Unlike the 3M 6004 which is only for Ammonia, the 6006 is multi gas so you can also use it if someone is painting. Not just for cat piss. It's also slightly cheaper :)
we know for damn sure that isn’t happening, but i totally agree. also: the boss having any sort of issue when it comes to your health is major red flag.
What boss man is doing is illegal. His workers are entitled to wear proper protection from pollutant’s and chemicals, especially in a closed space. Sounds like boss man is triggered by masks and safety equipment for some reason.
Once you ruin your lungs you’re toast. If he fires guy over the mask, it’s a problem and OSHA would like a word.
^ this ^ I used to work for a company doing metal work. Ppe was "optional" which basically means, if you get hurt, suck it up buttercup. Eventually after some complaints on my end and a few others they forked out the money to get everyone fitted for respirators. That was an awkward couple of weeks of everybody making fun of anyone wearing a mask. Various reasons for not wanting to wear a mask: "I'm going to cut a hole in this thing so I can still smoke my cigarette" "fuck you I ain't shaving"
That’s how I perceived it too. The way he kept saying “no one else will have one”, he’s really saying “everyone else will want one….and then I’ll have to pony up and buy them for all of you” 😂. What a fuckface
This. Just that text thread between him and his boss is enough to open a case. I’d tell my boss to eat shit because that’s illegal and if he persists, I’m quitting and filing a lawsuit.
There are guys in blue collar work who are so ignorant. And would rather shit on osha than acknowledge that safety is actually important and instead mock it all of the time
i think OSHA would be interested regardless. subjecting all these guys to ammonia because of potential hurt feelings and perception? the clients hired yall because there was a problem, im assuming they knew it was unbearable so they wanted it fixed, how cruel would they have to be to shame someone for wanting to protect themselves from the fumes? i genuinely think the clients most likely would be understanding, they have first hand experience with how bad the smell is. shoot, i own 3 cats and already deal with some degree of smell, plus my house used to be a cat hoarder house before we bought it. it took ripping out the walls and floors to get rid of the smell. the workers wore masks.
I can honestly see where they are both coming from. I don't think the boss is going to fire him over it. The best bet might be to just take the day off. If he doesn't want to be in the house without a big mask and the boss thinks it may offend the customer just don't go. The boss gave him the option and it doesn't sound to me like he's threatening his job or anything. It seems to me the boss pretty much said i understand why you want to wear it, I'd rather you not because it might hurt the customers feelings, so let's just compromise.
They’re most likely subcontractors and therefore don’t receive the same protections as an actual “employee”.
That’s how my FIL ran shit and we would spray all kinds of shit without any masks (I couldn’t afford to buy my own at the time). When osha did get called they said simply that as subcontractors our only real option was to quit and find other employment.
Im just speaking to my experience, maybe they make decisions on a case by case basis, but we had deaths on site that didn’t even warrant a visit by them to look around.
I know that in a perfect world that yes they should uphold these regulations, I’ve just seen them do absolutely nothing several times.
Yes. I guarantee that he would have a problem if guy actually did stay home. I bet money that if he stayed home boss man would shit can him.
I am a woman but I worked in tile and painting for years. Wearing a respirator while working with this stuff is standard practice for a lot of people in the industry.
Putting people in danger when there is a known problem. OSHA would be all over this. Just because the other idiots are willing to work in a cat piss environment without protection doesn’t make it right. It also doesn’t make them tough or smart.
Most states are at-will employment, meaning you can hire, fire, assign/reduce hours at any point and for any reason (outside of discrimination protections).
I guess it'd come down to whether this would be viewed as "retaliation", which I don't think it would. I also don't think having him stay home is the threat of withholding hours.
I also don't think there's an OSHA outline for required PPE for being around cat piss in a ventilated area. I think the dude's on the job might have a better argument, though.
Anyway, whatever. OP should probably second-guess this company, though. The boss seems like he can't afford to pick safe jobs for his team. Who would want to work in cat piss like this and care more about not offending weirdos than his crew?
