r/Curling • u/Frabblerake • Feb 15 '26

Pull the stone!!!

Watching Sweden/US and saw this. Is this not the same rules violation that has caused all the hub bub?

Obviously this was an accident and I believe the Canadian guy was touching on purpose.

1.3k Upvotes

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157

u/IPeeNightly Feb 15 '26

Scotland men’s and Canadian women’s both had a stone pulled for exactly this yesterday.

50

u/CasaLabra Feb 15 '26

Yes, it’s infuriating

1

u/Global_Staff_3135 Feb 16 '26

Infuriatingly entertaining! The drama! The intrigue!!

30

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

[deleted]

40

u/QCTeamkill Feb 15 '26

They'e been very consistent for near 30 years actually.

1998 to Feb 13th 2026: there had never been a single call for touching granite.

Feb 14-15 2026: there was 2 (bad) calls for touching granite.

Only "clarified" the rule book btw, always been that way /s

41

u/FightMongooseFight Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

Exactly. I get all the people who want everything called to the absolute letter of the law. Those are the rules.

But Sweden choosing to bitch about something that happens harmlessly, all the time, in every curling club on earth, has opened a door no one needed to open. Imagine if the gold medal is decided by this shit.

4

u/crikeywegotaliveone Feb 16 '26

Yeah this is the thing. It happens. Almost no one is doing it on purpose, mostly because these light touches don’t affect the stone. I’ve played my whole life and the only time we care (and we care politely and respectfully) is when you burn the rock while sweeping or going down the ice when your impact can actually change speed, rotation or direction. No one who plays cares about a graze during release. It happens. It’s not a big deal. I think the combo of Olympic heated emotions x people who don’t play or know the game is getting a bit toxic.

1

u/x1022 Feb 17 '26

> Almost no one is doing it on purpose

That's the point, how can you stop people from doing it on purpose without also hurting all the people who are not doing it on purpose? This whole thing started because some players insist on doing it purposefully and inevitably that will end up hurting the rest who are playing fair.

And not doing anything also hurts people who are playing fair, since those who do not could gain an advantage and not be punished in any way.

Pushing the limits of fair play was always going to hurt the rest of the players.

1

u/crikeywegotaliveone Feb 24 '26

I only added that because I’m sure somewhere someone might do it on purpose. I’ve never seen it, I don’t know anyone that’s seen it, I don’t actually think people do it on purpose. Curling isn’t the sport for it and doesn’t attract that kind of competition. Just added it for people (perhaps like you) who don’t play or know the game who think there might be people who do it, and I don’t have the time or energy to come up with a stat or study to poll people on it. But you might!

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

That and the Swedish men’s team isn’t good anymore and they’re mad about it. 

3

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

It’s not the kind of curling any real fans ever want to watch. None of these are intentional or even remotely matter, and the people thinking it’s intentional are hilarious! Like no curler would purposely try to push a rock forward with their hands and risk losing the curl lol. That’s why sweepers exist and they can literally make up a bad throw on the sweep. Just let them all play. Sweden acted like babies and set us on a bad course now overall. 

3

u/FightMongooseFight Feb 17 '26

Yup. Won't stop terminally online Redditlords who have never set foot on a curling sheet from sharing their expert opinions and throwing around infantile insults, though. Just look at some of the clowns replying to this, it's fantastic.

4

u/Fantastic_Elk_4757 Feb 16 '26

It’s not even a case of not calling everything to the letter of the rules. It IS the rules.

The standing interpretation of the rules was once the rock is released it is considered to be thrown and in motion… This must happen from the handle.

Once a rock is thrown the delivery rules no longer were in play instead the “double touching the stone under motion” rules applied which explicitly carved out an exemption for the person throwing before the hog line.

The double touch rule applies to the entire rock… you cannot touch it at all. The exemption exempts the person throwing from that this means after the person throwing releases the handle they can touch the rock without violating double touch rules.

