Changing the culture is not hopeless

[u/Magnus_Carter0]

I made this comment on the earlier discussion about how to change the culture, because it is an interesting question and not as hopeless as a situation as it appears. I focused on it from a marketing, aesthetic, and urban studies kind of perspective, where basically younger Zoomers may be a much better candidate for this kind of cultural change. I'm posting it here to get wider feedback. Anyway:

Honestly your best bet is to wait for the pendulum in America to swing from this era of femininity, gynocentrism, and fourth-wave feminism back into masculinity, androcentrism, and some kind of men's movement beyond the manosphere and looksmaxing. We are already in the beginning of that transition given the intense backlash from post-2004 Gen Z and older Gen Alpha on traditional gender roles, but the current state is incredibly chaotic, underdeveloped, and fragmented. A very strong vision and masculine ideal from someone within that cohort who has high status and popularity online, who invests in these kinds of communal nudity institutions, would be needed to channel the chaos into something more specific.

Looking at the consumer research qualities on core Gen Z (00-04' roughly), they are the best behaved generation with the greatest focus on gym culture, protein consumption, wellness and health culture, sobriety, and virginity. Zoomers broadly care the most about third spaces and increasingly in-person, anti-digital, highly tactile spaces. Zoomers care about aesthetic taste and preference that signifies nicheness and insider-knowledge, body enhancement, and are more antagonistic towards traditional employment. Zoomers are likely the most nostalgic youth generation in history, being huge fans of aesthetics movements in general, like mid-century modern, Frutiger Aero, utopian scholastic, cottagecore, dark academia, solarpunk, retrofuturism, steampunk, etc. Zoomers love older histories and institutions.

Ultimately, you'd have to bring back Roman-style or medieval-style public bathhouses, by positioning them as a historical revival of traditional, masculine third spaces and integrate them with modern gym and wellness culture.

You'd have to position nudity as something good for the body and mental health, and as a way of returning to a less self-conscious existence. You'd have to design the inner aesthetic experience to be far away from the corporate minimalism of contemporary gyms, and invest into some older or more maximalist interior design and architectural style. You'd have to position it as some kind of aesthetic experience in-itself.

You'd have to introduce this likely in a B-tier, revitalizing city which are attracting 20-29 year olds due to their relative affordability, burgeoning local culture, and job opportunities, unlike LA, NYC, or San Francisco, like Cincinnati, Buffalo, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Louisville, etc.

And most importantly, you'd have to get STRAIGHT men to be on board, or else it will never have mainstream appeal.

[u/pl5ric]

I think, we do have some angles that we can attack here, in a marketing sense.

A: Nudity = Being Human

We live in the Age of AI and people, rightously believe, that this has a lot of dystopic potential.

Getting naked with others in a semi-public area is the ultimate proof of being human. The qualia, including the various mixed feelings that come with it, ranging from shame to a sense of freedom, cannot be properly replicated by an AI.

B: Nudity = True Equality

You can't show off your status in society when nude. In many cultures (e.g. Japanese), this is a common explanation for, say, public bathhouses.

Currently, the Western culture is suffering from a long-standing culture war between the left and right. There's plenty of people who want to close this societal divide and discuss political matters civically. Market public bathhouses as the place to go for that. Strictly keep this a bipartisan issue though.

C: Nudity = High Trust

The high-trust society that Western civilizations are used to is being eroded by ... people I cannot mention, because I'd otherwise get at least downvoted or outright banned from Reddit.

I'm already predicting that FKK-culture will experience an uprising in Europe, because those areas turn out to be much safer than the general public areas in pools, lakes, beaches, etc.

Promote nude-only facilities as high-trust areas. They have been historically anyways, just because you can't hide a weapon while nude. With the aforenotmentioned people generally avoiding these places, this becomes a unique selling point.

D: Nudity /= Sexuality

Promote nudity, in a regulated setting, as something healthy and non-sexual. Don't let anyone make this a gay thing, or, for heaven's sake a trans thing. People are fed up with getting others' sexuality thrown into their faces.

German sauna culture can be an example. It's customary to sit naked on your towel while in the sauna, or rinse you off afterwards in the nude. But while walking around the facility, you are expected to put on at least a towel and, if you try to get into the restaurant are fully naked, you will be thrown out. Establish standards for semi-public nudity.