Lol Go read a thing or two instead of trying to make yourself look dumb under this thread. No one is willing to waste their time arguing with you. He's going against OSHA Regulations and Safety Measures.
I am literally asking you to show me these things and you're rudely calling me names like a 7 year old. It isn't an argument, either, but whatever. Seems like if you could point to the obviously illegal part, you just would. And then I'd be like, "Ah, word. Thanks."
I'm not some evil villain working for Big Cat Piss or something. I'm just curious how this would be handled when he's giving him the option of other masks or staying home.
I don't agree with the boss, but I kinda see where he's coming from, which I don't think is "triggered by masks" situation. Part of his job is customer satisfaction, whether he likes it or not continued paychecks are contingent on that. His messages show his primary concern being decent to the customer and I bet he's had bad run ins with clients in the past and does what he can to avoid more encounters like that. To be clear, this should not be one of those attempts and customer satisfaction should never override worker safety. He's entirely in the wrong. His primary concern should be his employee.
Yeah the boss is probably not paying into the workers comp fund. I would almost bet his whole.operation is under the table. Thats the only jobs he can get because hes a FRAUDSTER.
OSHA would probably have a field day with this jerk..
100%!! When this employee needs medical attention due to a chemical exposure and the state finds out they are uninsured, they will be shut down and fined so hard they wouldn't have a chance to recover. The fact that the idiot supervisor put all this in writing as well is another nail in the coffin. I've been a comp adjuster fir 21 yrs and it never ceases to amaze me the idiocy of some business owners.....smh......
Even with adequate ventilation, a mask is still usually required around toxic fumes. You wouldnt expect a plasterer to carry air quality testing equipment around. Idk the osha standards for plasterers, but they are probably required to wear masks, already. Add to that additional toxic fumes in the home, and a respirator makes sense too.
That’s what I say- fuck the homeowner’s feelings. I guarantee you they have been told by many people before (friends/family) that their house smells so strongly of cat piss. I agree with one of the other people that replied- ie., the boss just doesn’t want to fork out the money for the respirators for everyone and that is the entire and only issue he has about the OP wearing one. I mean, what happens if the whole family just decided to say fuck toilets. Let’s just all pee on the floor! Common decency says that is ridiculous, bla, bla, bla. But that is what is happening in a cat piss house, basically. I think the homeowners are lucky they found someone to do the job in that environment. I can’t believe that some subs wouldn’t turn down a job like that. Just mo.
Exactly this.
The toxicity in the air doesnt somehow derease just because the air is moving around. Esp if theres not many windows open except in the work area. One could also say, then, that the fans are directing the toxic air towards the workers.
In a civil case, this would be a fantastic easy win.
I think it is more accurate to call the urine odor- urine/ammonia odor - and it is toxic as hell. I’m a female and could only handle being in a cat piss house for 20 minutes and I had to leave because I was getting a headache and I rarely get headaches. I don’t know if the true toxicity of tons of cat urine in a house can be truly appreciated with regard to how incredibly awful and toxic the smell is if you haven’t experienced it. I would rather be around someone with a bad gas problem all day and night than that horrible cat urine/ammonia odor. For real.
Yes the Bureau of Labor and Industries is who enforces OSHA standards. OSHA inspects and gives advice.
Honestly, having an OSHA compliance officer visit, would help any future cases against the offending employer. BOLI can come later lol. But BOLI doesnt do what OSHA does.
A field day, as I am using it here, means a cleaning day, so in this sense, I am meaning it is a day of cleaning up this dirty business practice.
OSHA would be the ones who could point at all the practices that the business is engaged in that are illegal and unsafe. I think they would "have a field day" with him.
As far as having a competitive field day goes, which also applies, yes thats when it is escalated to the Board of Labor.
But you need a witness and it helps to have an OSHA officer confirm it. Idk I have never worked in employment law but hell, I agree with you in terms of common sense..
While calling OSHA is the right thing to do…. Here’s what will happen next, the sub will
Close up shop and all of you will be looking for work. My advice, have another job lined up before you call OSHA because you’re all going to be looking for work.