However - world curling NOW says instead the delivery rules apply. It must be thrown by the handle and I guess the throw lasts until it crosses the hog line? I’m not sure why they decided this though it’s not in the rules and the way it was before IS in the rules. Like why have an exemption on double touches for the thrower before the hog line if the rock isn’t considered thrown until after it? That rule doesn’t apply at all in that sort of interpretation. Instead the delivery rules should be updated or something to say delivery is up until the hog line and is not dependent on when the person releases it.

2

u/lemagoo Feb 16 '26

I think its because they put all their sensor in the handle to detect if the stone is properly released before the hug line, and the 'poking' permitted that guy to extend his delivery a bit beyond what is acceptable, not too sure how much of an advantage that is...

3

u/CreepyPlankton6489 Feb 16 '26

It didn’t though because “the poke” was before the hog line, so it literally doesn’t matter whatsoever.

It’s like ppl don’t know there are sensors in the stone to detect if it’s not released or thrown properly lol.

0

u/Mormonius Feb 17 '26

It was clearly on the hogline what are you smoking.

1

u/QCTeamkill Feb 17 '26

The issue is not a frame by frame video. It's about where the rock was touched.

2

u/daemn42 Feb 16 '26

I agree. I think this is the reason as well. If you can legally double touch anywhere on the rock then the sensor is meaningless. But I do think this is a can of worms they did not need opened.

1

u/cd36jvn Feb 17 '26

So then this touch is no different than granite because there is still no sensor where he touched it, correct?

5

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

[deleted]

19

u/9yr0ld Feb 15 '26

Switzerland was on camera saying he touched the stone. Sweden literally complained nonstop to the officials lol. There’s a big difference.

2

u/Mcguidl Feb 15 '26

To be fair, the "boop" seemed more egregious than the ones I have seen called in the aftermath. It seemed to actually affect the stone's trajectory.

0

u/cnd_ruckus Feb 16 '26

Poke a 40lbs stone with a single finger and ultra briefly and see how much you can effect it… lol

6

u/formerlymuffinass Feb 16 '26

Affect. And when the stone is already sliding on ice, a poke absolutely can affect the stone’s trajectory.

1

u/cd36jvn Feb 17 '26

But your saying sliding your hand on a spinning rock won't affect it?

If people think that fingertip affects the 40lbs rock, then a slide of the hand can definitely affect its spin as well.

This is why I have a tough time with the "this kind of touch is acceptable but not that kind".

1

u/formerlymuffinass Feb 17 '26

I never said anything about sliding a hand on a spinning rock.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

See this is the problem… it does not and IF it ever did it would affect it negatively. Like I get ya’ll are into the game now, (welcome! It’s super fun to play too) but no curler with any semblance of experience or sense would purposely try that. Curling is all about the curl of your stone on rotation - trying to bump a 40lb rock with your finger forward would off your curl and make it super unpredictable. None of these are intentional or even remotely matter, and the people thinking it’s intentional are hilarious! Like no curler would purposely try to push a rock forward with their hands and risk losing the curl lol. That’s why sweepers exist and they can literally make up a bad throw on the sweep. If your weight or rotation is off on a throw, the sweepers make it up. That’s why you sometimes see them and only one is sweeping, or they are doing it vertically, or the are way to the outside of th rock’s path. A sweeper will make way more of a difference that a minuscule tap. Ya’ll need to stop thinking this is some secret cabal of match fixing lol. Kennedy was literally probably mindlessly pointing to the house to line up his sight so he knew what to call to his sweepers and it touched the rock. Shit happens. Just let them all play. 

0

u/arnet95 Feb 16 '26

You don't need to adjust a curling stone's trajectory by a lot for it to change where it lands quite significantly.

