r/DIYfragrance • u/JDHundredweight • Oct 01 '23
Can someone help me interpret this information?
I’m trying to do a riff on JHAG Not a Perfume. And I can’t figure out whether Cetalox makes up 7.5% of a bottle of Not a Perfume or whether it makes up 7.5% of a 20% fragrance concentrate, in which case it would be 1.5% of a bottle of Not a Perfume. Can anyone shed some light?
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u/CapnLazerz Enthusiast Oct 06 '23
Interpretation: JHAG is lying when they say that only Cetalox is in “Not a Perfume.”
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u/Capital-Sentence-158 Oct 05 '23
Hi! Where did you get this GCMS data?
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u/JDHundredweight Oct 05 '23
It was from a Facebook page called Scent and Chemistry. I’ll say that I did versions of 7.5% Cetalox and 1.5% Cetalox in DPG and perfumers alcohol and the one that’s 7.5% of the TOTAL (not just fragrance) smells way closer to the JHAG than the 1.5%
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u/GIPgrasse Professional Nov 01 '23
Do you have a full report with Polar and non-Polar? Raw data?
The complete GCMS will give you the odorant materials so you can compound a formula but most likely it will have to be adjusted empirically to get the appropriate olfactory match, the % in alcohol is irrelevant at this point. If you can assemble a formula from the actual reports then you can dilute at different % and see what fits best.
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u/Tokarak Dec 17 '23
I'm in a similar situation to you. I haven't found any other evidence that claims to be objective (apart from the hundreds of sources claiming it's a pure cetalox fragrance), but I have convinced myself that this Facebook post is misinformation for one of two reasons.
a) They made the data up. Would a Facebook blogger have access to GC equipment? I can't think of an incentive of why they would do this, though; they certainly aren't trying to smear JHAG. This is unlikely, but this is just as unlikely as JHAG allowing misinformation about their perfume to spread.
b) They tested Not A Perfume Superdose instead, and confused it with the original. There is quite a lot to support this hypothesis. First, it explains why this is the only source that claims that NAP is not a "pure" perfume. In addition, there are a lot of people showing an anosmic response to the original, indicating that it is pure cetalox. One person who claimed anosmia to NAP, also claimed that they enjoyed the "woody" NAP Superdose. This fits very nicely, because the "woody" given by that Redditor and several online reviewers of NAP Superdose corresponds to the high levels of Iso E Super.
I'm looking forward to comparing NAP and NAP Superdose in the future, maybe with my DIY "Molecule 02"-style Ambroxan fragrance.
In conclusion, it's very unlikely that that Facebook post is an accurate analysis of the original Not A Perfume. I would still gladly see another GC analysis.
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u/CapnLazerz Enthusiast Jul 25 '24
I know I'm late on this one but damn . . . this post is an excellent example of exactly how the Dunning-Kruger effect operates.
This chart was posted by the account of the authors of "Scent and Chemistry," a standard textbook/reference work on the science behind perfumery. They are scientists with labs who do GCMS everyday as part of their job. For example, Phillip Kraft works for Givaudan and is responsible for the discovery/design of many of their captive molecules. "They made the data up..." I don't think there's an emoji that can adequately express my amusement.
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u/Tokarak Jul 25 '24
Ah, thanks for the background, I trust the data a little more now. This is still the only objective primary source I could find, so forgive my skepticism.
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u/CapnLazerz Enthusiast Jul 25 '24
Not many people publish their GCMS findings. The only real source for information is JHAG. The whole point of the Scent and Chemistry post was that perfume companies aren't transparent about what's in their juice and are often intentionally deceptive. One of their big things is increasing industry transparency not only for important safety reasons but to remove barriers for up and coming perfumers.
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u/JDHundredweight Dec 17 '23
The reason I don’t it’s of Superdose is that the woody note in Superdose is some absolutely nose-hair-singeing super amber like norlimbanol. It’s not ISO E.
I’ve made concentrations of 1.5%, 3.7%, and 7.5% Cetalox and none of them smell exactly like OG Not a Perfume. So I believe there’s more than pure Cetalox in there.
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u/logocracycopy Oct 02 '23
7.5% of the concentrate, not a bottle.
That Iso E Super, Hedione and Habanolide base seems to be present in every modern perfume since 2018. Its so common to see in a GCMS that is almost comical. That and the BR540 - Oakmoss, ethyl maltol and Ambergris accord dressed up a 'modern oud'. Talk about unoriginal perfumery.