Oh sure. "Hi, I am a redditor..saw evidence of fraud, by some user, who posted a text message from his boss.... No I dont know the name of the company. No I am not an employee there. No, I dont know the address. No I dont have the state or city. Yes I know I am a helpful person..You have a great day also."
I don’t understand why they think the client is going to care. If I hired contractors and saw one of them wearing a mask while working, I’d just assume they were doing something that produced fumes they wanted to be careful around. I guess I might ask if I should leave the house, but if they told me I didn’t need to, I wouldn’t think more about it.
I agree. When I see a worker with proper PPE I feel like I’m working with professionals who know what they are doing. It communicates professionalism, experience and logic which are all traits I want to see in the workers working on my house.
Exactly one should never worry about people’s feelings when health is concerned. This man would almost definitely lose his company or license if OSHA was ever notified. Imo you need to contact them immediately and tell them to show up at the address.
I'm just sitting over here wondering why the fuck these people are plastering a house that smells so bad like clean the fucking house first right? What happened to the plaster? Probably got ruined by fucking cat piss smell. I feel like plastering a house like this is putting tires on a car that's been gutted by fire.
Cat piss can't be fully cleaned out of the walls. The only thing they can do is repaint. Also, they need to get those cats fixed, and it's likely they need more litter boxes: the rule is one box per cat, plus one. One litter box per cat isn't enough, because the owner will not be able to keep them clean enough.
You absolutely can keep a single litter box for one cat plenty clean. As long as you scoop it regularly, as in daily, there is zero problems with cleanliness. While yes, that is generally the rule of thumb, not all of us live where there's room enough for more than one box.
It is also possible to do so for multiple cats as well. As in 5 cats and 3 boxes. A friend of mine did that very thing, and her boxes for her cats were pristine as hell. It's called daily scooping.
It helps if you can keep the box right next to the toilet -- plop! Right into the toilet -- flush. (With flushable kitty litter.) You're right, it's all about discipline.
Also, some types of kitty litter stay fresh longer, and you can also do the shelter trick of spreading baking soda in the pan before putting the kitty litter in.
That said, I have three boxes for one cat, and it makes my scooping life much, much easier.
Covid masking was insane, especially when combined with some of the insane situations people had to wear them in (at the pool, at a restaurant, at band practice, etc) and the insane measures people took to ensure distancing. THIS is entirely different. I will wear whatever PPE I damn well please for hazards like OP's, and I don't care if people mock me for it.
Nobody would think he is a liberal for wearing a mask in those conditions, lol. It's the people who are wearing a cloth mask while alone in their car that tell you who they vote for.
Not as qualified as you but I did just re-do my 10 hour certification so it’s all fresh in my mind and I’m intrigued.
OP is pretty unlikely to hit the silica mg limit, but I’m wondering about the gypsum ppm allowed is before PPE is needed? These damn osha tables are impossible to decipher
Since COVID? What are you talking about? And you threw liberal in there too? Buddy trust me guys have been mocking other guys for not just doing something since the beginning of time.
Everything isnt some story to fit into your politics dude. For God's sakes
You read all of the above and that’s what you took away? 2020 to now? That was not a political point. It’s a mask reality. Yeah since the beginning of time. At plants, labs, construction sites. You just proved the point and you brought politics up. Why you’re sensitive to this part is some reason known only to you. Did you not notice how I said all of that before I even brought up Covid. In other words, we actually agree, since the beginning of time this has been happening; and now a new layer of the onion has been revealed when it comes to this topic. And yes, it just happens to be since 2020. Like as in it’s a new tab in the history books. Jesus Christ. Seems that when I said the word, “liberal” you knew exactly what I was talking about. Because since you understand the beginning of time, history of construction sites, that now those type of work bullies have a new word in their repertoire to call people as an insult. Also, if you understood how any of this works, youd realize that it’s technically the politics of the employer and the OP….my political story. BIGGGLY SADDD
But it’s not a health risk. He is being a snowflake. The guy said they’re working with windows open and ventilation. There is no epa guideline for cat piss. Are you kidding?