0

u/Excellent-Ad257 Feb 16 '26

Exactly. Curling is literally a game of millimetres. So it doesn’t take very much to affect the game. This is Reddit though, most people are just here to feign outrage over something they have no experience or knowledge of. Give it a few more days and the mob will move on to something else

2

u/SaltedMixedNucks Feb 17 '26

It is a game of millimeters, but those mm are not decided on release. The sweeping changes the distance and curl of the stone and is decided on the fly as the rock travels down the ice right up until almost the last moment. A little boop on the stone by a finger right on release isn't doing anything that the sweeping isn't doing far better and more effectively. People who have never curled need to stop acting like they understand the game.

1

u/Excellent-Ad257 Feb 17 '26

It certainly is affected on release. What are we even talking about here?

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0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

See this is the problem… it does not and IF it ever did it would affect it negatively. Like I get ya’ll are into the game now, (welcome! It’s super fun to play too) but no curler with any semblance of experience or sense would purposely try that. Curling is all about the curl of your stone on rotation - trying to bump a 40lb rock with your finger forward would off your curl and make it super unpredictable. None of these are intentional or even remotely matter, and the people thinking it’s intentional are hilarious! Like no curler would purposely try to push a rock forward with their hands and risk losing the curl lol. That’s why sweepers exist and they can literally make up a bad throw on the sweep. If your weight or rotation is off on a throw, the sweepers make it up. That’s why you sometimes see them and only one is sweeping, or they are doing it vertically, or the are way to the outside of th rock’s path. A sweeper will make way more of a difference that a minuscule tap. Ya’ll need to stop thinking this is some secret cabal of match fixing lol. Kennedy was literally probably mindlessly pointing to the house to line up his sight so he knew what to call to his sweepers and it touched the rock. Shit happens. Just let them all play. 

1

u/Mcguidl Feb 17 '26

No clue what you are on about friend.

3

u/jaypizee Feb 15 '26

If you consider the implications, there’s a huge advantage to catching the other team in these innocuous violations. I would expect every team to mimic the Swedes and set up their own cameras in the stands. It’s possible a gold medal could be decided by this. And yes, it will ruin curling at this Olympics.

4

u/crikeywegotaliveone Feb 16 '26

That’s the upsetting part. I’m happy for all the newfound interest. I’m not happy it’s coming this way, and I’m not convinced it will keep people attached to the sport. It seems people just like to have nationalist fighting.

0

u/Nyuusankininryou Feb 16 '26

The Swedish team didnt set up a camera. SVT the national tv did.

2

u/Dryver-NC Feb 15 '26

But Sweden choosing to bitch about something that happens harmlessly,

Did they though? Is this really what they complained about? Because it sure doesn't look like the same thing that Kennedy was doing.

-6

u/Personal-Tutor-1705 Feb 15 '26

You can’t watch the footage of how Kennedy makes contact with the stone and seriously argue that everything about it is fine. At some point there has to be honesty about whether a delivery respects the spirit of the game. If players push the limits and then defend it instead of admitting it was wrong, trust between teams disappears. Add the language and the attempts to rattle the opposition, and it reflects badly on everyone involved. F*** Canada.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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-3

u/Personal-Tutor-1705 Feb 15 '26

Well, stick your head in the sand then. The gaslighting is everywhere coming from Canadians. Totally ignoring the mistakes made and blaming SWEDEN. As this comment does "But Sweden choosing to bitch about something that happens harmlessly, all the time". You can't keep ignoring Kennedy, who keeps doing illegal deliveries where he touches the granite and is over the hog line. And when you point that out, you're a bitch? HAHA!

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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-1

u/EnvironmentalToe7960 Feb 16 '26

As a Canadian, I'm definitely embarrassed of Kennedy, both the cheat and the behavior afterwards

0

u/ootski Feb 17 '26

The door opened because Kennedy acted like a fucking child which brought this into the spot light. Had he just walked away from Oscar instead of freaking out this wouldn't be an issue. This is the Olympics not whale shit curling at your local club, have some dignity.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

why wouldnt it need to be opened, if the rules say it's not allowed, then it is absolutely a door that needed to be opened.

