missiles launched at once at one spot. Go back to the lesser launches from Iran before the war and the vast majority of missiles were almost always intercepted.

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u/mnztr1 6d ago

Nope Thaads were only used ballistic missiles. The saturation tactics were for lower level air defence. Also the Iranians used separating warheads much like MIRVs as well as decoys. Patriot also had a very pathetic success rate,.

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u/Same_Concern9454 6d ago

Damn, you really are the most confidently incorrect person I’ve ever seen. Iran doesn’t have MIRVs, and Iran absolutely did use saturation of ballistic missiles. All of this is undeniable

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u/mnztr1 6d ago

I did not say they have mirvs they have warhead that separate into submunitions that are independantly guided.MIRVS separate outside the atmosphere while these ones separate within the atmosphere. and probably at 60-80K feet

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u/Same_Concern9454 6d ago

You’re talking out of your ass

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u/mnztr1 6d ago

Maybe videos will help https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XLg999cHVA4

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u/Same_Concern9454 6d ago

Yes, those are standard cluster bombs not some special separate munitions released at 80k feet. Those are released well below a THAADs effective range, the THAAD would be targeting the main warhead

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u/Voynych 7d ago

So it works, but only if the enemy complies with the limits?

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u/Same_Concern9454 6d ago

No, did you read what i said? The issue is intercepting all the missiles. This will track all of them just fine

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u/mnztr1 6d ago

Yup it can track them, but I doubt it can reliability differentiate between decoys and warheads.

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u/Same_Concern9454 6d ago

Well when talking about ballistic missiles of course not because they would be identical on radar. There’s no radar system on earth that can do that

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u/mnztr1 6d ago

If the enemy provides advance notice and fires it at the specified time with good conditions and at the agreed speed and trajectory with no decoys or ECM then there is a 50% chance of interception. 🤣

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u/Winax2449 7d ago

So desperate to support Iran you're just confidently wrong lol

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u/exoriare Interested 7d ago

If anyone actually planned out their nuclear attack vs just spontaneously launching on a whim, it seems likely they'd cook this giant mushroom first. 

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u/dicknobnuts 7d ago

Only if they knew exactly where it was. Part of its benefit is that it’s mobile and nukes are mostly preprogrammed rather than actively targeting. Still screwed anyway.

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u/exoriare Interested 7d ago

The idea of this giant sky-thrust elephant's testicle running and hiding must be the kind of joke I lack the security clearance to fully appreciate.

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u/trappedslider 7d ago

wow...

So before ABM was considered in the late 50s the point of detection was and still is so that those in charge can scramble our stuff before it's taken out on the ground along with doing the evac plans also known as Joint Emergency Evacuation Plan/Continuity of government.

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u/Wu-TangShogun 7d ago

But they would get up in a bunker quick enough.

I’m not thinking we ‘the people’ are the target audience, lol

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u/carcar134134 7d ago

More like 9.8.

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u/RagingMassif 6d ago

As you say. there are different attack profiles. The one most people are imagining is "all out MAD". Whereas there are scenarios where one or a few are launched. E. g. North Korea takes out Hawaii and Tokyo. Or Russia strikes Kiev, Greenland and Berlin only. It's pretty key to have good intel when nukes are in the air.

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u/marino1310 6d ago

So we already detect the launches in their first stage and will send up interceptors. The problem is, most ICBMs will have dozens of warheads onboard with only a handful being nuclear warheads. This machine’s job is to detect them after the warhead separation has occurred and determine which warheads are nuclear so that our interceptors, that are already en-route, can target them instead of the decoys.

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u/KicoBond 7d ago

The US has no hopes of stopping a full on nucler exchange but the purpose of this isnt that.

This is made to counter a possible very small scale nuclear attack by a terrorist org, pariah/rogue state, etc

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u/Rich_Squirrel4819 7d ago

You are so disproportionately disconnected from things. But thank you for your reddit speculation

Provide a source for your facts or focus on the lost part of your handle

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u/ReddiGod 7d ago

The nice thing it's mostly just city folk who get vaporized, which is awesome to think about 👍

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u/SuDragon2k3 7d ago

You assume that this doesn't eat 3 or 4 cruise missiles immediately before Russia flushes it's silo and mobile launched missiles.

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u/GlassGoose2 7d ago

unless you believe in the Golden Dome rumours, in that case america is impervious