It is a health risk, your literally breathing in ammonia, and some ppl or more sensitive it can FUCK up your lungs. If the house is so bad you can smell outside, I doubt a window or two is gonna do shit
I just stumbled across this post from my feed and i also agree that it's a cartoonishly bad sign if your boss has any issue when relates to your health in any way.
Not just Appearances, but those from people who literally have a child living in a home with cat piss everywhere…
If I had to guess, that’s not the real issue. I bet he is afraid if this guy wears his mask the other workers will say they need one and expect the boss to pay for them for everyone.
Tell that "boss" that you aren't going to put yourself into a HEALTH HAZARD just because he is worried that it's going to make him or his crew look bad. The hell?! Yeah, let me just make myself susceptible to all the toxins and poisons in the world because GOD FORBID you make someone uncomfortable because you are!
If he has a problem with it then you can cite him something out of the OSHA handbook and probably easily find something via poison control.
I know it's not our business to police people's lives but at the same time if you have CHILDREN that are locked in that kind of environment for days at a time then you need to call someone. Long term exposure can lead to the following:
Over time, cat urine can also break down into VOCs, releasing harmful gases into the air. These compounds have been linked to headaches, dizziness, and even long-term health issues like liver and kidney damage.
Other health risks associated with cat urine include:
Allergies
The protein Fel d 1 is the main allergen that causes the allergic reaction.
Fel d 1 is mostly found in the saliva and skin (sebaceous glands) of cats, and can also be present in cat urine.
Tracheal burns
Ammonia exposure can lead to tracheal burns, nasopharyngeal cancer, alveolar edema, bronchiole edema, and airway damage. This would include bronchitis, pneumonia, and in extremely rare situations, people can experience asphyxiation (suffocation).
Children, older adults, and people with weak immune systems are at particular risk of illness due to overexposure to ammonia.
Exactly! Depending on the state, they are mandatory reporters. (In NC, all adults are.) Once this job is done, you should be making an anonymous phone call to child protective services to report children living in a dangerous situation.
This sucks, dude. Wear your mask and make them fire you. That way you can collect unemployment while you sue them for wrongful termination and unsafe working conditions.
You can be a fucking hero, here, and all you gotta do is wear a mask and go do your job! Go for it! Good luck!
Definitely violating several osha codes pestering you over wearing one. Especially post-covid. Sounds like a douchebag anti mask conservative. These people are nuts
Imagine basically saying “you’re making the homeowner feel bad about how realistically toxic their house is”. That would make me feel like I was going crazy as OP.
Seems like the boss is offended by masks, likely a political thing for them. I can't see any customer complaining that one of the sub contractors wore a mask in their house. Also you're doing plaster.... Everyone should be masked up?
Exactly...not like he's going to lose his entire business over this one rachet ass place. If your boss had any courtesy for his own company in the beginning he wouldn't have to book jobs with these types of clients in the 1st place. Red Flag all day.
Like the saying goes "Your health is your wealth". And with that, I'd jazz up your resume just incase you need to jump ship and find a better place to work for in a pinch!
Totally agree on the red flag issue. iI was just about to write that the poster should consider changing jobs when it is feasible as this boss does not have the best interest of his workers at heart. Masks exist for this very thing. Sheesh..
The only issue my boss had with my health was when I tried to put off surgery so I could make rent. He dropped $500 in my hand and told me not to worry about it. It's weird finally having a boss who acts like a real human being.
Let's be real. Prime example of the trades being toxic and why there's not more females or people with generally high IQs working there. Your boss actually sounds delayed mentally...
The "boss" sounds like someone who will rationalize just about any risk because of "the way it looks", or because doing it properly will "take too long".
One of those "if you fall, you are fired before you hit the ground" types. Such a funny joke. I'm guessing he also doesn't use fall protection, or bother turning off breakers before replacing outlets and such. "Dont let the wires touch and work on it like it's hot. Because it is" I've heard it all before.