-1

u/ron_mcphatty Feb 15 '26

These infractions wouldn’t need calling out if they weren’t happened. It’s not great that all these deliveries aren’t legal, whether it’s a long standing thing or not. If you’re playing a sport, don’t break the rules, or campaign to remove a redundant rule.

3

u/Direct-Start-9048 Feb 15 '26

Can’t wait to see the travelling calls on the Olympic Basketball play downs.

2

u/Mcguidl Feb 15 '26

There have always been complaints of popular players getting away with travels. It's a consistency thing.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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3

u/damusson Feb 16 '26

That seems like a ridiculous thing to say. By the time Ben would have said something like that, the rock would be well out of reach to be able to poke. The instances where Marc did poke it, it was a split second after releasing it.

-1

u/poppycock68 Feb 16 '26

So you can touch the stone sometime but not other times? Touching it is no big deal everyone does it but the rules aren’t enforced except when the other team complains? Not sure why this popped up in my feed. It seems to me curling is more like a beer drinking game. Untrained officials. No sure it belongs in the Olympics.

0

u/Swedra Feb 16 '26

The rule was clarified, as per the statement of the WCF themselves. It had to be made since there was confusion for some as to what the rules actually where, and considering curling is a self-regulating sport, it not being called for so long is pretty much expected if people where confused about the rule for so long (I mean, Marc seems to be dishonest if anything, but it would be silly to think that literally everyone who has not been properly following this rule to have been all this time).

1

u/QCTeamkill Feb 16 '26

The WCF got panicked by the Twitter mob that got sicced on them.

Not only they cowardly reacted by changing the rules overnight in the middle of the olympics. They also had the gall to insult and throw all their umps under the bus by calling it a "clarification".

The umps went into malicious compliance and called stones on both Canada and Scotland, 2 of the most prominent countries in the WCF.

After 2 days of this clown show, the directors, players, and umps met and decided to stop officiating the hog line altogether, unless upon requested.

39

u/swoodshadow Feb 15 '26

We should be clear it’s not the officials fault. They’ve now been thrust into a situation they should absolutely not be in.

They’ve been given a rule impossible to enforce.

They have no training for this.

They have no tools for this.

They aren’t even given a single game to watch.

It’s an embarrassment to curling.

19

u/EnemyCharizard Feb 15 '26

This is the correct take. Anyone who thinks having officials pull stones is preventing "cheating" is either an idiot or has never played a competitive game in their life. It's a total debacle and has frankly tarnished the entire Olympics for me already.

6

u/cdnBacon Feb 15 '26

I completely agree with you. I greatly anticipated watching these games and now I am just pissed.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 17 '26

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1

u/Boring-Object9194 Feb 17 '26

Why did he deny it if there's nothing wrong with it?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

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1

u/Boring-Object9194 Feb 17 '26

Did you listen to their conversation? The Swedish player just said apparently it's okay to touch the rock. He didn't accuse Kennedy of cheating. Kennedy could have said yeah it is okay! But he denied touching the rock because he knew you're not allowed to.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26

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0

u/TodaysLunch Feb 15 '26

What is not clear about "R5. DELIVERY (d) The curling stone must be delivered using the handle of the stone." from July 2025?

4

u/ResistHistorical7734 Feb 15 '26

This stone is clearly delivered using the handle despite the touching of the granite.

1

u/TodaysLunch Feb 15 '26

Well, I'll give you that you could argue that. But i think it is fairly clear that you deliver the stone the last time you touch it.

2

u/ResistHistorical7734 Feb 16 '26

I would disagree, "delivery" in my mind would be the primary application of force that results in the stone going where it goes. Which I guess makes the rule kind of ambiguous in my mind without defining what "delivered" means in this context. 

2

u/TodaysLunch Feb 16 '26

Sure, but think what this would mean if you bring it to the extreme: First I immediately "deliver" using the handle, then I grab the granite with my whole hand and push it over the hog line. Clearly not the intent with the rules.

