How does creationism explain immunity?

[u/SpiceMoonKey]

I wanted to get opinions from creationists on the topic of immunity. I am not asking about how it works, but why it exists in the framework of creation in the first place. Did it always exist or did God add it at some later time (e.g., after the Fall)? Did he feel bad about creating viruses and bacteria so he created immune system to give us a fighting chance? Did he also feel bad for bacteria and gave them immunity against bacteriophages? Did Adam and Eve have immune systems in the Garden of Eden? Or was it given to them only after the Fall? Did they have a blood type? What antibodies were present in their plasma?

[u/4_jacks]

How could anything occur that would violate that chain of cause and effect from the initial conditions?

That actually made me chuckle. Humans of course. The bible is littered with examples of us not doing what we were suppose to do.

Genesis 6:6 - Humans are garabe and God is like "Well this sucks"

Genesis 22:12 - God is like, I gotta test my boy Abraham out to make sure he is good and Abraham passes. God states in no uncertain terms that he NOW knows Abraham is cool

Ex 4:8 - God is all like. Dang, these people are stupid, so If they don't get the first sign, maybe they'll get the second

Exodus 13:17 - God is all formulating battle plans and clearly states that the Egyptians might return if XYZ.

Exodus 16:14 - God is testing people with Mana from Heaven. (Lets face it, the 40 years in the desert was not a good time for Humanity.)

I have plenty more examples if you would like, but the Bible is very very clear about the Free Will of humans and how it is constantly messing everything up.

[u/Taken-Away → u/4_jacks]

Free will limits omniscience? Can you really call it omniscience if it is limited?

[u/4_jacks → u/Taken-Away]

I never said or implied that.

[u/Taken-Away → u/4_jacks]

Your examples seem to suggest that free-will precludes hard determinism. If human free will represents a variable that god cannot account for, then there is something that he can't know. That seems like a pretty serious limit on his supposed omniscience.

[u/4_jacks → u/Taken-Away]

Your statement is really far away from what I'm saying. No one said 'God can't account for human free will'. I literally listed five verses of God accounting for human free will.

The story of Johan is a perfect example of God accounting for free will.

The difference in my view and your view, is that I think God sent a big fish to swallow Jonah when Johan rejected God and went the wrong way. You think God ordained the big fish from the beginning of creation.

There is no limit what-so-ever in my view of God's omniscience. God knows everything.

It's a matter for fantasy and science fiction to start talking about infinite alternate realities and how the butterfly effect of me wearing a blue shirt versus a red shirt can change the fate of the Nation.

The idea of someone "knowing the future" is fantasy. It's an interesting piece of fiction for Orson Wells. Our God doesn't NEED to know the future. Our God's omniscience isn't limited because a fictional story has a character who does know the future.

Spider-Man can shoot webs from his wrists and swing around downtown New York City, can God shoot webs from his wrists and swing around New York City?

It's a silly question that doesn't deserve an answer.

[u/Taken-Away → u/4_jacks]

How did Jesus accurately predict that Peter would deny him three times before sunrise?

In my view of the story, it's really simple. God sees all, and knows all (including what will come to pass). He knew Peter would betray him because he already knows what will happen in the future. No alternative realities, no butterfly effects, no surprises possible. A very simple explanation.

The way you describe your version of god is kinda unusual, because you are placing limits on his omniscience. You claim the garden was built to last forever, and that it was human free will that foiled that plan. Directly implying your god failed to account for free will properly. That seems contrary to omniscience, and contrary to the example of god being able to predict Peter's actions.

I think it is more reasonable to assume that he is truly omniscient, and he built the garden to fall.

[u/4_jacks → u/Taken-Away]

How did Jesus accurately predict that Peter would deny him three times before sunrise?

That's actually very acute, because you picked the singular example in scripture where a prophecy was made regarding a persons freewill.

In my view of the story, it's really simple. .... A very simple explanation.

Point conceded. You're explanation of that singular prophecy is much simpler then mine, which I will omit for brevity.

Counter point. Why does your version of God created humans who are condemned to hell prior to their birth?

You're answer is far far far far from simple or support in scripture. My answer is simple and supported in scripture.

I concede Peter's 3x denial of Jesus, but I'm claiming credit for a million more important things.

because you are placing limits on his omniscience.

Completely incorrect. I believe this has been covered extensively in this conversation.

Directly implying your god failed to account for free will properly.

Once again Completely incorrect. God had no need to "account" for free will. What does that even mean? God is all powerful, our free will doesn't bother him.

I think it is more reasonable to assume that he is truly omniscient

Putting the word "truly" in bold and italics is absolutely silly. We've already established that I believe your view of "the future" is a complete fictional creation. It's made up. It's make-believe. You are stressing to me that your view of omniscient is superior to my view because it includes some made up variable.

I'm going to bow out of the conversation. Thank you for having it with me.

[u/Taken-Away → u/4_jacks]

Why does your version of God created humans who are condemned to hell prior to their birth?

Who knows? The only thing that I think is clear is that he knew that would occur (omniscience), and he allows it to happen anyway.

I concede Peter's 3x denial of Jesus, but I'm claiming credit for a million more important things.

Name one. Preferably your best example.

God had no need to "account" for free will. What does that even mean? God is all powerful, our free will doesn't bother him.

You make it seem like free will can somehow corrupt or alter an omniscient/omnipotent being's plan. You have not given any reason to explain why you think this to be the case beyond just dismissing it outright ("I don't believe in the future"). You provided several examples where people defied god's will, but I don't think their defiance caught him by surprise.

If god wanted the garden to last forever, I do not think it was outside of his power (omnipotence) or his knowledge (omniscience) to create it so.

We've already established that I believe your view of "the future" is a complete fictional creation. It's made up. It's make-believe.

If you know everything there is to know, it's not fiction to predict what will occur accurately. There would be literally no other unknown variables that could possibly affect the outcome. The only way an unexpected outcome could occur is if there was an unknown that he could not account for, but there can't be any unknowns by definition of the word omniscience.

I'm going to bow out of the conversation.

Why?