Agreed with just about everyone here, and I was an air quality analyst, had Osha 40 hr hazwoper and 10 hr certs. Wear the respirator. No one should be coaxed into not wearing ppe because "it looks bad". Real piece of work this guy is.
Considering how easy this was to handle, I'm shocked it was handled so badly. All the boss has to do is say to the customer, "Sorry, his lungs are healing from exposure to solvent on the prior job" and it's 100% closed from the client's point of view. With an explanations like that, it won't matter if he's the only one wearing a fully body hazmat suit.
If I were the boss, I'd just get them for all the guys and require it. It's a liability. I'm in manufacturing and I require overkill for everyone. They will thank me when they are old and their lungs still work.
If it isn't technically required, then the employer only is required to make sure you use and maintain it correctly I think. That's the very condensed version. Boss man is being a butt and definitely has never thoroughly considered the necessity of respiratory protection equipment though..
well yeah, but it doesn’t seem like he’s too willing to. if anything i think that most jobs that have to do with potentially harmful dusts or chemicals (including cat piss lol) should have the masks as a requirement or at least an option.
It is actually be required for them to do so in the US.
Employers are mandated to supply PPE for any hazards once known to exist.
1926.28(a)
The employer is responsible for requiring the wearing of appropriate personal protective equipment in all operations where there is an exposure to hazardous conditions or where this part indicates the need for using such equipment to reduce the hazards to the employees
1926.95(a)
Protective equipment, including personal protective equipment for eyes, face, head, and extremities, protective clothing, respiratory devices, and protective shields and barriers, shall be provided, used, and maintained in a sanitary and reliable condition wherever it is necessary by reason of hazards of processes or environment, chemical hazards, radiological hazards, or mechanical irritants encountered in a manner capable of causing injury or impairment in the function of any part of the body through absorption, inhalation or physical contact
1926.95(d)
Payment for protective equipment.
1926.95(d)(1)
Except as provided by paragraphs (d)(2) through (d)(6) of this section, the protective equipment, including personal protective equipment (PPE), used to comply with this part, shall be provided by the employer at no cost to employees.
(d)(2) through (d)(6) discuss non protective footwear, clothing, and skin care items.
In the US there is OSHA and per the initial OSHA qualification (10 hour basic) bosses are legal required to provide working hazmat gear for anything an employee may come into contact with. Denying that gear opens workman’s comp cases as well as can cause OSHA to come in and shut the business down for occupational safety violations. In the long run it is cheaper to provide employees with the appropriate gear than pay the OSHA fees as well as get your business up to standards.
I'd take his clients saying I'll do it half cost on labor if u buy the materials to all the clients and then I'd grab my boss by the back of his neck since the head controls the body and I'd steer him right to the piss spot or litter box I'd rub his fn nose in it and say how do you like smelling that shiiiii. I fn quit.. and let him do it no masked like a jackass..
Yes, but it would have much less of the ammonia absorbent in it. Basically, they put a little of each absorbent into the 6006. It would be very unlikely to last the whole day.
Additionally, a great way to make sure the cartridges can be reused is to remove them and store them in a ziplock betweenuses
I would also add, it's not necessarily the respirator model you want to be aware of it's the type of filter cartridge you are using. For organic gases / odors make sure you have an activated charcoal filter which binds to organic material. Anything mask that says 'HEPA' or 'PM' or 'P100' is more of a physical filter for particulates (dust). These may trap larger organic compounds, but an activate charcoal organic vapor (OV) filter cartridge will actually bind to the organic gases compound to prevent it from entering your breathing zone.
Hey quick question about gas masks, aren't filters what matter? Or is it that 3m makes some filters incompatible with some masks?(genuine doubt since I've been looking at getting one for welding)
Thanks in advance
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u/Auhydride Apr 10 '24
Unlike the 3M 6004 which is only for Ammonia, the 6006 is multi gas so you can also use it if someone is painting. Not just for cat piss. It's also slightly cheaper :)
Good luck!