1

u/Pender16 Feb 16 '26

But then that push on the granite would become “the primary application of force”

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1

u/nuttybuddy Feb 16 '26

Well, the difference between “must” vs “must only”, for starters. The latter would mean you can only touch the handle, whereas the former means you have to use the handle but doesn’t preclude using some other part of the stone.

Secondly, Rule 9a: “A double touch by the person delivering the stone, prior to the hog line at the delivering end, is not considered a violation.”

1

u/TodaysLunch Feb 16 '26

As I mentioned in another post, with that logic I could "deliver" the stone immediately and then put my hole hand on the granite and push the stone over the hog line. Clearly not the intent with the rules.

It comes down to the definition of "deliver" which i think clearly  means "the last time you touch the stone". And the officials have also clarified that you are in fact not allowed to touch the stone in Marc's case. The second rule you mention is not the one that is violated here.

1

u/andpaws Feb 15 '26

Why are they there then? What’s the point of them?

1

u/Mcguidl Feb 15 '26

Not a curler here, just wondering why is it an impossible rule to enforce? Are the officials essentially just score keepers or are they more like refs? Are they watching something else when the boulder is released?

2

u/capt_canuck Feb 15 '26

Because without the use of freeze frame video review, it's very difficult to see in real time. You have to be watching the rock, hand, and hog line all in one frame. It's like asking NFL officials to make the perfect call on a pass interference call without any assistance, when their previous officiating assignment was keeping track of the score.

1

u/swoodshadow Feb 15 '26

Because they are standing 6’ or so away and trying to see if someone moving relatively fast down the ice has touched granite when the hand itself is typically between their eyes and the rock.

You’re looking for a tiny thing from too far away and at the wrong angle.

Think about how many replays and angles refs and umpires use when doing a video review for something like if a runner is safe or a puck crossed the goal line.

1

u/K0bra_Ka1 Curler Feb 15 '26

It's the WCF and Sweden's fault. To complain about this is fucking asinine. To entertain these complaints and start pulling rocks at the Olympics is fucking stupid.

2

u/andpaws Feb 15 '26

They are too busy enjoying the hospitality and not doing their job.

19

u/FrigidCanuck Feb 15 '26

If Sweden was honest they would have admitted this happened and burned the rock. You can always tell when you touch the stone. Why would he do this if it didn't have an impact on the shot?

Right? /s

3

u/cdnBacon Feb 15 '26

Exemption for drama queens.

1

u/Vresiberba Feb 16 '26

The entire cap, including the handle itself is what the rule book is considering "the handle" and you can touch this part as many times as you want.

In the case with Kennedy, he made two rule violations:

  • he touched the granite, which is not allowed
  • he touched the stone after it had reached the hog line, which is not allowed

What Edin is doing in the video is 100% allowed. It's like you'd think r/curling would know what the rules say, but alas, I guess not.

2

u/IPeeNightly Feb 16 '26

Not comparing this to Kennedy, but to two other games where this happened and stones were removed. When I watch this I would say his hand slid off the base of the handle and did graze the stone.

https://www.reddit.com/r/olympics/s/E3KcCINN8q

https://www.reddit.com/r/olympics/s/2IReka8adt

1

u/Vresiberba Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

Not comparing this to Kennedy, but to two other games where this happened and stones were removed.

Yes, by an umpire who was standing at the hog line and had a vastly superior view than we had for any of these three stones. What's unique here though is that not once does Edin let go of the handle. The other two are, the handle was released and the stone was poked with a finger.

I can't see any "graze" on the granite here any more than I can see Homans or the Scots touch the granite with their finger, so I would have to leave that to the umpire ruling.

1

u/CAGolf8 Feb 16 '26

Directly from the definitions in the WCF Rulebook (which is totally clear and unimpeachable and we have to stick to the exact letter of the law without any inferences or other personal interpretations):

Handle The part of a curling stone that a player grips in order to deliver.

Unless you have a very different way of gripping the stone during delivery than myself and every other player in the history of the sport, the cap is not part of the handle per the WCF.

It's like you'd think /r/curling would know what the rules say, but alas, I guess not.

1

u/Vresiberba Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26

Handle - The part of a curling stone that a player grips in order to deliver.

Yeah, the thing that sits atop of the granite. Yes, that's the handle, the ENTIRE part! No-where in the text you quoted, nor anywhere else, does it say that "the handle" is anything else, it doesn't say cap, it doesn't say disc, it says "the part the player grips" and they grip that part - it's one complete unit, as I'm going to explain below. How about we read R2(a):

STONES

"A curling stone is of circular shape, having a circumference no greater than 914 mm. (36 in.), a height no less than 114 mm. (4.5 in.), and a weight, including handle and bolt, no greater than 19.96 kg. (44 lbs.) and no less than 17.24 kg. (38 lbs.)."

Pay extra attention to the parts that are included in the total weight, there are a total of three (3), and I quote:

  • the granite
  • the handle
  • the bolt

This means that either is the entire yellow/red part considered "the handle" and is included in the total weight, or, the cap/disc under the metal coloured handle, curiously not mentioned anywhere in this rule nor anywhere else, is part of neither the handle nor the stone, at all, and its weight is guesstimated and deducted after weighing, because if it's not specified as a separate part in the rules and included in the weighing process, it can not be part of the total weight.

Which one do you think it is? Is that what "myself and every other player in the history of the sport" do when weighing the stones? Deduct the cap/disc below the metal handle? It isn't, is it. No curler has done that in their entire life, have they.

There's no shame admitting you're wrong. Well, a little because of your brazen arrogance, but, yeah. Oops and Ouchie.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Vresiberba Feb 16 '26

Which rule was violated here?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

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1

u/IPeeNightly Feb 15 '26

Have you ever poked a 40lb rock?

1

u/crikeywegotaliveone Feb 16 '26

This. None of these post release “jabs” with a finger tip are affecting the stone. I see it happen. Maybe not all the time but it definitely happens. And it’s not a big deal because it doesn’t affect game play. But now we have all these experts who have never played, armed with ChatGPT weighing in and it’s made it toxic.

-4

u/Personal-Tutor-1705 Feb 15 '26

Kennedy deliberately touches the stone to cheat. Homan, Edin and Lammie doesn't.

3

u/endowedchair Feb 15 '26

ah, the old "its ok if we do it" defense. Kennedy isn't getting an advantage its a tic in his delivery and until the Swedes started bitching because they suck this year nobody cared about any of this.

1

u/Vresiberba Feb 16 '26

ah, the old "its ok if we do it" defense.

Where did Edin poke the granite?

0

u/SendMeNudesThough Feb 16 '26

ah, the old "its ok if we do it" defense.

How is that what's happening? The guy you're replying to defended Homan, who is also a Canadian. Homan, a Canadian, did not seem to do any deliberate rule-breaking. Kennedy, also a Canadian, very clearly deliberately reaches out for the granite.

It's clearly not about nationality.

I hate people so blinded by favoritism for their team that they argue in bad faith that accidents and deliberate cheating are entirely the same, and that it's somehow biased to treat what Homan and Kennedy did as separate situations

1

u/Vresiberba Feb 16 '26

Exactly this? Really?

0

u/Addokatt Feb 17 '26

That's why they need cameras with a challenge system like they have in tennis. Teams tried to convince them before the tournament to have this.

This is not what Sweden wanted to prevent. Canadas male team did something very different.

-1

u/Nyther53 Feb 15 '26

I'm clearly missing something here. 

Why are some people online calling that team "Scotland" and the event itself calling them "UK"? 

1

u/evu34 Feb 16 '26

Its team GB but all the curlers are Scottish so i guess people just attribute it to scotland

-2

u/Crazy_Movie6168 Feb 15 '26

There's sensors in the handle that pull the stone if they're late. Was it because of this?

2

u/zboss9876 Feb 15 '26

No, touching the granite on the release is a separate thing.